Collector NPCs Feedback!

[Momsboys]

Not ignoring the thread at all, I've read every single post in here, and am gathering feedback. Thanks!

This^^ sounds like a MAJOR pain... Ha but we are all glad you do it! and do such a good job of it!

[rikkitikkitarvi]

As an aside instead of having treasure bags drop from kills have the item go immediately into the collectable bag if we have one. I hate having to stop to pick one up. I especially hate it on my monk to pick one up as it ends my chain.

Right now I have to decide is it worth it to break my chain to pick up that bag. Well ok I'll do it.


#!@$!@#$ I just picked up another string of prayer beads.

[Hafeal]

Jerry -

I just wanted to mention a couple of things. I have been running some new characters on new servers, with no plat, no twinking (bags etc). I think tis new system is really new player and new character to server 'unfriendly.'

*First off, collectables take up WAY too much space, the small bag you get (which holds twelve different collectables) cannot even hold everything you get in Harbor and Marketplace quests.

*Secondly, with the increase in number for conversion, I have been unable to turn in almost anything at all. I just do not get enough of any one the collectables to do so, except for two of the most common ones (prayer beads and muchrooms) - and even so the conversion rate now means I get far fewer rewards in return.

Because of #1, I just have given up on #2 - whereas before, I could at least get some useful items for *low* cost, now, I just am like "Why?" - if I feel that way, I can only imagine how a new player to the game must feel. In addition, filling your backpack and bank space with collectables feels tedious and not fun. If the idea is to provide a "quick" "extra" reward for players, especially new ones, the system has completely forsaken them.

Which begs the question - why would vets use this especially at low levels? Especially given the random nature of the reward. Generally, I would imagine most vets twink and don't need or use collectables anyway with rare exception. As for the valuable collectables (e.g., pure water, lightning splits), vets will hoard them anyway and not use this system because the collectable worth something or more valuable in other settings. When new players who might use the system gain enough xp in the game to understand its mechanics, I can only imagine their disappointment after trading a valuable set of collectables only to learn they needed it for something better later.

Overall, I like the idea and new interface, but I think the ratios need to go back to 1, 2, 3 - it was fair before OR you need to give a multiplier to collectables you find so you find them 10-20 at a time.

[Bronko]

Oh, so its not a true barter system for augments? Its random? That's dissapointing. It would be nice if I knew I four turn in 100 Drowshard for a specific augment. That would be a no brainer Turbine!

Here is that thread Battlehawke.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=411111

[Seikojin]

Here is what I was aiming for by constructive:

Old list

Harbor:
~Wash Pynoptis
~~Lvl 1 scroll - 3 Aber vials
~~Lvl 1 wand - 2 Vials of pure water
~~Random Robe with ~100 plat value (light fort, lesser false life, etc) - 1 Vial of contagion

Current collector rewards, listed by collector (incomplete for times sake)

Harbor:
~Wash Pynoptis
~~Potion of Jump - 30 Amber vials
~~Minor petrify Runestone - 30 Amber vials
~~Augment - Sapphire - 30 Amber vials + 10 Vials of pure water + 5 vials of contagion
~~Sapphire of Natural armor +1 - 4 astral shards
~~Sapphire of protection +1 - 4 astral shards
~~Sapphire of resistance +1 - 4 astral shards
~~Sapphire of resistance +2 - 4 astral shards
~~Sapphire of false life +5 - 4 astral shards
~~Sapphire of ligh fortification - 4 astral shards

Suggestions:

Harbor:
~Wash Pynoptis
~~Lvl 1 scroll - 1 astral shard
~~Lvl 1 scroll - 3 Amber vials
~~Lvl 1 wand - 1 astral shard
~~Lvl 1 wand - 2 Vials of pure water
~~Random Robe with ~100 plat value (light fort, lesser false life, etc) - 2 astral shards
~~Random Robe with ~100 plat value (light fort, lesser false life, etc) - 1 Vial of contagion
~~Random Robe with ~100 plat value (light fort, lesser false life, etc) - 4 Vials of water
~~Random Robe with ~100 plat value (light fort, lesser false life, etc) - 9 Amber vials
~~Potion of Jump (lvl 1 w/+20 jump) - 2 astral shards
~~Potion of Jump (lvl 1 w/+20 jump) - 9 Amber vials
~~Minor petrify Runestone - 2 astral shards
~~Minor petrify Runestone - 6 Vials of pure water
~~Augment - Sapphire - 2 astral shards
~~Augment - Sapphire - 3 vials of contagion
~~Sapphire of Natural armor +1 - 6 astral shards
~~Sapphire of Natural armor +1 - 9 vials of contagion
~~Sapphire of protection +1 - 6 astral shards
~~Sapphire of protection +1 - 9 vials of contagion
~~Sapphire of resistance +1 - 6 astral shards
~~Sapphire of resistance +1 - 9 vials of contagion
~~Sapphire of resistance +2 - 6 astral shards
~~Sapphire of resistance +2 - 9 vials of contagion
~~Sapphire of false life +5 - 6 astral shards
~~Sapphire of false life +5 - 9 vials of contagion
~~Sapphire of ligh fortification - 6 astral shards
~~Sapphire of ligh fortification - 9 vials of contagion

The either or for shards could be a second page essentially. Page 1 being collectables, page 2 being AS.

I know the idea is to get some raw data on the worth of these items. I totally understand the need for this. However, I think everyone in the community understands the worth of the items and will gladly and most willingfully share their opinions on the value on the forums or in game through turn ins or not turning in.

What most people are failing to see is the collectables changed in two ways. One they became a barter system. And the second is they changed the rewards. The cost is a third, but I consider it too minor to mention as a factor for the amounts. The new reward system where you pick the reward is part of the increased cost, and the rewards are significantly different and somewhat unique.

I think hoever, the rarity of said collectables is more in line with what I put down for that first collector. I could include more items, however, the collectors generally offer minor rewards; while the main utilization of collectables is for crafting. The whole thing is a loot tradeoff for players who don't want to craft. As such, I think keeping the random loot generation would be a solid feature/sell/draw of the collector.

[darthhento]

Not ignoring the thread at all, I've read every single post in here, and am gathering feedback. Thanks!

These exchange rates got plenty of nerdrage going over on Lama forums. How much more feedback about "IT'S WAY OVERPRICED" do you need? Didn't you guys read the **** Lama feedback?

[Dexol]

Its definately a step in the right direction. I actually stopped for the first time in three years to pick up collectables last night. Tonight I'm going to go check out the barters and see whats available. Anyone make a link/list yet for turn ins and awards?

Ps If this continues to expand and grow with the game and includes the high level augments, the it will be impressive.

was in post 82

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=411111

[sugrcain]

I like having the option of trading in collectibles for augments. Don't mind the randomness even, but the cost seems a little steep. Half the current cost might be reasonable, maybe even a third of the cost.

Using two characters stockpiled collectibles I traded in using random chance for a fear immunity, blindness immunity, and heavy fortification. While I received 2 fear immunity augments, getting 3 augments I wanted from random trade ins tore through *years* worth of collectables. Now I don't religiously grab every collectible pile I see, however one of those characters was created at the games original launch while the other is a few years old, over the course of that time both have clicked on enough nodes/treasure bags to have well stocked collectible bags. Neither of characters has enough of the rare collectibles for L8 topaz or sapphire augments, being able to blow through years of perhaps slow but steady growth in less than 5 minutes seems just a bit over the top to me.

You could argue I got a bunch of other augments in the process. Things is these L8 augments really aren't that useful. The things the offer are usually pretty easy to slot at lower levels (except perhaps the PRR) and honestly most of it doesn't even need to bothered with for anyone who's been playing the game for a while. I ended up with resist gems for the most part, which is a special kind of useless for anyone in a guild with a decent level.

Now I personally didn't really mind any of this, cause well, had this option not come along I probably wasn't going to do anything with those collectibles anyhow. Having done it though, seems to me the price for a random reward could be toned down some or perhaps tick up the price a bit but allow the augment selectable. Either would seem a bit more reasonable too me, yet still make the astral shard option a far more convenient choice.

[JOTMON]

The new Collectible system sucks.

Overpriced cost value turn-in.. yeah Cordovan said it was a technical issue.. but dont think anyone belives that.

Random augments... bah...why bother.

Remove the shard fragment cost from everything, it is a collectible turn-in.
Collectibles for Augments I can see....

Why have augments for Astral Shards from collectible vendors
Astral shards are just another form of DDO store currency.
we get astral shards by buying them from the DDO store and we can buy these same augments from the DDO store.
Centralize Astral Shard augment vendors and keep them separate from collectibles.

I could work with higher augment cost for the alchemical potions if they had a 10x duration.

Modorate Cure potions turn-ins is ****.. even on the old system.. revise this..make them 25 CMW potions based on the old turn-in.

BTW.. Where is the PaleMaster Collectible turn-in now?

[EnjoyTheJourney]

I'd like to add a couple more thoughts, then it's time to let this go and move on to other issues.

First, I agree with Hafeal that the new collectables system is unfriendly to new players. It's yet another meta-game to learn how to manage, while learning the core game. I recall my characters' inventory slots quickly filling up with collectables, when I was still quite new, even when trade in values were far less onerous. This led to frequent trips to collectors (dispersed all over the place) because I didn't know what would best be thrown away and what shouldn't be thrown away. To be clear, I always had the free collectables bag, and so its absence wasn't the reason for spending a big chunk of "play" time doing what amounts to Fed Ex deliveries to NPCs.

I can't see how the recent changes to collectables will improve matters for newer players.

On that note, rather than requiring that players wander all over to make deliveries to different collectors, consider putting a "general collector" in each zone, a NPC who will take all collectables and who will dole out the appropriate rewards. It adds nothing to the game to have players play "spot the collector" on the mini-map, before visiting them, and then planning out a route to make the journey more time efficient. If I enjoyed that kind of thing, then I would have become a Fed Ex driver in real life. I don't, though, and wandering around from collector to collector isn't fun.

Second, and on a similar theme, there's a longer run trend toward increasing the number and complexity of meta-games that distract from engaging in the core game. That pattern is most appealing to vets, as they only need to learn a little more when something is added or made more complex and they might appreciate the novelty. For newer players, you just make the already very steep learning curve associated with the game look more and more like trying to climb the white cliffs of Dover in subzero temperatures, while buck naked, using only one's bare hands to make the climb.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

No player who understands the game economy is going to trade "30 Singed Soarwood, 10 Charred Soarwood, 5 Lightning-Split Soarwood" for 1 random level 8 red augment. I would not trade 1 Lightning-Split Soarwood for it.

You *might* find the trade worthwhile *if* they remove the Stone of Change Alchemical Rituals and the Lightning Split Soarwood, Fragrant Drowshoods etc will have the same value as Prayer Beads and Blades of the Dark Six.

Although Prayer Beads would arguably be more valuable due to Cannith Crafting recipes so...

/shrug

[Hafeal]

What most people are failing to see is the collectables changed in two ways. One they became a barter system.

I do not understand your point - the system already was a barter system and I think that everyone understands it exactly. The fact that you can choose an item or a random shard is addition to choice of the barter system which, to me, seems plain.

And the second is they changed the rewards.

Well, yeah - which people were happy about UNTIL

The cost is a third

the COST was changed on lama. the COST is the problem. If the cost were the same (given the current drop rate), the system was lauded on Lama. It is the fact that they appeared to have used a 10x multiplier on a revision pass and the COST is not worth the random nature of the reward.

[HungarianRhapsody]

IMO, the random factor is a holdover from the old system. During initial design, someone probably thought it would be cool to make collectibles like mini-lotto tickets. Maybe someone does find that more fun, but Battlehawke and I don't.

I envision my battle-weary hero, still spattered with Splinterskull blood Bartering with Bowdin in House Phiarlan.

Skookumchuk: "I have returned from the Tangleroot. I know you are on an expert on soarwood. What do you make of this?"

Bowdin: (whistles) "That's a beauty there. Don't see many of those. Usually when lightning strikes a soar tree, it burns. But in the case of your specimen, the wood split cleanly open.
"Look here--you can see there is some light scorching on the outside, but inside, the energy of the lightning super-heated the soarwood sap so quickly it burst the wood open and left the inside with a dazzling varnish of crystalized soarwood sap that shines like Starfire!
"These are highly, HIGHLY sought after and so darned rare that they are almost priceless. Collectors like me prize them for their uncanny natural beauty. Crafters have used them since time immortal to imbue magic items with a unique protective alchemical property.
"Yes indeedy. You've found yourself a real treasure there. Something like that, why a seller can pretty much name their own price. I won't lie and say I'm not interested, because I am interested--very interested. It's true I don't have the huge bank roll needed to buy such a rare and valuable item--only the Coin Lords or some Epic Adventures have that kind of money. But, I am flattered and excited you came to me first. I won't let the opportunity escape me so I'm going to make you an offer you CAN'T refuse--I'll TRADE you for it!
"If you give me your Lightning-Split Soarwood, I will reach into my bag over there (it used be full of old dresses but prom season you know)... I say, I'll reach into my bag of augment gems over there and pull out something you can have in exchange. (No you can't have the BAG, son, so don't even ask.) You don't know what it will be. Even I don't know what it will be. But the mystery, the excitement, that will be FUN!
"What do you say? Do we have a trade?"

Skookumchuk: "...
"...
"...
"...I'll just put it on the auction house for a few million gold pieces."

This is Dungeons and Dragons Online. Any backstory that involves a person giving us a choice of things as a reward makes me wonder why we don't just kill him and take all of it.

[HungarianRhapsody]

What most people are failing to see is the collectables changed in two ways. One they became a barter system. And the second is they changed the rewards. The cost is a third, but I consider it too minor to mention as a factor for the amounts. The new reward system where you pick the reward is part of the increased cost, and the rewards are significantly different and somewhat unique.

Most people like the change to barter system and the change to the rewards.

A small increase in cost could have been appropriate. The great leap forward in prices was not appropriate. The rewards aren't unique and they aren't worth the effort of walking up to the turn-in vendors, much less the effort involved in actually picking up collectables.

[Seikojin]

I do not understand your point - the system already was a barter system and I think that everyone understands it exactly. The fact that you can choose an item or a random shard is addition to choice of the barter system which, to me, seems plain.

Well, yeah - which people were happy about UNTIL

the COST was changed on lama. the COST is the problem. If the cost were the same (given the current drop rate), the system was lauded on Lama. It is the fact that they appeared to have used a 10x multiplier on a revision pass and the COST is not worth the random nature of the reward.

The system was a dialog based system. Changing it from a random every turn in to a system where the player can choose the reward (even if some is random) will inherently have a higher cost.

Most people like the change to barter system and the change to the rewards.

A small increase in cost could have been appropriate. The great leap forward in prices was not appropriate. The rewards aren't unique and they aren't worth the effort of walking up to the turn-in vendors, much less the effort involved in actually picking up collectables.

And the cost I completely agree is wrong; hence this topic where we are offering up suggestions on how to remedy that.

To me the cost is soo high because of the changes to the system, which I outlined. It is a standard change to incite a response.

I stopped collecting collectables for the most part over a year ago because they aren't worth turning in, and their cost for crafting gear is low enough, that I will have enough to craft with when I go to level crafting and actually make gear. So I do not have nearly as many as is needed for some of these turn ins. If I nabbed every collectable, every time they dropped, I would have a few thousand of the commons, almost a thousand uncommons, and maybe a few hundred rares.

There are a lot of people who do vaccuum every drop. So I can see turns ins at the current exchange being out there. But the thousands of commons, a thousand uncommons, and hundreds of rares is not the true players median amount.

I think the current rewards list is ok, but not worth going for still. Even if the cos was what I suggested or lower.

I think the shard cost is irrelevant. I can see the ploy of making a cash to game content market. Makes fiscal sense in a free to play game world. I have a professional opinion that differs from this strategy, but I can see the reasons behind it. Not my call to make.

[Gremmlynn]

Someone seems to have missed the difference in availability between node only collectables and those that also drop from mobs.

[Hendrik]

The Barter Box for Collectables is the greatest part of the change.

The high cost for collectables is the worse.

Like many, I think the cost for the 'normal' collectables needs to be reduced for it to even be used at all.

Far as Augments, a set price for a random is ok by me. However, many do not want to take a chance at a random Augment. Leave the set price for random in but offer, in addition, a higher price turn in for a far less random choice. Thinking for the less random, have it set into 'classes'. Example, random Spell Power of 90. This way the player can pay a higher price but for a smaller random choice at what they are after.

Hard part might be putting augments into appropriate classes as it were to make sense. Combat, Defense, Casting, and Misc?

Hope that is clear.

[Alavatar]

Not ignoring the thread at all, I've read every single post in here, and am gathering feedback. Thanks!

I apologize for what I wrote and I didn't mean to shoot the messenger.

But, my frustration is in the fact that:

1. This topic was discussed and nerdraged on in the Lammania forums without much reassurance from Turbine about the future of the mechanic. The only thing we, the community, received was a generic "we told some people".
2. These "Official Discussions" seem to get some Turbine attention for a month, maybe two, then they don't get any updates, resolution, or closure which often gives the community the perception that the "discussion" is either ignored or not a discussion anymore. Especially when the things that were discussed, or even the topic itself, is not implemented (i.e. Enhancement revamp, Difficulty, Renown Changes, etc.) and just left hanging.

[Alavatar]

Speaking of communication and resolution, FoS has said that Collectible Turn-In prices are being "corrected" for Update 18.

It is not. The cost increases seen during Lamannia preview were to address augments being too cheap. However, we were already in an internal code freeze for files in the patch when the need to increase the Augment costs was seen, so it had to be temporarily done in a way that affected all items on a given collector. That's the technical limitation that Cordovan mentioned here.

Prices on the other items on the collectors are corrected to (sane) amounts in Update 18, which is our next planned game update. This is in addition to new items to further flesh out collector inventories.

What is nice is that the technical limitation was further expanded upon; still sounds more like a schedule limitation, but I guess it is a potato <-> potato thing.

[Starla70]

As a person who collects everything, I really do not like this change. I too, have been playing for almost 3 years. Most of the turn in's there is no way for me to ever gets to turn in much of anything. So now what is the point of turn in's?