Yet Another Whirling Steel Build

[tyrosinekinase]

No quicken on a caster, no maximize for mass cures, no power attack on a melee build, no 9th level spells? Elf with scimmies/helf with handwraps/human clonk steamroll over this any day of the week.

This is junk.

What does level 9 give me that's so special? Energy Drain and Implosion? Sure, it's unfortunate to lose those - but most things where it counts are immune to both of those. Not a healing toon - plan on carrying only heal. BYOH. Cleric doesn't get boosts to bludgeon and fire damage in enhancements. Human Clonk has to spend it's supposedly beneficial extra feat on longswords, FvS gets that with faith - it's like being human and you don' thave to waste the feat. I'm not arguing whether or not wraps are better - I know they are.

However, after playing whirling steel for a while, considering what you give up to take it, I think DDO really ought to add a 1.5[W] or 2[W] to the feat or just dump it so people like me don't waste the entire parties time with gimped builds.

[Kilbar]

What does WSS give that's so special? A gimped ability for the katanaz r da kewlest crowd who never grew past the emotional age of fifteen.

[DarkForte]

What does level 9 give me that's so special? Energy Drain and Implosion? Sure, it's unfortunate to lose those - but most things where it counts are immune to both of those. Not a healing toon - plan on carrying only heal. BYOH. Cleric doesn't get boosts to bludgeon and fire damage in enhancements. Human Clonk has to spend it's supposedly beneficial extra feat on longswords, FvS gets that with faith - it's like being human and you don' thave to waste the feat. I'm not arguing whether or not wraps are better - I know they are.

If I get a straight 20 hjealer fvs and cast energy drain on every mob, I'm doing more dps than your build overall. Your dps is that bad.

[voodoogroves]

You guys really don't think that walk of the sun and aligning the heavens is worth the extra monk level? Even on a build without longswords. If you're centered and using monk weapons, I don't know why anyone wouldn't go to 3 monk with 25% reduced spell cost.

There were monk 6 options in there ... But my point was not that monk 3 is bad but that if you are ignoring everything from fvs you should take a deeper splash and at least get some feats and other capabilities.

I played a wisdom dumped laser build for a long while and yes .. Energy drain is totally with it ... It was back then when there was more SR around and still is.

[tyrosinekinase]

What does WSS give that's so special? A gimped ability for the katanaz r da kewlest crowd who never grew past the emotional age of fifteen.

Oh yeah, because DDO in general is the pinnacle of emotional maturity. From the giant breasted supermodels running around half naked to Elsminster's Middle English emulations that consists of someone at DDO using search and replace to change every "you" to "ye." And ends up sounding like someone trying to emulate the KJV Bible who's never actually read anything other than RPG dialogue - like Chaucer for people with a 1st grade reading level. Or maybe the general "muhahahahahahahaha's" that eveyone knows that all Lawful Evil people in the world do.

Yep, I want my monk to have swords. All serious Buddhist warriors in history used blades of some kind because they're not stupid and recognized that swords are more effective at killing than hands 99.9% of the time - if you want to get technical on "monks" and the poor emulation of Buddhism DDO employs.

As they are, they seem to be based on contemporary Tibetan monks who are nonviolent.

Maybe at level 15 they should get a "self immolate" ability.

Not my fault DDO developers can't make Whirling Steel worth it - they're fault not mine. Now, given that, how do I make the best Whirliing Steel build possible?

[tyrosinekinase]

There were monk 6 options in there ... But my point was not that monk 3 is bad but that if you are ignoring everything from fvs you should take a deeper splash and at least get some feats and other capabilities.

I played a wisdom dumped laser build for a long while and yes .. Energy drain is totally with it ... It was back then when there was more SR around and still is.

I'll consider that - I haven't used Energy Drain much as I've never had an offensive divine. 1d4 levels doesn't really seem like that much for 50 SP. Since symbol of death can be used in a AoE - seems it would be more effective in situations that negative levels are really useful - better to apply them to large groups of enemies as I would imagine most Red Named enemies are immune to it. My Whirling Steel Clonk is a level from Energy Drain, so I'll see if it seems worth dumping the combos.

[voodoogroves]

Symbol of Death is useful if you're kiting folks through a CC effect like a dancing ball. Yes, they can stack, but ultimately on EE you don't want to kite too long as the levels come back pretty fast and you really want to avoid getting tagged.

Energy Drain is 2d4 levels right away. Bam. If you have your MM entries, see how many HP that takes off of someone like Sobrien in Claw of Vulkoor or the earth elementals in A Small Problem. It is a surprisingly non-trivial amount.

[cipherdawn]

Currently working on a Whirling Steel Build also, 13 rogue, 6 paladin, 1 monk (ED Shadowdancer)

Twin Oathblades 4[1d10] + 16d6+18 sneak attack plus other bonus (Str etc.) is the plan.

It's alot of fun so far Lvl 13

As for OP. Some builds are for Min/Max others are for a idea (Fun). Whirling Steel (Concept Build)

[samthedagger]

I would drop Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (which is a really junk feat regardless of what you are trying to do) and pick up Power Attack. I would drop Empower Spell and pick up Empower Healing Spell. This build is just feat-starved though. I would drop crit chance/multiplier enhancements and make sure you have maximum healing and light spellpower first.

I would also recommend going with Clr17/Mnk3 instead so you get 9th-level spells. But FVS is fun if you just want to melee and don't feel like you need mass heal or energy drain, but as others have pointed out, energy drain is a massive DPS spell.

I really don't see you getting a lot of mileage out of this build. There are a few cool longswords in the game, and longswords are definitely easier to come by than most other weapons. So I can see a certain element of fun. I can at least entertain the notion of someone wanting to try this as a TR divine life to spice things up. Personally, I doubt I would be able to stand playing it into epic levels though. I like flavor builds as much as anyone, but I like my flavor builds to also be somewhat competitive. Longsword monk would take really powerful gear to make up for it (gear that will be difficult to grind for with a build like this). As long as you don't have a problem with that, more power to you. As long as you are having fun, you aren't playing the game wrong. And since you don't seem to subject PUGs to this concept, I can't see any problem with trying it.

[bartharok]

Oh yeah, because DDO in general is the pinnacle of emotional maturity. From the giant breasted supermodels running around half naked to Elsminster's Middle English emulations that consists of someone at DDO using search and replace to change every "you" to "ye." And ends up sounding like someone trying to emulate the KJV Bible who's never actually read anything other than RPG dialogue - like Chaucer for people with a 1st grade reading level. Or maybe the general "muhahahahahahahaha's" that eveyone knows that all Lawful Evil people in the world do.

Yep, I want my monk to have swords. All serious Buddhist warriors in history used blades of some kind because they're not stupid and recognized that swords are more effective at killing than hands 99.9% of the time - if you want to get technical on "monks" and the poor emulation of Buddhism DDO employs.

As they are, they seem to be based on contemporary Tibetan monks who are nonviolent.

Maybe at level 15 they should get a "self immolate" ability.

Not my fault DDO developers can't make Whirling Steel worth it - they're fault not mine. Now, given that, how do I make the best Whirliing Steel build possible?

Try to stop lashing out at everybody.

The monks that are used for the monk in DDO are not buddhist monks, you know, and neither are the ones you are talking about.

[Arsont]

First off, let me prefrace this with something many people seem to forget-this is just a game. As such, the main goal is to have fun, is it not? Granted, some people *coughforumitescough* may enjoy the min-max approach, but sometimes a flavor build can be just as fun, if not more. That being said...

As long as you realize that what you're building wil never be as powerful as a pure caster or a full dps spec, I see no reason not to build it. It might aslo help to let people know when put up groups/join groups that you're not a main healer, but that's beside the point

I can understand the draw behind 17/3 fvs/monk, and if you're set on that split I'm not going to try to dissuade you from that. 17/3 could do something similar, but I'm addicted to wings, and I'm not partial to being locked to Exalted Angel to use them.

For feats, I'd suggest:
Twf chain (3 feats)
Wf:Slash
WSS
PA
Toughness
Maximize
Extend (Swap to quicken eventually; Probably by the time you get heal)

Then IC:Slash and Empower as epic feats (Maybe also Empower Heal once level cap hits). Empower is chosen over Empower Heal because you don't need the boost for mass Heal. While it does work on certain ED abilities, I don't know what you'd twist. If you did take Cocoon or whatever, the argument could be made. Either one will work though (You should have enough sp for self healing regardless).

I see you originally chose elf (I assume for the weapon enhancements and maybe flavor reasons). If you stick with elf, I'd suggest a stat spread of 16/15/14/11/8/14. I'd also suggest half-elf, with a stat spread of 15/15/16/11/8/13 and paladin dilletante. All levels to strength.

Since your goal is to be melee, you might as well dump wisdom. Maximized/empowered blade barrier will still chunk things that don't evade it, but your main use of sp is for self buffs/heals and light damage. I'd suggest picking up at least Nimbus of Light and Divine Punishment. Searing Light could fit in depending on your other spells. With the current state of ee, a divine DC caster is gimp compared to an arcane dps caster, so the focus is on spells with no save. Avenging Light could also be twisted for a cheap damage option.

For ED, I can see Grandmaster, Sentinel and Fury working in melee. I'm partial to Grandmaster, as it gives both cheap damage and a couple nice boosts. If you take Empower Heal, I'd suggest twisting Cocoon, Primal Scream and Endless Faith. Otherwise, Endless Faith, Primal Scream and Avenging Light. US would be nice for soloing. With your moderate cha, you can make good use of Confront any Foe. Twists would be Dance of Flowers, Avenging Light and Primal Scream. Fury of course is Fury. Twists would be Dance of Flowers, Avenging Light and Cocoon/Endless Faith. Exalted Angel is of course the destiny of choice if you feel a desire to babysit people.

I could give you a run-down of Enhancements, but hopefully you can figure that on your own. I'd suggest the full Smiting line, AoV II, all the toughness enhancements you can get and of course, elven damage enhancements.

Anyhow, as long as you realize the limtations of the build, I see no reason not to play this. Good luck on your endevors!

[Missing_Minds]

I would drop Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (which is a really junk feat regardless of what you are trying to do) and pick up Power Attack. I would drop Empower Spell and pick up Empower Healing Spell. This build is just feat-starved though.

So far though this diatribe of posts, this have been the only thing that has been worth while to consider in so far as your feat selection.

If you want the laser turret, keep the empower spell. I would go for power attack over oversized as you can make up for that via spell buffs and FvS longsword feats.

[unbongwah]

Well, I give the OP points for tenacity if nothing else. It takes a special kind of crazy to hold onto a bad build idea for over two years! From one flavor builder to another, I salute you, sir.

[Bacab]

So, I am tired from NyQuil and about to head to bed...and I saw a thread for a Favored Soul build...but because my eyes are semi-crossed right now...I read it different...and thought of this build...

This should be called the...

"Flavored Soul"

Since this is just a flavor build...

[SoloPhalanx]

Your best DPS would be energy drain, which you don't have as you want 17 fvs. You get no mass heal so your healing isn't really good either (a char can heal perfectly even without it, but I just don't see the OP as one of those guys).

Empower does NOT work with heal, only cures. You're starting with a low wisdom and seemingly trying to pump it for unknown reasons as your spells will consistently fail you.

You're taking Thoughness at 18.

You have no point in Tumble, and chose Jump over UMD or Balance.

You're starting with a 13 Charisma?

You're starting with a 12 Con?????????????

This thread was over in the first post, which I feel needs to be re-said:

Terrible.


Too many things wrong with it to list.

I did a feeble attempt at listing some which popped to sight, but really, even the pre-made builds Turbine lets you pick are more useful than this.

EDIT: BTW, I like flavour builds. I have a Dwarfish 18/2 bard who uses axes TWF'ing! Then again, he can stun some EE mobs, provide meaningful CC, even if not using spells, via siren's song, fascinate and irresistible dance, etc, has some moderate (read low end, but which can be considered useful in EH) DPS, can stay alive alright due to high-ish HP, etc.
If you make a flavour build with no intent of making it into anything useful, please do not post an LFM or attempt to join one. We shouldn't all be forced into suffering.

DOUBLE EDIT: You also get no wings/abundant step. Also, I REALLY hope you don't try to join parties (at least in Khyber), but if you do, please let us know you are not a healer!

[Kilbar]

Your best DPS would be energy drain, which you don't have as you want 17 fvs. You get no mass heal so your healing isn't really good either (a char can heal perfectly even without it, but I just don't see the OP as one of those guys).

Empower does NOT work with heal, only cures. You're starting with a low wisdom and seemingly trying to pump it for unknown reasons as your spells will consistently fail you.

You're taking Thoughness at 18.

You have no point in Tumble, and chose Jump over UMD or Balance.

You're starting with a 13 Charisma?

You're starting with a 12 Con?????????????

This thread was over in the first post, which I feel needs to be re-said:



I did a feeble attempt at listing some which popped to sight, but really, even the pre-made builds Turbine lets you pick are more useful than this.

BTW, I like flavour builds. I have a Dwarfish 18/2 bard who uses axes TWF'ing! Then again, he can stun some EE mobs, provide meaningful CC, even if not using spells, via siren's song, fascinate and irresistible dance, etc, has some moderate (read low end, but which can be considered useful in EH) DPS, can stay alive alright due to high-ish HP, etc.
If you make a flavour build with no intent of making it into anything useful, please do not post an LFM or attempt to join one. We shouldn't all be forced into suffering.

But monks wit swordz r kewl, yo!

[Arsont]

Your best DPS would be energy drain, which you don't have as you want 17 fvs. You get no mass heal so your healing isn't really good either (a char can heal perfectly even without it, but I just don't see the OP as one of those guys).
Agreed, losing Energy Drain would suck. Symbol of Death isn't quite as nice, but it can still be taken all the same. I'm pretty confident the OP could heal without Mass Heal (Granted, at the cost of much more sp) just fine. Might not be able to solo heal everything, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Empower does NOT work with heal, only cures. You're starting with a low wisdom and seemingly trying to pump it for unknown reasons as your spells will consistently fail you.Heal with moderate spell power and minimal heal amp is still rather useful, even without Empower Heal. As noted, no mass Heal, so I personally wouldn't place Empower Heal as a priority over Maximize/Empower. I do agree though, there's no reason for the OP to invest so much into wisdom when the DCs will still be trash. Which is why I suggested dumping it.

You're taking Thoughness at 18.
Aye, Toughness could be taken earlier. I know I always feel gimp whenever I have to take it as late as 9. This could easily be changed though.

You have no point in Tumble, and chose Jump over UMD or Balance.

You're starting with a 13 Charisma?

You're starting with a 12 Con?????????????

Agreed, I would suggest at least one point in Tumble, and would max UMD. Balance and Jump I would boost to 10, but not at the cost of UMD/Concentration. While I do have a problem with a starting 12 con on something that intends to be melee, I see no problem with a starting 13 cha; If the OP intends to use sp mainly for self buffs and dps, then a larger sp pool would be beneficial. I wouldn't bump cha much higher than this though.

This section has been ommited due largely to its offensive nature. This just seemed like a "I'm better than you" line of thought.

DOUBLE EDIT: You also get no wings/abundant step. Also, I REALLY hope you don't try to join parties (at least in Khyber), but if you do, please let us know you are not a healer!
You are correct, the OP would not get Abundant Step. However, you are spreading a bit of misinformation concerning wings. Wings are granted with lv 17 fvs. As far as I can tell (I may have missed something, feel free to correct me) the OP would prefer to go 17/3 fvs/monk.

Main responses in red.

Back to the rest of the thread:

I cannot believe that anything in this game is so hard that it requires an entire party of min/maxed toons. Sure, if you want to run a given quest as many times as fast as possible, a flavor concept build like this is pointless, and since so many posters in this thread are flaming the build, I can only assume they prefer a min/max playstyle. I respect that, but if that's the case, then quit poisoning this thread. I may be mistaken in my assessment of the situation, but I don't think so.

Anyhow, I'd love to hear from the OP on what they intend to do, and if they intend to roll this up.

[SoloPhalanx]

Main responses in red.

Back to the rest of the thread:

I cannot believe that anything in this game is so hard that it requires an entire party of min/maxed toons. Sure, if you want to run a given quest as many times as fast as possible, a flavor concept build like this is pointless, and since so many posters in this thread are flaming the build, I can only assume they prefer a min/max playstyle. I respect that, but if that's the case, then quit poisoning this thread. I may be mistaken in my assessment of the situation, but I don't think so.

Anyhow, I'd love to hear from the OP on what they intend to do, and if they intend to roll this up.

My bad on the abundant step, been too long since I've leveled a FVS it seems.

Every 2 charisma means what? 20 SP at endgame? even if it was 100, every other stat would benefit more from those points than CHA, counting INT for more skills.

[Hoglum]

I'm building a Whirling Steel build myself & it's a lot of fun. Flavor, whatever, I don't care.

I'm curious about one thing though. People keep saying wraps will way out-damage longswords on a Monk splash. Would someone please explain that?

The longsword has a better base damage & crit range. I believe the wraps have full off-hand strength damage which is in their favor. If I'm looking at a Fvs18/Mo2 vs a Cl18/Mo2, the Fvs has longsword enhancements which is in favor of the Longsword.

Better base damage, better crit range and Fvs enhancements for Longsword.

Off hand strength damage for wraps. Does this apply to PA as well?

I don't know what I'm missing but the Longswords look awfully close and I don't see an 18/2 Clonk completely out-damaging an 18/2 Fvs Mo. What is the big boost to wraps?

[Missing_Minds]

I'm curious about one thing though. People keep saying wraps will way out-damage longswords on a Monk splash. Would someone please explain that?

For starters, lets ignore stunning. That shifts things around a lot, however, stunning bosses? Can't be done. Also you are correct about off hand strength as well as power attack.

The attack speed with wraps is faster than attack speed with swords. By around... 10-15% (is that right?)
So even though the base damage (swords vs fists) will be roughly equal, because you will attack faster, you'll be able to pull off more damage per minute.
Make the weapons equivalent? Say holy and good? You'll be able to stack on that extra damage faster pulling wraps ahead more.

The turn about its the weapon combos you can have. Trying to find wounding/con killing stuff on wraps is a pain, And at low levels, having an off hand con drainer helps to kill things faster, let alone put them into a helpless state for a bit. Swords would allow him to make one weapon be a spell power weapon and the other dps. Beating DR is over all easier when concerning metal types. The ablity to swap to wraps is really great when dealing with rusties and slimes which means if the OP desires, he can farm Rainbow without carrying a scepter and still see everything (Archon on the shoulder)

So way out damage? Not really on trash. But the time variance on bosses and mini bosses could be felt. But add in spell damage and you don't notice it as much.