Pyrene, the Endgame Paladin

[whereispowderedsilve]

Had a chance to go over all the changes incoming on Monday? Read thru all the Lama forums? Copied over Sith to Lama?

Anywhoo if/when u get a chance let us know your plans for this build! Keep up the great work! Cheers! :P! !

P.S. drop by the irc again sometime! http://www.ddochat.com Cya soon!

[Symerith]

Had a chance to go over all the changes incoming on Monday?

Nope, since I don't have access to Lam.

Read thru all the Lama forums?

I am premium and most likely spent more than most VIPs, but I still don't have access to Lam.

Copied over Sith to Lama?

No surprise there, not only was I never able to transfer my main toons, but I was also not granted access. Only toon I was ever able to copy was a toon I deleted 2 years ago, with no gear at all.

Anywhoo if/when u get a chance let us know your plans for this build! Keep up the great work! Cheers! :P! !

I'm moving appartment atm so unlikely I will have my computer before 3/4 weeks. I will probably get back to DDO a little bit when I'm settled, try out some new things as well and let you know about the build.

P.S. drop by the irc again sometime! http://www.ddochat.com Cya soon!

I'll try to log in on the chat on my phone during that time though

[Battlehawke]

I'll try to log in on the chat on my phone during that time though

Cant wait to see what you come up with. I have loved my Pyrene....

[Dodoroq]

I wonder, with U19 well behind us, how Pyrene does now?

[whereispowderedsilve]

I wonder, with U19 well behind us, how Pyrene does now?

I think he is still moving between apartments or what not. Also may or may not have Broadband internet or his computer/laptop set up as of yet. I may be wrong tho...

Cheers! :P! !

[lherndo]

It looks like the initial Enhancements listed,

ENHANCEMENTS

HUMAN Charisma I (2), Improved Recovery II (6), Human Versatility IV (10), Racial Toughness II (3),
RANGER Ranger Sprint boost I (1), Favored Damage I (1), Dexterity I (2)
MONK Patient Tortoise I (1), Improved Recovery I (2)
PALADIN Resistance of Good II (3), Divine Righteousness I (1), Divine Sacrifice II (3), Exalted Smite III (6), Extra Lay on Hands II (3), Extra Smite Evil IV (10), Hunter of the Dead II (3), Devotion II (3), Charisma I (2), Toughness II (3), Divine Might III (6), Improved Turning II (3), Extra Turning II (3)

Are from pre U19.

does anybody have any ideas on enhancements since the latest update. I've never played a paladin, ranger or monk so I'm not very familiar with where their best enhancements are.

or at least point me to the ones that are MUST HAVE.

[Dodoroq]

As for enhancements and must-haves there, spend on:

Ranger Deepwood Stalker:
- Increased Empathy to Tier III for +36 Positive Spellpower; If you have points to spend, which you likely do not, spend on at least one point in Versatile Empaty and Sneak Attack, for 6-point spent and benefit of +60 Positive Spellpower and 2d6 sneak attack die

Paladin Knight of the Chalice:
- Extra Smite - Extra Smite - Exalted Smite line
- Divine Might to Tier III - the most important one you will have, it will be 2-min buff of around 12-15 to your strength.
- Vigor of Life line
I tend to spend the most points in this tree, because Sealed Life Tier V ability is so freakingly powerful against Beholders and stuff...

Ranger Arcane Archer:
I would just use this one to get some bonus damage and DR abilities, using Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows(or any other element you wish) and first two tiers of core abilities. Your bows get Aligned for free and +1d6 damage

Ranger Tempest:
- get Haste Boost on Tier II. Guess that's it in this tree.

Monk Shintao:
- just take the first core ability.

Human:
- Saves Boost
- Improved Recovery
- Damage boost (not sure whether it is on same cooldown as class haste boost, but it wasn't when I checked before U20)

Paladin Stalwart defender:
whatever is left spend here to get Extra Lay-on Hands and some PRR.

[Symerith]

Hey,

The Pyrene is still a decent build but nowhere near as good as pre-enhancement pass.
Some of the reasons are:
- the Pyrene took advantage of many paladin goodies, such as Divine Might, which is available now with only 2 paladin levels!
- with the enhancement pass came to ability to stay centered while holding a cleaver. The +1 crit multiplier & PRR bonus from earth stance is just too good to skip so you'd want at least 8 fighter levels and 6 monk levels.

That leaves us with various splits:
- 12 fighter 6 monk 2 paladin (Bladeforged)
- 8 fighter 6 ranger 6 monk (Bladeforged)

The reason for Bladeforged is that the class tree is insanely good, and power of the forge can be used at the same time as Haste Boost.

As a side note, I'll be TRing my main into a TWF toon as promised, so you'll see some gameplay videos at some point.

[Dodoroq]

Hey,

The Pyrene is still a decent build but nowhere near as good as pre-enhancement pass.
Some of the reasons are:
- the Pyrene took advantage of many paladin goodies, such as Divine Might, which is available now with only 2 paladin levels!
- with the enhancement pass came to ability to stay centered while holding a cleaver. The +1 crit multiplier & PRR bonus from earth stance is just too good to skip so you'd want at least 8 fighter levels and 6 monk levels.

That leaves us with various splits:
- 12 fighter 6 monk 2 paladin (Bladeforged)
- 8 fighter 6 ranger 6 monk (Bladeforged)

The reason for Bladeforged is that the class tree is insanely good, and power of the forge can be used at the same time as Haste Boost.

As a side note, I'll be TRing my main into a TWF toon as promised, so you'll see some gameplay videos at some point.

Well, I know you are an author of the build, but on the other hand I do not think you are fair with the answer. Opposed to it, I would say that Pyrene after update is STRONGER than before update. All of the goodies stay the same, and the build gets pretty big boost with new divine power (you can get close to 80 strength now).

True, divine power can be obtained by more classes/builds. True, it can be gained on level 2 and you don't have to go paladin 14 for it anymore. However, these two facts do not have anything in common with the question whether Pyrene is a good build after U19 or not. Saying "No, Pyrene is not as good, because XYZ build (and totally different one) is better now" is by my standards quite off.

Your proposed two options (and many others) are definitely good, however they work completely different to Pyrene in abilities - mainly in abilities of self-healing. You just have to rely on Reconstruct/Heal scrolls and Cocoon. No Lay-ons, no quickened empowered CSW, no unyielding... I would say such build would have more problems in EE DA solo, at least it would have to use consumables. It might be better in group play (higher DPS) though.

Just saying...

[DyrtNap]

Well, I know you are an author of the build, but on the other hand I do not think you are fair with the answer. Opposed to it, I would say that Pyrene after update is STRONGER than before update. All of the goodies stay the same, and the build gets pretty big boost with new divine power (you can get close to 80 strength now).

True, divine power can be obtained by more classes/builds. True, it can be gained on level 2 and you don't have to go paladin 14 for it anymore. However, these two facts do not have anything in common with the question whether Pyrene is a good build after U19 or not. Saying "No, Pyrene is not as good, because XYZ build (and totally different one) is better now" is by my standards quite off.

Your proposed two options (and many others) are definitely good, however they work completely different to Pyrene in abilities - mainly in abilities of self-healing. You just have to rely on Reconstruct/Heal scrolls and Cocoon. No Lay-ons, no quickened empowered CSW, no unyielding... I would say such build would have more problems in EE DA solo, at least it would have to use consumables. It might be better in group play (higher DPS) though.

Just saying...

I think your forgetting that Bladeforged get Reconstruct as an SLA (costs 25sp /w FREE Metamagics) for 5pts in their racial tree. They may not get any quickened CSW's (Although BF Pallies get all Repair spells) but that really isn't going to be the end of the world. In essence the self healing is no different since both builds have access to Recon *IF Bladeforged as suggested*. A 25sp quickened Recon > LoH in my humble opinion. The only thing is that SP might be less of a consideration in a build with more Paladin levels.

[Symerith]

Well, I know you are an author of the build, but on the other hand I do not think you are fair with the answer. Opposed to it, I would say that Pyrene after update is STRONGER than before update. All of the goodies stay the same, and the build gets pretty big boost with new divine power (you can get close to 80 strength now).

True, divine power can be obtained by more classes/builds. True, it can be gained on level 2 and you don't have to go paladin 14 for it anymore. However, these two facts do not have anything in common with the question whether Pyrene is a good build after U19 or not. Saying "No, Pyrene is not as good, because XYZ build (and totally different one) is better now" is by my standards quite off.

Your proposed two options (and many others) are definitely good, however they work completely different to Pyrene in abilities - mainly in abilities of self-healing. You just have to rely on Reconstruct/Heal scrolls and Cocoon. No Lay-ons, no quickened empowered CSW, no unyielding... I would say such build would have more problems in EE DA solo, at least it would have to use consumables. It might be better in group play (higher DPS) though.

Just saying...

Let's put things back in their context. Back a few updates ago, the golden age of the juggernauts, I had a Juggernaut, but the lack of synergy between reconstruct & tenser's would leave you unable to heal yourself for a dozen of seconds. I tried to think of a build that would allow various sources of healing, and I came up with the Pyrene, that had: better saves, more HP, more PRR, more DPS & obviously many more sources of healing.

With the enhancement pass came many changes, one of the most important ones being the fact the Heal & Repair skill will boost both your Healing & Repairing... Simply put.. your cocoon heals you for more than it used to, same with the repair..
Combine that with the fact you can now stay centered, get more PRR, HP, +1 crit multiplier and the Pyrene isn't so attractive anymore.

To answer your questions.. Did the enhancement pass boost the Pyrene? Sure, the build is even better than it used to! Is the Pyrene still the best melee/ranged hybrid out there? Sadly, no, and that's all I've been trying to tell you.

I like to play the most powerful builds, and while the Pyrene got better, some combinations of race/split/enhancements/feats are more powerful now. Quite frankly, any build or class can do an EEDA solo, and one of the Bladeforged builds I mentionned would get it done much more efficiently. Proof soon enough when I decide to TR.

Side note: I never build my toons for group play, as MOTU killed healers by giving healing options to any build. Everyone tends to be more or less self sufficient nowadays.

[Dodoroq]

I think your forgetting that Bladeforged get Reconstruct as an SLA (costs 25sp /w FREE Metamagics) for 5pts in their racial tree. They may not get any quickened CSW's (Although BF Pallies get all Repair spells) but that really isn't going to be the end of the world. In essence the self healing is no different since both builds have access to Recon *IF Bladeforged as suggested*. A 25sp quickened Recon > LoH in my humble opinion. The only thing is that SP might be less of a consideration in a build with more Paladin levels.

Yes, forgot that one. It is 11 points spent in the tree rather than 5, but when you want Power of the Forge anyway, it does not make any difference. I was living with the impression that the cooldown on this is rather meh, but it definitely changes with the further tiers according to wiki. The problematic part on some of the suggested builds is just the ability to cast spells and minimal SP pool - what spellcasting ability and what SP pool 12 fighter 6 monk 2 paladin (Bladeforged) has? Still, all came from my omission of Reconstruct SLA as an option, so sorry for that.

With the enhancement pass came many changes, one of the most important ones being the fact the Heal & Repair skill will boost both your Healing & Repairing... Simply put.. your cocoon heals you for more than it used to, same with the repair..

It came for a price - mainly no Healing spellpower boosting enhancements. Yet I admit generally the spellpower went up, just you want to invest to a skill rather to enhancements on most builds, with few notable exceptions (well, who would not take the Deepwood for just the first-tier boost to healing spellpower?)

Is the Pyrene still the best melee/ranged hybrid out there? Sadly, no, and that's all I've been trying to tell you.

I am on the same boat with you in this, to be honest. The reason I stepped in was that your primary answer implies that Pyrene lost in power, which is clearly not true. So, no objections on relative power of Pyrene to top builds out there, just objections to exact wording ;-)

I like to play the most powerful builds, and while the Pyrene got better, some combinations of race/split/enhancements/feats are more powerful now. Quite frankly, any build or class can do an EEDA solo, and one of the Bladeforged builds I mentionned would get it done much more efficiently. Proof soon enough when I decide to TR.

And my personal note on this. From time to time, there comes the "top build" for the whole game. Shiradi sorcs seem to be pretty close to top for a long time, Juggernaut was there, as was Pyrene in it's time. I liked Pyrene build because of multiple reasons - it really had the best from all three classes in it with no sacrifices done. The reason why I liked it the most was more mundane though - it is not a robot. This is the reason, simple as that.
I usually only play elves (or when the situation calls for it, half-elves or drow), but could be persuaded to try something more wild... which stops at the Human for me. I wouldn't touch Warforged with a 6-feet long stick if it came to playing one. And in this, Pyrene (or some of it's slight modification) is still one of the best fleshy builds out there - it may drop from place #1 now, but amongst fleshies it still keeps in top 5.

[Dodoroq]

I would like to get paladin PL. What about 8/6/6 paladin/ranger/monk (bladeforged), mostly ranged. Is it better atm than 14/4/2 paladin/ranger/monk?

If you are doing it just for past life, I guess it really does not matter and what you have available for leveling equipment is more important than actual level split. You will not have any problems even soloing elites at level at least up to lvl14 or so, then the build (and equip available) may start to become more important. Basically, 8/6/6 splits for most classes do not work as well as you get the goodies later, but this is just something I heard, not witnessed myself (going mostly 9/9/2 or 10/8/2 whatever/arty/monk or rogue splits for melee lives).

[Guartwog]

Just out of curiosity (and I didn't read through everything, so apologies if this has already been mentioned) but what is the dodge% potential of this build?

I mostly ask because I feel like I saw a lot in the video posted with the OP.

Edit: Just rechecked and I did see quite a lot of dodges in there. Also, since I'm working on PL's right now, how does this build do in heroic levels? Clearly once capped it's very effective, but is it as effective while leveling to 20?

[Dodoroq]

OK, definitely missed the bladeforged part, in which case 8/6/6 starting at 15 will definitely work fine.

PS: Neni zac

Just out of curiosity (and I didn't read through everything, so apologies if this has already been mentioned) but what is the dodge% potential of this build?

I mostly ask because I feel like I saw a lot in the video posted with the OP.

Edit: Just rechecked and I did see quite a lot of dodges in there. Also, since I'm working on PL's right now, how does this build do in heroic levels? Clearly once capped it's very effective, but is it as effective while leveling to 20?

Build (as shown on the front picture) works with pyjamas or Light armor. The dodge comes just from items, ED's etc, no Dodge-giving feats are used. Still could get up to the dodge cap, definitely over 15. OTOH it's on Symerith to answer this.
As for leveling, I cannot see any problems, once you have PA+Cleave+Greater Cleave on a decent STR-build character and Manyshot for bursts, you will tear through heroic content.

[Eth]

The dodge in the video should mainly come from the active Masters Blitz.
MB gives you 50% dodge as long as it's active, but is limited by your dodge cap.
I'm not sure but it looks like that was a Dragonhide Armor? That would be 17% dodge with Blitz active, if I'm not mistaken.

[RumbIe]

So I rolled one of these bad boys out when bladeforged were introduced because I thought you had to be paladin for the first 15 levels and since I've never played a paladin I thought I'd give one a shot.

So I played him as a paladin for a bit and with too many other toons in my stable he was my least favorite and forgotten until now that VIPs get a free epic reincarnation stone for all characters at level 20 I am dusting him and at level 17. So now I'm 15 Paladin and 2 Monk. I have level 18 banked and I'm wondering a few things:

- What does Ranger bring to the table? Is it just so you can switch to ranged for a fury-shot burst using your str as the modifier? That's only for red named and bosses really though right? I mean without improved precise shot that's a lot of damage on a single trash mob or a few with some quick tabbing I guess. Just not the same impact as my monkcher.

- I can see 3 fighter using Kensei being nice with spiritual bond, haste boost and critical accuracy. Barb is also nice no?

- OK, now for a really stupid question I'm sure. Healing amp on a bladeforged. On my WF sorc I obviously ignore. On my BF I have as well and have had no issue healing myself. In fact I took mechanist for repair amp which is nice. I ask because when partying should I be taking it as I will be self healing in higher level content less. (Not less. I mean self heal while you can but in EE content it isn't all self heal any more right?). If I don't focus on heal amp (which btw is strange to me as it's a huge focus for all my fleshies.) I have more points to use elsewhere. At my current level split I like Weapon Attachment which gives a good boost to my equipped weapon, communion of handling for racial seeker +2 and power of the forge for another boost to damage and saves at the same time.

I know the build is a suggestion and a base for how the OP likes to play and I can modify as I see fit. I'm not questioning the OP's build. I'd just like to learn more some of the whys so I can start making better builds when I sit down to it. Clearly the OP knows what they are doing and I just want to be a humble student here. Thanks in advance.

[emptysands]

- What does Ranger bring to the table? Is it just so you can switch to ranged for a fury-shot burst using your str as the modifier? That's only for red named and bosses really though right? I mean without improved precise shot that's a lot of damage on a single trash mob or a few with some quick tabbing I guess. Just not the same impact as my monkcher.

1 Ranger means you get bow strength without needed to get WF: Ranged. So 2 Ranger is effectively 2 ranged feats (Bow Strength, Rapid Shot) and saving you a third.

[RumbIe]

I actually meant more in playstyle than in the feats it gives. I can see from wiki what it does. I guess I meant more that in the current game-state is the ranged worth it over focusing on just melee? The OP says they stay in Legendary D most of the time. Does manyshot without improved precise shot and no fury of the wild really do that much dps? I have a monkcher and know the value of fury shot. Never tried a 4 ranger splash before to see how much damage that does and if it's worth picking up a bow, MS, then while on timer melee-ing again.

That was more my question.

[Takllin]

I actually meant more in playstyle than in the feats it gives. I can see from wiki what it does. I guess I meant more that in the current game-state is the ranged worth it over focusing on just melee? The OP says they stay in Legendary D most of the time. Does manyshot without improved precise shot and no fury of the wild really do that much dps? I have a monkcher and know the value of fury shot. Never tried a 4 ranger splash before to see how much damage that does and if it's worth picking up a bow, MS, then while on timer melee-ing again.

That was more my question.

Manyshot is the highest burst DPS in the game, and it works very well with Blitz.