You mean I just spent all my shards??? Really? Daily Dice

[Postumus]

That is a fantastic point.

Since these things cost money, and since this is a game played by children, paid for by parents, and since the credit cards are tied to the account, all transactions should have a parental off-switch (and password).

In fact, we should be able to turn off sales entirely, to make it child-friendly.

Don't let the kids have acounts tied to credit cards perhaps? Just a thought.

[Battlehawke]

Your kids account doesn't have a credit card attached, right? Assuming that's the case... They can't spend any real money on the DD, only whatever shards they have freely acquired... So where's the issue?

I don't really find any fun in being completly f2p, nor do my kids or anyone else who plays DDO. My kids play it to enjoy it just like everyone else. They do want to play and enjoy the game to its fullest. Why wouldn't it make sense to be able to control their spending? Would my only choice be to make them be 100% f2p or just not let them play anymore? Wouldn't that be counterproductive to what Turbine is trying to do here?

Clearly there are enough posts on the forums annotating a lot of peoples displeasure with whats happening here. Does it offend other people or effect their gameplay if I turn my "daily roll" off? It doesn't seem that complicated to me, nor does it seem obtrusive or counterproductive.

[Battlehawke]

Don't let the kids have acounts tied to credit cards perhaps? Just a thought.

Maybe I could just lock them up in the basement for the rest of their lives and feed them crackers and water. I could limit them to playing "rock, paper, scissors".

Maybe you should get back in your time machine and come back to 2013!

[gerardIII]

So I went in, saw the Daily Dice, and rolled a couple golds...

Then on the third or fourth character I was told "You do not have enough shards".

I had no idea I was spending shards. Just how many did I spend and when?

Also, I can supposedly put todays roll toward a gold instead of rolling a silver, how in the world do I know how much I am putting toward the gold and how much I need?

I had no intention of spending shards at least without my permission.

It's a minor thing I guess, but I feel as if all my shards were just taken without my permission, especially if these shards are something you "buy" with real $$ in the end.

I read the Release Notes after patches, hotfixes and updates so I know what's going on.

[GeneFrenkle]

The only use I find for the shards is on a L20+ character that I need to do a feat swap. Paying 15 shards is faster and cheaper than trying to acquire a flawless siberys dragonshard + 80k plat each time.

Other than that the shards are 100% useless as far as I'm concerned. I don't need them for anything in the game, I won't be auctioning anything for them, nor will I buy anything which is being auctioned for shards.

[Magic_Emperor]

Why is it I get blamed for everything?

It's all your fault you get blamed for everything.

ijk btw

[Magic_Emperor]

oh and on topic:

There should be a pop up to warn you if your about to spend shards (y/n option).
Whether it's to repair your armor or this dice roll or whatever.

[Mubjon]

Before I state my problem with Daily Dice, I want to also state that although highly unlikely the below scenario will happen, it CAN happen, and should be considered before it does happen by implementing limits and safeguards to Daily Dice "spins".

Daily dice is a form of gambling, it is a game of chance implemented through a randomly generated number to win a prize. Granted we get a free daily spin, but that's the free "crack" sample from the "crack dealer"...the fist one is always free. Now if you have self control you can stop at that free spin, or if you have some spare shards from the free shards we got a few weeks back (from the DDO store there was a coupon code from 20 free shards) or if you earned any through the ASAH, it's really not that big of a deal. You didn't spend any REAL cash money... you are just using an in game currency.

However there are people out there (not just kids, adults as well) who have no form of control when it comes to gambling type activties involving REAL money... this might be an in game implementation of a gambling feature, but it does involve real money purchasses in order to win in game items if you choose to do so.

No matter how much you dress it up, it's still gambling. The fact that it's not transparent, but requires several layers of transaction to convert cash -> shards -> daily dice spins is deceiving and deceitful as there is no real line of sight into how much money you are spending every time you spend a shard to gamble for a prize. Similar to the way a casion makes you convert your cash into chips. You don't think of it as money while you are gambling, just colored chips. It's a psychological type illusion to keep you gambling and not thinking about how much money you are spending.

I can just see it now, some teenage kid has a VIP subscription with Mom or Dad's credit card setup for recurring payments and so they can buy TPs from time to time, they decide, what the heck I will just buy a few shards to get that really good item I can "daily dice" for...so they buy some shards on the credit card and start "gambling", next thing you know the shards are gone, the item was not obtained and they buy more shards...

Next month Mom or Dad get's the Credit Card bill and sees a series of transactions from Turbine totalling a large amount of money because there was no line of sight or control into what was actually happening... serious...this is acceptable? There should be some safe guards and controls in place to avoid this type of situation because it will happen sooner or later.

Ethical and Moraly acceptable ? No (Turbine is preying on addiction and people's lack of control while implementing a complex and confusing interface and series of transactions to enable the behaviour) ... Profitable? Yes, otherwise they wouldn't have done it.

If the spins cost nothing and could only be obtained through in game activities, quests, turn ins, etc .. I would have no problems with this new feature if it did not involve REAL cash money.

Problem is that Daily Dice does involve REAL cash money and it appears that Turbine has gone through great lengths to cover that aspect up by layering the trasnactions in the same way that a money launderer would to make his ill gotten money clean through obscurity and complexity. The interface is not very intuitive and there is no line of site into the TRUE cost of your Daily Dice spin in terms of DOLLARS.

Open for discussion, opinions, counter arguments...but make this thread visibile and recognised so it will hopefully get the right attention from a Turbine staff member who can comment on the issue. I hope this thread will get some visibility and attention to at least acknowledge my concerns.

1) It is not gambling, this form of in game lotteries have been around since the beginning of online gaming time and not one single company that has put out a game has been successful sued as violating gambling laws in any state or country to date.

2) A good parent would not let the kid have access to a credit card without oversight. You are just asking for trouble if you give a credit card to your kid and not pay attention to what they are doing with it daily. Seriously, who are these deluded parents that believe their little crumbmuncher will be responsible with a credit card?

[Mubjon]

Maybe I could just lock them up in the basement for the rest of their lives and feed them crackers and water. I could limit them to playing "rock, paper, scissors".

Maybe you should get back in your time machine and come back to 2013!

Or maybe, just maybe instead of leaving a line of credit available to the little crumb munchers you make them do chores and give them the choice of having that money earned go towards their game or in their pocket? You know, make them be premimum accounts and not risk having a credit card tied to their account that you cannot afford to pay the bill on if they go hogwhile.

My son takes the cash every single time and remains f2p on this game. But, then he just like having a sorc to run around with and toss fire balls and meteors at everything.

[Postumus]

Maybe I could just lock them up in the basement for the rest of their lives and feed them crackers and water. I could limit them to playing "rock, paper, scissors".

ORRRRRR.... you could stop saying silly, over the top things and just set them up with their own free to play accounts that aren't linked to your credit cards.

Here is some info directly from the turbine.com website:

Do I Need A Credit Card to Play the Game?

Absolutely not. The only times you'll ever have to wield your plastic, or use an alternate payment method, is when purchasing Turbine Points at the DDO Store or signing up for a VIP subscription.

What's that you say? You want your chillens to have access to the entire game? Well Turbine's thought that through as well:

We also have alternative payment methods available if you wish to purchase points or VIP time without ever using a credit card.

Does it get any easier than a TP code?

[GeneFrenkle]

1) It is not gambling, this form of in game lotteries have been around since the beginning of online gaming time and not one single company that has put out a game has been successful sued as violating gambling laws in any state or country to date.

Or maybe it's just a matter of time? Perhaps the mechanism as Turbine has implemented it will stimulate the brain receptors in a gambling addict in the same way that slot machines or other gambling games do? I think it's too early to know whether this in game mechanism will cause problems or not.
I see this as similar to a slot machine where there is a small chance at a big jackpot. The fact that they went as far as making it "Gold" and "Silver" leads me to believe that the intention is to tap into that line of subconscious attraction that gambling has on people. They wouldn't have spent time and money implementing this feature if they didn't think it would pay off. The intention is to get people to spend more of their real money.
Why shouldn't they give it a try, it's worked for the casinos in Las Vegas for more than half a century.

[Robai]

Just another trap by greedy Turbine

[Derailment]

1) It is not gambling, this form of in game lotteries have been around since the beginning of online gaming time and not one single company that has put out a game has been successful sued as violating gambling laws in any state or country to date.

Chinese Diablo3 players says hello.

[sdrocky]

daily dice = marketing wan k e r cash grab.

solution. don't get sucked in to the astral shard purchase scam. no astral shards = no second roll = not feeling ripped off.

Realy Turbine could you be less subtle about shanking people.

The marketing idiot that came up with this really needs to have a blunt lead object inserted in his head at super sonic speeds.

[Silken-Akira]

My 2 cents.
-yes, it is a form of gambling and yes some people will have a addicting problem with it. Bad, not more than in real life adult people should handle their problems otherwise, though I guess. I didn't see them banning people to buy more than 1 beer because there are addicts out there.
-Should you be able to turn off the additional rolls. Yes it would be decent to do that from Turbine, but then again most companies lack the decent trait so maybe this expecting a bit much.
-As far as the concern from people with kids. I have to agree with them the post who says most about it at this moment does know the game itself, but I can assure you there are lots of youngsters around where the parents know a lot less than their kids and have to rely on their input. Again turbine could bring up the effort and try to help these people (and there are indeed already ways to do that) but will they make an effort in this to do it transparant or easy(I don't expect them to).
So as long there is no official Turbine person showing up on this thread saying to heard our concern and are working on satisfying this need. It is just us the users venting our frustration against each other and a blind wall.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Maybe I could just lock them up in the basement for the rest of their lives and feed them crackers and water. I could limit them to playing "rock, paper, scissors".

Maybe you should get back in your time machine and come back to 2013!

Alternatively, you could attach those accounts to prepaid credit cards. Let them learn to budget.

[Perceval]

Maybe I could just lock them up in the basement for the rest of their lives and feed them crackers and water. I could limit them to playing "rock, paper, scissors".

Maybe you should get back in your time machine and come back to 2013!

Or maybe, just maybe, you could put down the beer, turn of the TV and pay attention to *** your kids are doing and not expect someone or something else to be your babysitter ? Just a thought

[Hokiewa]

Or maybe, just maybe, you could put down the beer, turn of the TV and pay attention to *** your kids are doing and not expect someone or something else to be your babysitter ? Just a thought

Have you been watching too much of "The Guild"....?

[Cauthey]

So I went in, saw the Daily Dice, and rolled a couple golds...

Then on the third or fourth character I was told "You do not have enough shards".

I had no idea I was spending shards. Just how many did I spend and when?

Also, I can supposedly put todays roll toward a gold instead of rolling a silver, how in the world do I know how much I am putting toward the gold and how much I need?

I had no intention of spending shards at least without my permission.

It's a minor thing I guess, but I feel as if all my shards were just taken without my permission, especially if these shards are something you "buy" with real $$ in the end.

Me too.

Fortunately, I did not keep clicking.

Put in a ticket and see if you are able to get them back. I did. First ticket was closed, with no response and no Astral Shards returned.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=412242

[My2Cents]

I read the Release Notes after patches, hotfixes and updates so I know what's going on.

I read them, and I know what's going on.

You do not know me, you do not know my life experience or expertise, and I chose not to go into substantial detail about my views on the design of the interface, the importance of careful assessment of the release of a feature of this nature, the aspects of quality assurance that are different with this type of interface than in the past, the assumptions a DDO user might make based on specific previous DDO experience with other NPCs and events, the need for a different type of care to be taken when dealing with options where a user can quickly lose "in game currency" at the push of a button, various human factors, business decisions, etc..etc..

I am not arrogant enough to believe that my opinion is any more important to Turbine than any of the other millions of users. But as a user I do enjoy the privilege of starting discussions I think are of merit, or even venting when I wish to do so.

In my view, simply responding to what i feel is an important new feature with important ramifications by both making assumptions about the actions of a poster and giving your assessment of their level of knowledge may make you feel better, but in my opinion does not add anything of qualitative value to the discussion.

Of course this happens all the time in these forums. This time I chose to respond - maybe only because my own venting will help me get through a difficult day.