State of the game

[Forzah]

Cleric 17/Monk 2/Ranger 1 - 11 feats in total, including epic (and assuming not human):

Toughness, Quicken spell, empower healing
Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, IC:Slashing, Overwhelming critical

Swap OC for IC: Ranged if you care more about consistent damage output than big numbers (particularly if in LD).

You don't need a deep splash, you just need to leverage the 1st ranger level. TWF is a huge trap unless you have the feats to make it work, THF is the way to go even if you have 1 or 2 free TWF feats from ranger.

After reading this, I'll probably lesser my obsolete FvS into 17fvs/2monk/1ranger

[voodoogroves]

What stops me is that I know what the expectation would be from pugs.

PM toy

Ranger 1 / Monk 2 / Wizard 17
Ranger: Bow Strength
Monk: Toughness, PA
Normal: Point Blank, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Cleave, Great cleave, GSF Necro, Improved Crit
Wizard: Quicken, Maximize, SF Necro, Extend/Empower
Human: Extra feat, Mental Toughness for Wraith Form maybe
Helf: Rogue for DPS or Pally dilly to shore up your weaknesses.

You could splash another level. I bet you could work out a way to fit AA in on a Elf/Helf if you tried hard.


Beyond cleaving and manyshot has Power Word Stun, OID, Armor-based PRR, DoTs, AoEs, Displace, Haste, Rage, Tensers, Prismatics, etc.

... and likely an expectation from your party members that you'll do CC or other stuff.

[voodoogroves]

After reading this, I'll probably lesser my obsolete FvS into 17fvs/2monk/1ranger

Lose the Radiant Aura, Mass Heal but get ... *Wings* ;-)

[Loriac]

Until / unless manyshot is nerfed, 2Monk/1Ranger is one of the best melee splashes in the game right now. Building my juggernaut variant a couple of months ago opened my eyes to what 1 Ranger brings; whilst usually one thinks of fighter 1 or 2 as adding 1-2 feats, for any build that looks to have manyshot, ranger 1 or 2 beats out fighter 1 or 2 by a country mile.

I'd also really like to get a 2Rogue/1Ranger splash to work, as it allows you to be true neutral, keeps evasion and the same reflex saves as the monk variant, and gives you tier 1 haste boost on top (along with full umd).

However, the lack of feats vs. the monk is the stretch too far for that option (though having said that, a human variant may be workable in some cases).

I actually prefer the cleric variant to the wizard one in all honesty, and again, its about expectations management. A wizard is expected to be able to cc, and a melee wizard simply can't (as its dc reliant). A cleric is expected to heal, and provided you have 17 levels + quicken + empower healing, you can throw mass heals around if you're ever in a situation where you have to play nannybot to a bunch of melee in a raid.


Edit:

Lose the Radiant Aura, Mass Heal but get ... *Wings* ;-)

True, but a huge caveat is that a cleric 17 is fully raid heal capable, but a 17 FVS lacks mass heal. This may be a non-issue for an individual player, but its definitely something to consider one way or the other before deciding which to build.

[voodoogroves]

True, but a huge caveat is that a cleric 17 is fully raid heal capable, but a 17 FVS lacks mass heal. This may be a non-issue for an individual player, but its definitely something to consider one way or the other before deciding which to build.

Right - this was my point above. The Juggernaut can do the traps and buffs; that expectation isn't the same for someone w/ a Cleric, Wizard, FVS icon.

[Steveohio]

Having mained healers with only lvl8 spells (16fvs, 15clr) you really don't lose any raid healing ability outside of mana effeciency, however you also are not relegated to piking in the back and just tossing heals.

Any group worth anything anymore doesn't require more healing than that.

[voodoogroves]

Having mained healers with only lvl8 spells (16fvs, 15clr) you really don't lose any raid healing ability outside of mana effeciency, however you also are not relegated to piking in the back and just tossing heals.

Any group worth anything anymore doesn't require more healing than that.

Yeah but you know first hand the expectation, questioning and needling that comes from a splash on something like a FVS ... that an Arti avoids.

[Maelodic]

I love this thread so far. You guys are spot on. Half the time I want to roll a melee caster and people tell me it'll be a gimp because it's not a full on DC caster.

Utility for the fricken win. My current build I'm working on is the LightBlade in my siggy (14 FvS/6 Monk) and I am loving it so far. I work fine as a backup healer, and do fantastic as a melee.

[Viconiax]

I've explained what the problems with dc casting are elsewhere, but basically I've yet to see anyone instakill anything well in EE GH (or High Road for that matter) without massive debuffing. When you've to use energy drain and possibly other debuffs before every spell then no, you're not doing fine.

DPS is also massively more important now than it was before and that's not really something dc casters shine in.



If you've no idea how to play then sure. If you do know how to play then such problems do not exist.



It's rather misleadingly written, most of those builds were not OP, simply very solid.

I do know how to play an arcane, i played an arcane for 4-5 years in ddo, i also played a shiradi arcane before. Just remember, every classes/builds have their weakness.

Edit: There is also a spell that actually didn't require massive debuff before instant kill, it called powerword: kill
I don't think turbine going to nerf ED anymore though, they already tried once by making adrenaline not work with ranger, in the end, they revert their change back anyway. And it easier to try to instant kill casters than melee, cc the melee instead of try to instant kill them, then let the melee get onto the mobs you cc, make your life much easier. If most of the people complain that EE GH is too hard because they're trying to solo them, that's not because it is turbine fault or a class is gimp because dnd/ddo is based on teamwork. Every arcanes can solo quest easy with chunking pots, the different is, can you run EE without recalling out and chunk pot? It took more stragety and skill more than just spamming few spells.

[undercover69]

`No word about the druid? There's no redeeming feature that takes the druid near top at least?

[Kmnh]

`No word about the druid? There's no redeeming feature that takes the druid near top at least?

You can go 17 druid 2 monk 1 ranger and abuse the manyshot/adrenaline bug too :P

[voodoogroves]

`No word about the druid? There's no redeeming feature that takes the druid near top at least?

Being WIS based, Druid is primed for Grandmaster of Flowers ED and Everything is Nothing, built on top of the already stellar (and character-level scaling Stunning Fist).

[Viisari]

I do know how to play an arcane, i played an arcane for 4-5 years in ddo, i also played a shiradi arcane before. Just remember, every classes/builds have their weakness.

My first character was a wizard years ago and I've taken him through all kinds of nerfs and buffs. With how the game is currently set up dc casting is anything but worth it unless you only run EH and below. While it technically still "works" it's all but pointless to be a dc caster because of the cost/benefit -ratio is so terrible.

This is also the reason why the number of palemasters on Thelanis is on a massive decline while the number of wf sorcs and wizards is climbing steadily, the name of the game now is get damage or go home.

Edit: There is also a spell that actually didn't require massive debuff before instant kill, it called powerword: kill

Which has a 3 minute cooldown and isn't a dc spell in the first place.

I don't think turbine going to nerf ED anymore though, they already tried once by making adrenaline not work with ranger, in the end, they revert their change back anyway.

To fix an amusing exploit. That change didn't affect only ranged combat, it also removed the ability to use adrenaline with tactical feats. In other words it didn't have anything to do with ranged combat specifically.

And it easier to try to instant kill casters than melee, cc the melee instead of try to instant kill them, then let the melee get onto the mobs you cc, make your life much easier.

While holds are nice they bring little else to the table. Melees and bow users now have access to no-fail cc abilities (that make ALL mobs helpless, including undead and constructs) and can kill EE mobs in seconds. Holds are not needed and if you can't bring at least as much dps to the group as these guys would then your spot in the group is detrimental to speed and success.

If most of the people complain that EE GH is too hard because they're trying to solo them, that's not because it is turbine fault or a class is gimp because dnd/ddo is based on teamwork.

See, the thing is... Epic Elites aren't hard. They're **** easy.

Every arcanes can solo quest easy with chunking pots, the different is, can you run EE without recalling out and chunk pot? It took more stragety and skill more than just spamming few spells.

You know I made this a while ago for another thread. But I guess it'll serve here.

[Viconiax]

My first character was a wizard years ago and I've taken him through all kinds of nerfs and buffs. With how the game is currently set up dc casting is anything but worth it unless you only run EH and below. While it technically still "works" it's all but pointless to be a dc caster because of the cost/benefit -ratio is so terrible.

This is also the reason why the number of palemasters on Thelanis is on a massive decline while the number of wf sorcs and wizards is climbing steadily, the name of the game now is get damage or go home.



Which has a 3 minute cooldown and isn't a dc spell in the first place.



To fix an amusing exploit. That change didn't affect only ranged combat, it also removed the ability to use adrenaline with tactical feats. In other words it didn't have anything to do with ranged combat specifically.



While holds are nice they bring little else to the table. Melees and bow users now have access to no-fail cc abilities (that make ALL mobs helpless, including undead and constructs) and can kill EE mobs in seconds. Holds are not needed and if you can't bring at least as much dps to the group as these guys would then your spot in the group is detrimental to speed and success.



See, the thing is... Epic Elites aren't hard. They're **** easy.



You know I made this a while ago for another thread. But I guess it'll serve here.

Haven't seen much decline of PM on Argo lately but yea I know what you're saying, instant kill require much more sp in EE GH now.

But pwk still do their job. :P

And they still haven't nerf adrenaline with ranged yet again...

Specialize in electric/force and go shiradi, it will max your DPS or choose draconic, it help with DPS a lot also

And ikr, EE GH is not that hard, idk why people complain about it.

Holly jolly good old mario jumping skill! Nice vid although if they nerf shiradi though (I don't think they will) but if they do, most shiradi sorc going to be useless now...and probably have to rebuilt their toon because they all depend on 1 epic destinies...

[Viisari]

Holly jolly good old mario jumping skill! Nice vid although if they nerf shiradi though (I don't think they will) but if they do, most shiradi sorc going to be useless now...and probably have to rebuilt their toon because they all depend on 1 epic destinies...

Can always just go back to draconic. It's powerful but more limited than shiradi is. In my case I'd only have to redo my spell list, others might have to TR/LR if they nerf shiradi.

But I've seen enough nerfs come and go so as to not really care, I'll just see what comes and then adapt accordingly.

[Viconiax]

Yea i've learned that they nerf stuff like every update lol, been learning to adapt to their nerf in the past 4-5 years. :P

And it seem to me that draconic is somehow more sp efficient on my sorc.

Now just have to wait for enhancement pass to come out with wild mage.