Neverwinter Online from a DDO player's perspective

[AZgreentea]

Someone on the forums was gracious enough to show me how to get a free beta key. So I downloaded the game and hopped in, just to see what DDO was up against. I got to level 19, so that will be all of the game I have seen thus far.

Things I liked

Newer Engine
Ok, not really fair to DDO since it is several years old and NWO is brand spanking new, but there is a difference between the car you have driven for a few years and the nice shiny ones on the lot. NWO can take advantage of stuff like physic engine ragdoll models for dead mobs, who crumple and tumble nicely when you kill them. Dead mobs slump against walls, slide down stairs, and even have that weird twitchy limb thing when the engine messes up the ragdoll and they dont fall right. World textures are nicer compared to DDO, and they dont have that "I'm a repeating pattern stretched over a large polygon" look that you can find in some older area's of DDO. Newer DDO area’s don’t have this issue as much. Just generally, the world of NWO plays like a more modern game. Now granted, this is not Cyrsis in an MMO, but you can tell the engine is newer.

The Map and Navigation
Lets face it, DDO's map is not normally all that useful. The first thing I noticed about NWO’s map is that it has a clock showing local time in mini mode. Admittedly not a terribly useful feature, but as someone who has to watch the clock while they play, that really helps. Also useful is the ability to place navigation markers anywhere you like, and the game guides you there. Oh, I’m not talking about a yellow or white triangle on your mini map. The game places a little sparkly trail in the world for you to follow. It would probably be really annoying for a veteran, but for a new player that is intensely helpful. It even swaps the sparkly thing if you take a wrong turn, select a different quest or waypoint, and of course when your objectives get changed. Imagine all those PUGS where you heard “How do I get there.”

Character Avatar Customization
You can do pretty much anything you want to your character. It’s another side benefit of the newer engine. DDO is limited in that things like armor skins have to be standardized for the character model so that they look right. If you go messing with the proportions, suddenly the plate armor you have on has weird gaps. In NWO, you can change all dimensions of your character from skin color, tats, scars, waist size, head size and shape, shoulders, the size of your… augments. Pretty much everything.

The Homepage
NWO has an ingame home page. It pops up every time you log in to a character. The Homepage shows you (in tabbed browsing) things like recommended content (Foundry Stuff it seems), A calendar of events (meaning official events), A Queue system like the game that shall not be named, and a place to search for Foundry content. It’s generally helpful, and gives a lot of immediate info you might want when first logging in. It’s also easy to get rid of; you simply move your character and it drops.

The Interface
In general everything in NWO felt up front. Everything I wanted to find was an ALT to leave mouse look mode and then a click away. Upcoming Foundry Events, things that were going on in that instance, my inventory. All of it a single click away. If I wanted to do something like look at my character sheet in more detail, I could easily dig to find it without going far. In DDO, everything is accessible with a keyboard command, but if you prefer the mouse (like me) you have to look around a bit.

Lore Journal
I’m such a lore nerd that I sometimes log into DDO to browse the monster manual instead of play when I only have a few minutes. While I don’t find FR lore compelling, I do like what they did in NWO. As you explore you can find little books and scrolls and stuff. Sometimes even when you just find a new area it will add to your journal. Then if you end up in a place where baddies are not constantly spawning to kill you, you can pop it open and read about the lore of the game. Want to know more about the gang leader you killed? Who does he work for? Why the hell did you just do that, aside from “because the cute elf lady told you to?” It’s all in your journal. Its like a more detailed version of the commentary you get in the quest log after completion, but more persistent since there is no repetition of quests in NWO from what I can tell.

The Queue
The queue works like you would expect it to from other games. At the end of each (basically solo) chain in an area is a final fight with a big boss. You sign up for the quest in the queue and when its full you are transported from your current location to the quest. You run the quest and when you are done, you end up back where the queue picked you up from. DDO has something similar, but not quite as elegant with the last update to the LFM panel. This is one technology I really think DDO needs, even if it is only done for Raids. I think this would really help some of the less popular raids like Titan.

Things I didnt like

Mouse look is the only way to interact with the world
Do me a favor. Sit up straight. Relax your neck. Now rotate you head randomly side to side, up and down, maybe little circles. Now do that for an hour and a half. Sick to your stomach? That’s how it feels for me to play NWO. The game is played in permanent mouse look, which for me meant every little twitch of the mouse sent the screen rotating and shifting. You cant turn it off either. My second biggest complaint about this was combat. I know people love mouse look in DDO, but I don’t use it. I always seemed to end up fighting some baddie or another off the bottom of my screen where I couldn’t see them. Who dosent love combat action you cant see? It is so much easier in DDO to get the camera into a spot where you can see the action and where you are going.

Pay Models
One of the great things I love about DDO is the reward for people who want to pay for the game, but don’t want to be VIP. With NWO the only reward for paying for the game is what you buy. It took me 4 months to decide to buy TP from Turbine for the first time, and one of my motivating factors was Premium status.

Character Customization
You roll dice to decide your starting stats, which is very D&D I suppose. And you get to pick stuff like where you came from and what deity you follow (I picked Outcast from Wheloon as a salute to the next expansion). Then for the rest of the game you follow a planned path, never deviating. Now granted, the paths in NWO put the paths in DDO to shame, but that’s because all you get is the path. The only saving grace for this is that it makes your hotbar much cleaner, in that your selection of actions and spells is very limited.

Anime Eyes and other Character Animation
I like Anime. Unfortunately, the eyes look really weird, and they don’t work with the character models. The other weird thing is the mouth on the NPC’s. Imagine, if you will, that when an NPC talks, its mouth simply opens and shuts in a steady rhythm. Kinda like a fish. No expression. No blinking. Not really moving except the mouth. Very, very creepy. I generally found the NPC movements to be plastic as they tell you what they want you to do.

Public combat
Mabar and the Cove are one thing. NWO switches back and forth between some quests that are in a private instance and some that are in a public area. I don’t care if there is no penalty when another player kills my monster. It’s just annoying, unless the monster was trouncing me and I needed help.

Public Chat
I know a healthy game comes with a lot of public chatter. I played SWG in its hay day, and that was a LOT of chatter. NWO, admittedly in beta with a bunch of new players, has a constant torrent of chatter in the chat box. It is forever moving, and its like Korthos or the Harbor on steroids in every public instance. Throw in some public instance combat, and you have the makings of a good time. Another good comparison is, imagine its like the forums constantly scrolling past your screen.

Grouping
The queue is great. The LFM panel used for the rest of the area is not. It simply lists the players email (PII, anyone?), the area, and if they want to role play. From what I could see, it was not helpful.

PII
Speaking of Personally Identifiable Information, on both the LFM panel and in the auto loot roll panel in the quest, it drops your email instead of something less traceable like your characters name. Who dosent like it when someone can email you about that loot roll they lost?

Combat and leveling
Mouse look aside, I feel a little bored in combat. Maybe I didn’t challenge myself, but I felt like I spent my time walking up to people and mashing buttons. There was just not as much tactical depth as in DDO. No pulling mobs or anything. It looks great though. Really amazing effects, though some made the whole mouse look thing worse because of the screen shaking. And good lord, could you have made it less exciting to level up, NWO? Yay! I am level 11, which is pretty much the same as lvl 10. Excitement. Plus, you cant disarm traps while in combat and rogues cant find hidden doors?

Forgotten Realms
That’s right, I am a FR hater. I find the realm and the lore rather dull and muddled. I adore Eberron. This leads into…

Overall Story
I find the overall story of NWO to be as haphazard and confusing as most FR games I have played. It feels as though I have just gotten into an area before its time to move onto another district. Without the lore journal, I would have just the thin premise that the NPC gives when they send you on their mission for my motivation. Then it’s all over, and it’s time to go back to Sgt Knox in the central district so I can be sent to the next district. The only story chain other than the intro (which totally ripped off the first part of Korthos Island with the shipwreck and Jeets) that felt any different was the Spellpluage line where I actually got to escort an NPC instead of the same set of tasks I was always getting before. Kill four of this guy in public combat. Gather or use four of these items in public. Return to the contact in this district. Enter this dungeon and kill this boss. Kill 3 of these guys….

Things I am on the fence about

Astral Diamond Exchange and Zen Market
It’s pretty clear to me now that part of the reason Turbine made the ASAH was because NWO has one. NWO also has one that uses the equivalent of TP. It dosent really bother me.

Integration of the Zen/Turbine Point store
Both games have integrated the store into the game. Its little things like a reminder here that you can buy something, or an option there that can be improved by buying it. Never has been a big deal to me, but I have been playing F2P games almost as long as I have been playing MMO’s. NWO has done a good job (like turbine) of making sure that you can get every useful thing for free. Companions, Mounts, gear, all free. Just like DDO, you buy things like extra inventory space, Items you could also spend gold on, and other short cuts like to speed up when you get things.

D&D vs PnP
If you thought DDO was nothing like PnP, then NWO is even less so. NWO is just a modern MMO set in the FR. Not that I mind at all. I, like many people, have never played a single PnP game in my life. Even people who have played WotC games, and bought WotC products such as books and merchandise have never once played a PnP game. Honestly, (and this is an opinion) if the D&D brand is to survive, this is how they are going to have to move forward. As other successful franchises by big name companies have shown, the mechanics of the game are far less important (and profitable) than the intellectual property. The Lore, the classes, the races. Most people are not interested in playing the 3.5 and before rules anymore. If they were, they would be.

Roll for Loot
Loot in NWO drops on the ground. In a party, when you pick up unidentified loot (so it isn’t just regular junk), the party is offered three options. 1. I need it. 2. Greed (I didn’t try that one but I guess it makes it more likely you get it somehow) and 3. I don’t need it. If you pick 3 you don’t roll, and if you pick 1 you roll with anyone else who picked 1. Other than the PII, I don’t mind the system. Most unidentified loot is only randomly useful anyway.

Daily Dice and Invocation
NWO has its own version of Daily Dice. Invocation can be done at certain places in the major public instances (think The Harbor and Marketplace) every hour. You get some minor rewards, and even some stuff you can use in this weird sub market that only takes coins earned in this Daily Dice type thing. On the DOWN side if you don’t use Invocation for 6 hours (in game time it seems), all of the coins you have built up so far go away, and you start over. Considering you have to constantly traipse back to an area where you can use it as part of questing, its not a big deal unless you forget. I think I like the way Daily Dice is implemented better, overall. The rewards are not as nice, but its easier to use.

Companions
This is really more of a neither here nor there. I like the way both games did hirelings, but they are different from each other for reasons that are fundamental to the game. For starters, they don’t take up a party slot, but you don’t party a lot of the time anyway. You can also only have one out at a time, and up to three with you that you can draw from. If you have more than that, you need to buy a slot from the Zen store or go to a specific NPC and get one out of your inventory to swap with one of your three. They have to be played to level up (they have to be out with you as you gain XP), and they are sent away for an ever increasing timeframe to level up (which can be accelerated with Astral shards). They can be given only limited equipment, but they are permanent (no expiring contract). You get your first one for free, and you can buy special ones in the Zen store (of course) and there is one you can earn through the Invocation daily dice thing. You can always buy more with gold. On the down side, companions in both games went to the same combat school. They are not brilliant. I named my Cleric Khyber, after my favorite server. She made it to lvl 7, which had a 12 min training timer in combat area’s. I noticed the timer for training in the main public hub was shorter.

Korean MMO
Ok, so Perfect World is Chinese. Still, I have played a lot of Korean MMO’s, and I have never liked the development path they tend to take. If you think DDO is pay to win, load up and play Ragnarok Online and ROSE Online. What do you mean I can only get the best stuff from the store!? I’m not against Perfect World, I’m just leery.

Mounts and PvP
I didn’t get to try these. It was almost the end of the beta weekend when I got to a level for a mount, and I didn’t have enough gold to buy one. I got ran over by a bunch in public, though. I didn’t try PvP, but then in the three + years I have played DDO, I have not tried PvP in DDO so… It just dosent thrill me.

Conclusion
NWO is fun enough that I will probably keep NWO on my desktop. I will probably pop in every now and again. Whether they see any money from me is another story. On the plus side, with this kind of competition, I would expect DDO to try to get very innovative in order to keep its edge. I look forward to the competition.

[psteen1]

NWO is fun enough that I will probably keep NWO on my desktop. I will probably pop in every now and again. Whether they see any money from me is another story. On the plus side, with this kind of competition, I would expect DDO to try to get very innovative in order to keep its edge. I look forward to the competition.

Your post gives a very fair assessment!

My guess is that when we learn of the official release date for NWO, Turbine will set the enhancement updates for the week before. How long has Turbine been sitting on their full armed and operational enhancement system, anyway? *tinfoil hat on*

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Your post gives a very fair assessment!

My guess is that when we learned of the official release date for NWO, Turbine will set the enhancement updates for the week before. *tinfoil hat on*

Hahaha. I've been saying that since the middle of last year...

[Missing_Minds]

Things I liked
The Queue

Things I didnt like
Public Chat

Things I am on the fence about
Integration of the Zen/Turbine Point store

DDO does have a queue system. Only they seem to use it only for PvP. I don't know if a queue system could be used if you consider how people like to have certain party make up, and unlike NWO, players are not built with self healing in mind all the time.

Do they have the chat system rigged up yet so that you can also chat to people in CO and STO yet? Just wait for the real clutter to happen. (This is something I really hope they fix if they haven't. I found it utterly farking annoying in CO.)

Do remember one thing about Zen. Zen monies you can use in ANY PW game. Turbine, even though you may have TP, you don't carry TP from game to game, it is usable only in that game. With the advent of Astral Shards (DDO) and Mithral Coins (LOTRO) it may be that AC could be getting a similar "store" such to where TP could be shared. Obviously this means that ViP of games no longer get TP but instead in game monies.

[Grosbeak07]

Conclusion
NWO is fun enough that I will probably keep NWO on my desktop. I will probably pop in every now and again. Whether they see any money from me is another story. On the plus side, with this kind of competition, I would expect DDO to try to get very innovative in order to keep its edge. I look forward to the competition.

This is very true. Not only will DDO have push their limits to keep players, NWO will too, once the luster of its release wears off (in about 4 weeks if we go by GW2 standards), so in the end both games will have come up with new stuff to keep players happy, all while WoTC pulls the strings...

[AZgreentea]

DDO does have a queue system. Only they seem to use it only for PvP. I don't know if a queue system could be used if you consider how people like to have certain party make up, and unlike NWO, players are not built with self healing in mind all the time.

Do they have the chat system rigged up yet so that you can also chat to people in CO and STO yet? Just wait for the real clutter to happen. (This is something I really hope they fix if they haven't. I found it utterly farking annoying in CO.)

Do remember one thing about Zen. Zen monies you can use in ANY PW game. Turbine, even though you may have TP, you don't carry TP from game to game, it is usable only in that game. With the advent of Astral Shards (DDO) and Mithral Coins (LOTRO) it may be that AC could be getting a similar "store" such to where TP could be shared. Obviously this means that ViP of games no longer get TP but instead in game monies.

I seem to remember something about a system in DDO that would take you to the entrance of the quest, but I cant remember how it worked anymore. I honestly havent tried out any of the new functions they implemented into the LFM panel.

That was one interesting thing about Zen. The only reason I can see them not doing that in DDO, LotRO, AC, and Turbines new game Infinite Crisis is because the billing system might not support it. I wonder if the recent system change was designed to correct that.

[Dilbon]

Roll for Loot
Loot in NWO drops on the ground. In a party, when you pick up unidentified loot (so it isn’t just regular junk), the party is offered three options. 1. I need it. 2. Greed (I didn’t try that one but I guess it makes it more likely you get it somehow) and 3. I don’t need it. If you pick 3 you don’t roll, and if you pick 1 you roll with anyone else who picked 1. Other than the PII, I don’t mind the system. Most unidentified loot is only randomly useful anyway.

Actually "greed" really means "I'm not greedy" since you can only get loot from greed roll if nobody pushes need. Anyway need/greed is a horrible mechanic that should be scrapped immediately as it only causes drama.

[Arnhelm]

Actually "greed" really means "I'm not greedy" since you can only get loot from greed roll if nobody pushes need. Anyway need/greed is a horrible mechanic that should be scrapped immediately as it only causes drama.

I agree. Need/Greed rolling caused more issues when I pugged LotRO groups than anything else. Worst mechanic for loot I've yet seen.

[psteen1]

I agree. Need/Greed rolling caused more issues when I pugged LotRO groups than anything else. Worst mechanic for loot I've yet seen.

DDO's loot mechanism is much better. Since Neverwinter won't ever do that, they should at least block people from saying "need" when the item isn't for their class.

That being said, the numerous pugs I played in during the beta were well behaved. I pretty much won every item that was for a wizard unless there was another wizard in the group.

[Chai]

I'll wait for the monasteries full of Shaolin and Ninja to show up, personally.

The one thing that attracted me to DDO immediately was the Monk class, which I played heavily in NWN and NWN2 (bet that's not a surprise to you).

I know that, being beta, this game can't accommodate everyone's tastes and desires. But based on comments here, it seems that, while it's a good game. NWO isn't going to pull me from DDO as DDO did for me for NWN and the Diablo games. I really appreciate DDO's customization and community. I guess I'm not into a lot of variety of games--your mileage may vary.

DDO was far more primitive when it first started too, and had you joined it in 2006, you may have left due to no monk class. There was no enhancement system like we see today either. When I hopped over from NWN to DDO for the first time I had that same impression of lack of PRC, and with a 10 level cap, it seemed like I could do what I wanted to in a weekend, and then get back to NWN. I do think NWO will get there, but it isnt going to be on day one.

[Thrudh]

with a 10 level cap, it seemed like I could do what I wanted to in a weekend

You didn't get to level 10 in the original DDO in a weekend. Especially not with your first character.

[Jay203]

You didn't get to level 10 in the original DDO in a weekend. Especially not with your first character.

don't forget the death penalty

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

don't forget the death penalty

Oh I liked the death penalty...

[Chai]

You didn't get to level 10 in the original DDO in a weekend. Especially not with your first character.

Incorrect.

Wasnt that tough. Everything had to be run N-H-E (there was no open directly on E option) so if youre running each quest on normal once it was easy to get to level 10. I also had friends I played with who all joined up around the same time - wasnt soloing, and there was no scaling back then either. There also wasnt BB making people bawl about having to run normal first, meaning it was easy to put up an LFM and get people to join, even if my friends I normally played with werent on.

Not to mention my NWN permadeath server penalized death far worse than DDOs death penalty the forumites of the time complained about to no end. And EQ before that had a death penalty that made DDOs look like a joke as well. I was already used focusing on quality play as a number one rule, in far tougher far more unforgiving games long before this game came out. The only thing that past incarnations of DDO was harder than, is current incarnations of DDO. Compared to older MMOs, DDO on day one was far more forgiving.

[Elation]

Incorrect.

Wasnt that tough. Everything had to be run N-H-E (there was no open directly on E option) so if youre running each quest on normal once it was easy to get to level 10. I also had friends I played with who all joined up around the same time - wasnt soloing, and there was no scaling back then either. There also wasnt BB making people bawl about having to run normal first, meaning it was easy to put up an LFM and get people to join, even if my friends I normally played with werent on.

Not to mention my NWN permadeath server penalized death far worse than DDOs death penalty the forumites of the time complained about to no end. And EQ before that had a death penalty that made DDOs look like a joke as well. I was already used focusing on quality play as a number one rule, in far tougher far more unforgiving games long before this game came out. The only thing that past incarnations of DDO was harder than, is current incarnations of DDO. Compared to older MMOs, DDO on day one was far more forgiving.

U come off sounding a bit braggish with this how about this in 2006 march it took me three week ends to get to lvl 10 my bezt weapon was a +1 longsword shock and I thought it was amazing.

[die]

Does any one here remember playing Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 for the sony playstation ? I do I still have them and that is what NwO reminds me of avery fun game that really had nothing too do with the DnD Book form of the game but was still fun as hell. Now im looking forward too Elder Scrolls online. and I have never played any of those games ive heard good things about them.

[Elation]

Does any one here remember playing Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 for the sony playstation ? I do I still have them and that is what NwO reminds me of avery fun game that really had nothing too do with the DnD Book form of the game but was still fun as hell. Now im looking forward too Elder Scrolls online. and I have never played any of those games ive heard good things about them.

How did eldar scrolls get thrown into the nwno thread lol yeah I remeber them I guess if I stretch out I might compare them some

[Chai]

U come off sounding a bit braggish with this how about this in 2006 march it took me three week ends to get to lvl 10 my bezt weapon was a +1 longsword shock and I thought it was amazing.

Naaaa its hardly bragging that I stated we had to run everything on normal due to no opener.

Im not sure what easy games people who complained DDO was too tough back then were playing before DDO, but the MMOs I played, as well as my own PD server in NWN, were far less forgiving. Having the ability to sidestep arrows and ray spells also made it alot easier.

Those of us who played those games didnt see DDO as a colossal waste of time, which is what many here claimed over the years each time they fail a quest or cant do it on its toughest difficulty at zerg pace. The death penalty and perminent debuffs were hilarious - walking into a tavern and its jam packed with people waiting out death penalties and asking for curse removals.

[Missing_Minds]

Not to mention my NWN permadeath server penalized death far worse than DDOs death penalty the forumites of the time complained about to no end.

Lets see here.... YOUR server that DID permanent death rules, penalized people for dying a lot harder than Turbine's servers that do NOT support permanent death rules.

Nice comparison.

[Chai]

Lets see here.... YOUR server that DID permanent death rules, penalized people for dying a lot harder than Turbine's servers that do NOT support permanent death rules.

Nice comparison.

Yes it is, because it clearly shows how the people I played focused on quality play and werent the ones complaining about how "tough" DDO was because it wasnt "solo friendly".

I like how you glossed over the EQ comparison as well. Lets see, a NON PD game where your character dies, and you respawn with no gear on after losing 1/3 of a level, and your corpse with the gear on it is stuck at the bottom of some dungeon somewhere, that you werent able to hang in even when geared. And now the corpse runs begin. Comared to another NON PD game, DDO of 2006 where you got xp debt you had to either play through or wait off.