Monkcher gear discussion

[AtomicMew]

Lots of good discussion in this thread regarding ranged mechanics. Anyone looking to build an monkcher AA would benefit from a read through. That said, here's the plan:

3/24/2013

Helm: Helm of the Black Dragon +3 str (2)
Goggles: Intricate optics +3 wis (2)
Necklace: Gilvaenor's Necklace
Armor: Black Dragonscale Robe (1)
Trinket: Planar focus of Prowess +3 dex
Cloak: Adamantine cloak of the wolf
Belt: Min II GS HP
Ring1: Gilvaenor's Ring (20% Amp)
Ring2: Stormreaver prophecies (2)
Boots: Falling treads
Gloves: Backstabber's Gloves (1)
Bracers: Greater convalescent of superior parrying
Quiver: Quiver of Poison (Venomed Ammunition - 1d10)

Total slots (10)
Total blue slots (4)

Essential slots:
+2 good luck
+7 resistance
+14 sheltering
+35 HP

Stat boosts:
Str: +7 / +3 black dragon (1 slot)
Dex: +8 halcyon / +3 planar trinket
Con:+7/+2 (2 slots)
Wis: +8 stormreaver prophecies / +2 (1 slot)
Cha: +7/+2 (2 slot)



Here's symerith's proposed gear set from his thread:

Helm: Helm of the Blue Dragon (Draconic Mind, Wis +3, Green slot: +14PRR , Yellow slot: +2 con)
Goggles: Intricate Field Optics (Spot +20, True Seeing, +8 wisdom, Yellow Slot:+2 insight cha, Green slot: +7 resistance)
Necklace: Gilvaenor's Necklace / Epic Adehrent's Pendant as a quick swap for +2 boosts & +54 spell power for cocoon (Constitution +6, Attack Bonus +2, Arcane Archer set)
Armor: Red scale robe/Black Dragonscale Robe (Colorless slot: Globe of imperial blood (+1 exc. all stats), Blue slot: Toughness)
Trinket: Planar focus of Prowess (Str +8)
Cloak: Mithril Cloak of the Wolf (Lose 1 seeker but the +3% dodge will stack with the +4% dodge from ring for a total of +7% dodge! ( Exceptional Seeker +4, Dodge 3%, Attack Bonus +3, Diversion 20%)
Belt: Epic Spare Hand (This is the GS cha item but it has 2 slots (Doublestrike 3%, Use Magical Device +3, Riposte, Exceptional Combat Mastery +5, Staggering Blow, Disable Device +15, Open Lock +15,Blue slot: +35 HP, Colorless Slot: +7 cha)
Ring1: Gilvaenor's Ring (Dexterity +6, Exceptional Dexterity +1, Arcane Archer set, Slotted: +20% Healing Amp)
Ring2: Dun Robar Ring (+7 con, +4% dodge, +10 Tendon Slice (fixed with ranged))
Boots: Treads of Falling Shadow / Madstone Boots (Striding +30%, Ghostly, Dexterity +8, Insightful Dexterity +3)
Gloves: Backstabber's Gloves (Bluff +20, Sneak Attack +5, Exceptional Sneak Attack +3, Improved Deception, Yellow slot: +2 str)
Bracers:+45 HP minII bracers
Quiver: Quiver of Poison (Venomed Ammunition - 1d10)

Weapon: Pinion, Cloud-Piercer (Red slot: +1d10 Ice damage)

Norge's setup:

Head: Helm of Black Dragon +8 strength: +2 con, +1 exceptional to all stats
Trinket: Planar focus +3 insight strength
Goggles Dream Visor +7 con?/
Black Dragon Armor: w/+7 resistance.
Arcane Archer Neck
Cloak: Adamantine cloak of Wolf
Belt: shroud +45 hp heavy fort
Bracer: Greater Convalescent of Superior Parrying
Gloves: Backstabber gloves
Ring 1: Aracane archer ring w/20% healing amp
Ring 2: Stormreaver ring of pophecy slots: +2 wisdom, +14 physcial resistance .
Boots: Falling Treads
Quiver of Poison
Pinion w/ good slot

Scoobmx's setup:

White dragon helm +3 dex, 14 PRR, con 7
Dream visor, +2 STR
Spider-spun caparison +8 wis
Epic bracers of the hunter, greater false life
Seal of house avithoul +2 wis
Halcyon boots
Purple dragon knight gloves
Kyosho's ring, heal amp
Conc-opp 45hp belt
Mantle of the dragonfriend, globe of true imperial blood. Heavy fortification
Shintao cord
Litany of the dead
Pinion

[scoobmx]

White dragon helm +3 dex, 14 PRR, con 7
Dream visor, +2 STR
Spider-spun caparison +8 wis
Epic bracers of the hunter, greater false life
Seal of house avithoul +2 wis
Halcyon boots
Purple dragon knight gloves
Kyosho's ring, heal amp
Conc-opp 45hp belt
Mantle of the dragonfriend, globe of true imperial blood. Heavy fortification
Shintao cord
Litany of the dead
Pinion

[AtomicMew]

Apparently, the AA set bonus stacks with the pinion ranged alacrity (so worth including in any gear set).

Helm: Helm of the Black Dragon +3 dex
Goggles: Dream visor
Necklace: Gilvaenor's
Armor: Black Dragonscale Robe
Trinket: Planar focus of Prowess +3 str
Cloak: Mabar cloak
Belt: Min II HP
Ring1: Gilvaenor's 20% amp
Ring2: Dun Robar Ring (+7 str/+10 Tendon Slice)
Boots: Halcyon
Gloves: Backstabber's Gloves
Bracers:Greater convalescent bracers of superior parrying
Quiver: Quiver of Poison (Venomed Ammunition - 1d10)
Weapon: Pinion, Cloud-Piercer (Red slot: +1d10 Ice damage)

Slots:
Globe of imperial blood
+7 wis/+2 wis
+7 cha/+2 cha
+7 con/+2 con
+35 HP
+2 good luck
+7 resistance
+14 sheltering
30% striding
+200 SP

[Symerith]

Apparently, the AA set bonus stacks with the pinion ranged alacrity (so worth including in any gear set).

It does more than just stacking :P It's a huge increase in DPS, and it's probably one of the only TOD sets worth using now). And since it has been asked in the past, it stacks - tested multiple times.

Also, the reason why the dun'robar ring is included is because it provides +4% dodge and +10 tendon slice which is freaking awesome for any ranged character. With the stalker ring/halcyon, you basically gain manslayer at the cost of +1 reflex save, +10 tendon slice (great defense) & +4% dodge. There aren't many humanoids in today's "endgame" and halcyon proc is weak/you don't get hit much/you'll never run out of sp anyway.

The epic spare hand is a must have if you are UMD based without it as a class skill (so for me).

The Dream Visor is +3 DPS at the cost of TS (Giants dispell a lot.. it's good in theory but ingame, you would rather never be dispelled and lose 3 seconds where you could have shot 3 arrows..) and +1 wisdom. I think I remember Varz saying it was roughly a 3.1% increase in 10kstar DPS, and if there's one person that knows his numbers, it's him

There are many good options, it comes down to playstyle. Always does ^^

[maddmatt70]

This is the basic idea with some tweaking on augments.
Head: Helm of Black Dragon +8 strength: +2 con, +1 exceptional to all stats
Trinket: Planar focus +3 insight strength
Goggles Dream Visor +7 con?/
Black Dragon Armor: w/+7 resistance.
Arcane Archer Neck
Cloak: Adamantine cloak of Wolf
Belt: shroud +45 hp heavy fort
Bracer: Greater Convalescent of Superior Parrying
Gloves: Backstabber gloves
Ring 1: Aracane archer ring w/20% healing amp
Ring 2: Stormreaver ring of pophecy slots: +2 wisdom, +14 physcial resistance .
Boots: Falling Treads
Quiver of Poison
Pinion w/ good slot
Displacement clickies

[scoobmx]

AA set stacks but is useless if you're hasted. Max attack speed is 1.22 (haste). With pinion out AA set gives 2%

[Symerith]

AA set stacks but is useless if you're hasted. Max attack speed is 1.22 (haste). With pinion out AA set gives 2%

No What stacks is Pinion (20%) with AA set (10%). Haste gives 22% so 2% more than pinion which is why I'm always hasted

[Symerith]

This is what stacks:

enhancement: Ranger Capstone,
tod Set: AA /Deepwood Sniper
Boost: Haste Boost (enh/twist)
Enhancement: Ranged Alacrity (pinion/quiver), Haste, Armor of Speed, monk wind Stance, etc.
BAB: BAB 25/madstone/Tensers
Feats: Rapid Shot (all ranged)
ED: 10% Shiradi echoes of ancestors

[scoobmx]

This is what stacks:

enhancement: Ranger Capstone,
tod Set: AA /Deepwood Sniper
Boost: Haste Boost (enh/twist)
Enhancement: Ranged Alacrity (pinion/quiver), Haste, Armor of Speed, monk wind Stance, etc.
BAB: BAB 25/madstone/Tensers
Feats: Rapid Shot (all ranged)
ED: 10% Shiradi echoes of ancestors

I realize what stacks and doesn't stack. I'm saying there is a cap on total attack speed. You should test to confirm for example that when hasted, hitting haste action boost does nothing. Watch the animation speed on your character. Some testing that our guild and channels have done set the cap at 22%, which is the bonus Haste gives.

[Symerith]

I realize what stacks and doesn't stack. I'm saying there is a cap on total attack speed. You should test to confirm for example that when hasted, hitting haste action boost does nothing. Watch the animation speed on your character. Some testing that our guild and channels have done set the cap at 22%, which is the bonus Haste gives.

I'm not sure.. are you talking about the animation/movement speed for ranged? Or the "true" attack speed?


Edit: I think I know what you mean.. but you are wrong.
You simply can't tell with the animation speed on your character.. you should test again.
It's simple.
1. Buy 500 arrows in the marketplace.
2. Equip them
3. Haste yourself, this is 1.22% attack speed that you believe is the attack speed cap
4. For the next 1:30 min shoot arrows
5. Write down the amount of arrows shot during the time
6. Equip the AA tod set (which should be "useless" from what you are saying). Notice this raises the attack speed in the character sheet to 32% as well)
7. Reproduce the same test
8. You will have shot roughly 10% more arrows, therefore proving there is no cap to attack speed

It's tricky because it's hard to tell from the character animation.. unlike meleeing.. where you can tell directly if hasted or if speed boost is running..
The good thing though is that it's super easy to test it with ranged.

[scoobmx]

I'm not sure.. are you talking about the animation/movement speed for ranged? Or the "true" attack speed?

Animation speed for ranged attack. Here is what I did.

I went to marketplace with Pinion. It has 20% speed boost. Shoot some arrows and look at how fast your character shoots by watching the reload animation frequency.

Then I hasted myself. It is slightly faster (2%) but noticeable even without stopwatch.

OK, now I am hasted, and use action boost haste. There is no noticeable difference at all in attack speed animation.

So I suspect the maximum possible attack speed for ranged is 22%. Of course, maybe it is just haste action boost that is broken, but it works if you are under 22% (no haste maybe).

If you are below 22% everything stacks. So just Pinion and AA TOD set will get you to 22%, without haste. Maybe I have to ask some other people who did more rigorous testing but this is the idea that they told me. This is why I choose to use Kyosho's instead of Gilvaenor. Just because I can drink a haste potion and get the benefit of gilvaenor/action boost/ranger capstone.

[Symerith]

Animation speed for ranged attack. Here is what I did.

I went to marketplace with Pinion. It has 20% speed boost. Shoot some arrows and look at how fast your character shoots by watching the reload animation frequency.

Then I hasted myself. It is slightly faster (2%) but noticeable even without stopwatch.

OK, now I am hasted, and use action boost haste. There is no noticeable difference at all in attack speed animation.

So I suspect the maximum possible attack speed for ranged is 22%. Of course, maybe it is just haste action boost that is broken, but it works if you are under 22% (no haste maybe).

If you are below 22% everything stacks. So just Pinion and AA TOD set will get you to 22%, without haste. Maybe I have to ask some other people who did more rigorous testing but this is the idea that they told me. This is why I choose to use Kyosho's instead of Gilvaenor. Just because I can drink a haste potion and get the benefit of gilvaenor/action boost/ranger capstone.

I wonder how you can notice a 2% difference but not the 10% AA difference :P Personnally, I absolutely can't tell if it's 20%/22% or 32% by watching my character!
Don't trust what people tell you, because I was told the exact same thing, until I went to test myself. Just got my new build to 18 and tested 5 min ago. Confirmed. Again, there is no cap, and you can get your attack speed much higher than 22%.
Not only can you tell with the character sheet, but also from how many arrows you shot during a given time frame.

The other thing is that a ranged character benefits a lot less from attack speed than a melee, hence many people not twisting in the haste boost, or AAs w/ 2 fighter splash sticking with the Haste boost I. The only times you maximize that attack speed is for maximum burst DPS, like I did in videos.

[Symerith]

Something else to consider is that there "might" be a cap to the movement/animation speed (I can't tell, unless maybe in a video where you'd count the number of reloads for a given time and with different attack speed bonuses). But this doesn't give a cap to attack speed. There are many more different attack speeds possible on an AA than melees hence causing issues with the character animation... but w/ a high attack speed, you will notice sometimes 2 arrows are shot. So something like this: "100 99 98 97 96 95 94-93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86-85". This would make sense as 10k stars is based off the same method.

[scoobmx]

Something else to consider is that there "might" be a cap to the movement/animation speed (I can't tell, unless maybe in a video where you'd count the number of reloads for a given time and with different attack speed bonuses). But this doesn't give a cap to attack speed. There are many more different attack speeds possible on an AA than melees hence causing issues with the character animation... but w/ a high attack speed, you will notice sometimes 2 arrows are shot. So something like this: "100 99 98 97 96 95 94-93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86-85". This would make sense as 10k stars is based off the same method.

I tested this just now. I loaded a 100 stack of arrows to see if it ever skipped arrows like that. That never happened. I was hasted with AA set on which should be above the cap I propose. When shooting you always hear the 'pair' of sounds: 1-shot 2-reload. It seems to always be 1 arrow per sound, and the sounds seem to always match the animation. Each shoot-reload animation is 1 of the sounds, and they alternate. I also watched damage numbers on the training dummy. Again I don't detect any difference between haste + AA set and haste + shintao set.

Are you sure the arrow-skipping isnt just lag?

[Symerith]

I tested this just now. I loaded a 100 stack of arrows to see if it ever skipped arrows like that. That never happened. I was hasted with AA set on which should be above the cap I propose. When shooting you always hear the 'pair' of sounds: 1-shot 2-reload. It seems to always be 1 arrow per sound, and the sounds seem to always match the animation. Each shoot-reload animation is 1 of the sounds, and they alternate. I also watched damage numbers on the training dummy. Again I don't detect any difference between haste + AA set and haste + shintao set.

Are you sure the arrow-skipping isnt just lag?

Have you tried the "counting" arrow method I gave a few posts back? Works perfect for me, 10% extra arrows.

[scoobmx]

Have you tried the "counting" arrow method I gave a few posts back? Works perfect for me, 10% extra arrows.

I just performed this counting arrows test.

Test 1: Haste + Kyosho, 30 seconds.
Result: Used 37 arrows

Test 2: Haste + Gilvaenor, 30 seconds.
Result: Used 38 arrows

[Symerith]

I just performed this counting arrows test.

Test 1: Haste + Kyosho, 30 seconds.
Result: Used 37 arrows

Test 2: Haste + Gilvaenor, 30 seconds.
Result: Used 38 arrows

I did it earlier: 89 vs 97 arrows for 1:30

[scoobmx]

I did it earlier: 89 vs 97 arrows for 1:30

I just got 107 arrows for 1:30 with haste. No other stacking speed-boosting effects (abbot quiver supposed to not stack, not a ranger, no action boost, no fatesinger, shintao set). Are you using Pinion?

I'm going to ask a question nobody likes to hear, but I've been playing games for a long time and I know sometimes things like this can affect game mechanics:

What is your frame rate?

[Symerith]

I just got 107 arrows for 1:30 with haste. No other stacking speed-boosting effects (abbot quiver supposed to not stack, not a ranger, no action boost, no fatesinger, shintao set). Are you using Pinion?

I'm going to ask a question nobody likes to hear, but I've been playing games for a long time and I know sometimes things like this can affect game mechanics:

What is your frame rate?

Wow.. I have no clue how that's even possible lol.. would be nice to have other ppl than us two test this.
Level 18 so unwavering ardency w/ haste & w/ haste + aa set.

No clue about my frame rate, I won't be home until saturday night so can't tell till then, I don't like running with the number on my screen. I am absolutely sure about what stacks and what doesn't, and I am sure as well that the cap isn't at 1.22%. I will do some serious testing with thousands of arrows when I have some free time next week.

[scoobmx]

Wow.. I have no clue how that's even possible lol.. would be nice to have other ppl than us two test this.
Level 18 so unwavering ardency w/ haste & w/ haste + aa set.

No clue about my frame rate, I won't be home until saturday night so can't tell till then, I don't like running with the number on my screen. I am absolutely sure about what stacks and what doesn't, and I am sure as well that the cap isn't at 1.22%. I will do some serious testing with thousands of arrows when I have some free time next week.

Make sure you are using haste spell and not armor of speed. There is a bug with armor of speed where it can provide no attack speed bonus (but move speed bonus still works).

Also you are not at full BAB at 18 so there is a difference there... since BAB is supposed to determine base attack speed