Pyrene, the Endgame Paladin

[Symerith]

As promised, here is the Pyrene at cap. Absolutely lovin' her.

[kierg10]

As promised, here is the Pyrene at cap. Absolutely lovin' her.

Heh. 69 PRR.

EDIT: but ya that is insane. lol I kinda want to play this build now xD

[Ellihor]

Heh. 69 PRR.

EDIT: but ya that is insane. lol I kinda want to play this build now xD

And you look very cool on a female human with dragonhide

[Lurzifer]

Sith is using cleaver... says it all.

Guess i have to make a fully buffed up screenshot from my Juggs character screen without showing anything else than the character screen :P

[Eth]

As promised, here is the Pyrene at cap. Absolutely lovin' her.

Buff list pls? :P

[Symerith]

Sith is using cleaver... says it all.

Guess i have to make a fully buffed up screenshot from my Juggs character screen without showing anything else than the character screen :P

You'll still be below in saves, HP and PRR

Buff list is : GH, Abishai, Yugo for con & cha, tenser's, ram's, titan's grip.
Obviously, I'm in the right destiny, with the right twists, so nothing fancy.

[Purkilius]

Looks really nice gratz.

Are you using Divine Sacrifice and Exalted Smites with the cleaves and LD abilities while in melee mode and if so how good are they while blitzing for example?

[Symerith]

Looks really nice gratz.

Are you using Divine Sacrifice and Exalted Smites with the cleaves and LD abilities while in melee mode and if so how good are they while blitzing for example?

When blitzing, the damage from divine sacrifice is insignificant, but exalted smites are a nice boost (seen over 10k). Basically, you cycle through cleave/great cleave/momentum swing/lay waste and try to fit in smites now and there.

Outside of blitzing, divine sacrifice can be worth using - with the enh. pass, it's definitely something that could be dropped as there are far better abilities you can cycle through.

[WruntJunior]

When blitzing, the damage from divine sacrifice is insignificant, but exalted smites are a nice boost (seen over 10k). Basically, you cycle through cleave/great cleave/momentum swing/lay waste and try to fit in smites now and there.

Outside of blitzing, divine sacrifice can be worth using - with the enh. pass, it's definitely something that could be dropped as there are far better abilities you can cycle through.

I'm finding divine sacrifice useful for a different reason - extra crit multiplier can be useful when I'm unlucky with momentum swing coming off timer (it happens to me).

[Purkilius]

When blitzing, the damage from divine sacrifice is insignificant, but exalted smites are a nice boost (seen over 10k). Basically, you cycle through cleave/great cleave/momentum swing/lay waste and try to fit in smites now and there.

Outside of blitzing, divine sacrifice can be worth using - with the enh. pass, it's definitely something that could be dropped as there are far better abilities you can cycle through.

Thought as much had trouble fitting it in when I did a 12 kensai/6 paladin/2 monk and from the looks of the enh. pass it is going to be a huge piano play with so many attacks to cycle through.

[Symerith]

The Pyrene soloed Epic Elite DA today.
30 minutes which makes it by far the fastest completion existing so far (34 shown on screenshot, the video being uploaded shows 30 if you don't take into account blitz charging time).
The closest before was me on the Juggernaut - roughly 35 minutes (39 minutes total).

Capped 2 days ago, acquired all gear/augments yesterday, tested yesterday & today in EEDA.
It took me 5 tries. The main reason being I tried to play it extremely "conservatively" mana wise, and really wanted to save my LOH's for "emergency" - the truth is each time I died, it was "emergency" and I was still trying to wait for cocoon. My mistake in those 4 first tries, I played it much more efficiently in the last try as I didn't use any mana pots/consumables, and well.. 30 min says it all.
On a side note, EEDA being pretty intensive, you benefit more from "fat" recons than small cocoons, hence the Juggernaut being a better approach to this dungeon.

Overall, my thoughts on the Pyrene are that it is probably the best current melee build for EE content.






Will post with link when the video is up.

[WruntJunior]

Have you thought about twisting in Endless LoH for EE soloing? Costs you Sense Weakness, but gives you a LoH regenerated roughly every 2.5 minutes as well as giving you 3 more LoH.

Not as high damage as Sense Weakness, but may make things a bit easier to survive.

[Symerith]

Video is up.. here.. 1080HD of course!
Blocked in Germany..

Edit: @Wrunt: I believe a build that can solo EEDA (the most intense quest damage wise) with no consumables is fine without Endless LoH.. I use LoH as emergencies and really when you have many healing options (Cocoon, LoH, Cure serious/moderate, SF pots, heal scrolls), I think I'm on the safe side to say it's overkill.

[kierg10]

Video is up.. here.. 1080HD of course!
Blocked in Germany..

Edit: @Wrunt: I believe a build that can solo EEDA (the most intense quest damage wise) with no consumables is fine without Endless LoH.. I use LoH as emergencies and really when you have many healing options (Cocoon, LoH, Cure serious/moderate, SF pots, heal scrolls), I think I'm on the safe side to say it's overkill.

holy **** >.>

I say sith is OP. NERF TEH SITH!!!!!!

[nni]

Hey Symerith,

A couple of questions, since you've made me decide to TR into this build instead of a more traditional melee only paladin multiclass.

You decided to go for 3 ranger/2 monk, which gives you diehard, thus allowing you to qualify for defender of siberys. I don't see any benefits from 3 ranger over 3 monk other than that. Did you come to the conclusion that the 15 PRR and +2 saves from defender is better than the 1.33 bonus to heal amp from HotD and 3 monk?

Since the STR and CON bonus from stance doesn't stack with rage/primal fury, you'd be either +2 over rage or -1 with primal fury. Am I missing anything?

Also, if you are in a group or raid do you ever go Fury? If so, do you just forego the stance? I'm asking because my understanding is that Manyshot has such great synergy with Unbridled Fury, which is why a lot of people are trying to fit in Manyshot into melee builds.

Thanks in advance .

[bratos01]

I like the build and presently working on a 36 pt version with a few past lives. I'm thinking I would enjoy the 14P/4R/2M version. Although since I don't have completionist and 4 ranger gives precision, how would you change the feats around? I was think of just picking up THF/ITHF in place of the precision (which is free at 4 Ranger) and the completionist feat. If you have any thoughts on this I would appreciate it to hear them

[Symerith]

Hey Symerith,

A couple of questions, since you've made me decide to TR into this build instead of a more traditional melee only paladin multiclass.

You decided to go for 3 ranger/2 monk, which gives you diehard, thus allowing you to qualify for defender of siberys. I don't see any benefits from 3 ranger over 3 monk other than that. Did you come to the conclusion that the 15 PRR and +2 saves from defender is better than the 1.33 bonus to heal amp from HotD and 3 monk?

Since the STR and CON bonus from stance doesn't stack with rage/primal fury, you'd be either +2 over rage or -1 with primal fury. Am I missing anything?

Also, if you are in a group or raid do you ever go Fury? If so, do you just forego the stance? I'm asking because my understanding is that Manyshot has such great synergy with Unbridled Fury, which is why a lot of people are trying to fit in Manyshot into melee builds.

Thanks in advance .

You are correct for the STR/CON bonuses, but then you would not be able to pick up the Cocoon twist which I believe is essential to the build. It probably represents 75% of the healing done in my EEDA solo video - the rest being LOH/SF pots/Spells.
Personnally, I believe the extra PRR/saves/HP puts you on the "safe side". With 250 less HP, EEDA would have been a big challenge (considering I'm melee based).

Well, the idea is drop the stance when you go Fury (and as you said, forego the stance).
Personnally? I have all my gear and rarely group so I stick to LD for the few hours I play
You misunderstand one little aspect though: I didn't pick up Manyshot because of it's synergy with Fury, I picked it up because:
1. endgame is a lot about burst DPS.
2. manyshot is the BEST way to start a blitz (Unless you have high CR trash mobs like the bats at the beginning of EEDA - notice I used the same tactic for both my EEDA solos on juggernaut or pyrene. The toughest part is the begining of the last wave (orthons wave)).
The idea is that manyshot ensures 1. you won't lose the blitz & 2. you'll quickly get it close to 10.
3. attack is the best defense. Quickly going through certain potentially dangerous phases is critical. Examples (EEDA since there's a video): the bosses hit harder and there's always the chance of rolling 1s on their disintegrate. Also, those boss fights are longer and you are likely to lose your blitz during the proccess. Unleashing a manyshot when the counter is at 10 will most likely get the boss down to 50% or lower, and you can finish him off. In the latest devil waves of phase 1 (there's like 7 or 8 of them that spawn), it can be quite dangerous, getting rid of half of them w/ a manyshot will provide a certain degree of safety, as 3 or 4 of them isn't a big deal.
4. being ranged is great in an endgame where there is little to no ranged damage taken but in melee you can die in a few seconds. It's best to deal with certain situations by using your "ranged option". It's also the reason why the cleaver is superior in many ways to the esos. The "Damage over defense" theme died with motu.

Hope that helps

I like the build and presently working on a 36 pt version with a few past lives. I'm thinking I would enjoy the 14P/4R/2M version. Although since I don't have completionist and 4 ranger gives precision, how would you change the feats around? I was think of just picking up THF/ITHF in place of the precision (which is free at 4 Ranger) and the completionist feat. If you have any thoughts on this I would appreciate it to hear them

Essentially, 14/4/2 gains 1 extra feat over the 15/3/2. I picked up Completionist as it is a feat paladins benefit most from, but I would advice you to pick up Stunning blow. If we look ahead (Enhancement pass - currently Apha phase), fighters seem to be able to grab a pretty high doublestrike. Maybe going for heavy armor and replacing the 2 monk with 2 fighter (to access the ftr tree) would be interesting. Loss of evasion but big increase in doublestrike, small PRR gain as well. If you are into a long term project, you may want to hold off TRing until we know more (although it's still going to be alpha phase - it should give us a solid idea of the most efficient pyrene adaptation).

[Dieterstrife]

All I'm seeing from the Pyrene, the Juggernaut, the Beast and all other builds like them:

Usually just giving yourself between 2 and 4 ranger levels, then either 2 monk or 2 fighter is enough to fit in Manyshot and Overwhelming Critical into a single build.

Does this make them the best? Probably not, but it does make efficient builds capable of a lot of things. What it does give though is a good base setup: You can literally make one of these builds with any class you want, and it will accomplish the same thing more or less. Yes, a barb version is not gonna have anywhere near the same self healing (or evasion, since you would have to take fighter) nor is a bard version going to have the dps output of these ideas.

You've not really posted a build so much as you've posted a feat list that can be done with any and all classes. It's quite nice, actually.

Soon as I get the money I'm lring my rogue into this, just as proof. Difference: I don't much care for overwhelming critical, but I do care for stunning fists. Cons compared to all of these builds: I'm gonna be SOL on HP. 600 in dread most likely, but it will still be a fun toy to try. I'm also going to have a LOT lower str score, but I'm going to have a more reliable form of CC (like it's really impossible to hit a 65dc on stunning fists, even for a first lifer) Do I solo a lot? No, I'm to sociable for that nonsense. I like having someone to talk to. Will I be useful in a quest? Don't know, haven't gotten around to testing the build out and getting it geared.

Will it matter? It's an alt, and I like her to have a weird funky build. Only character I haven't deleted and remade at least once, just capped and tred her.

I do appreciate the feat list though. Makes it easier to deal with a feat starved class.

[voodoogroves]

All I'm seeing from the Pyrene, the Juggernaut, the Beast and all other builds like them:

Usually just giving yourself between 2 and 4 ranger levels, then either 2 monk or 2 fighter is enough to fit in Manyshot and Overwhelming Critical into a single build.

Does this make them the best? Probably not, but it does make efficient builds capable of a lot of things. What it does give though is a good base setup: You can literally make one of these builds with any class you want, and it will accomplish the same thing more or less. Yes, a barb version is not gonna have anywhere near the same self healing (or evasion, since you would have to take fighter) nor is a bard version going to have the dps output of these ideas.

You've not really posted a build so much as you've posted a feat list that can be done with any and all classes. It's quite nice, actually.

Soon as I get the money I'm lring my rogue into this, just as proof. Difference: I don't much care for overwhelming critical, but I do care for stunning fists. Cons compared to all of these builds: I'm gonna be SOL on HP. 600 in dread most likely, but it will still be a fun toy to try. I'm also going to have a LOT lower str score, but I'm going to have a more reliable form of CC (like it's really impossible to hit a 65dc on stunning fists, even for a first lifer) Do I solo a lot? No, I'm to sociable for that nonsense. I like having someone to talk to. Will I be useful in a quest? Don't know, haven't gotten around to testing the build out and getting it geared.

Will it matter? It's an alt, and I like her to have a weird funky build. Only character I haven't deleted and remade at least once, just capped and tred her.

I do appreciate the feat list though. Makes it easier to deal with a feat starved class.

There are many different flavors of this, sure. I have a bard that looks similar (not an AA - a Half Orc Bard w/ a bit of ranger for manyshot).

Still, that's on a bard platform.

I think what the OP is suggesting is that this is in his opinion the best self-healing, does-what-the-core-class-does non-arti DPS format right now.

It may well be. Yes, the feat list and considerations are generally the same on an arti, bard, paladin, wizzy, whatever. There's not a ton of difference between the jug and this in their feat choices ... and they all syngergize w/ the EDs in the same way.


The bigger question is how much of these builds "working" is due to player skill, gear and past lives. Newb Joe can't build this pally, and I'd be surprised if Haek / etc. weren't making CON decisions based on tomes available to hit Epic Toughness.

[Dieterstrife]

The bigger question is how much of these builds "working" is due to player skill, gear and past lives. Newb Joe can't build this pally, and I'd be surprised if Haek / etc. weren't making CON decisions based on tomes available to hit Epic Toughness.

There's a dude on my server right now who tred into a Juggernaut. The first time he did, he hated it because it didn't perform nearly as well as he was made to believe from the forums. The second time around he decided to actually try, and see how well it works out. He loves the build right now, but this dude is decked to the teeth in gear levels that most people across the entire game only dream about (think 2 complete ESOS plus everything for a 3rd on just that toon, ethornlord, and just about any other epic item you could ever want). He told me that the build relied VERY heavily on gear, same as the old Emerald relied on extreme levels of gear to hit the marks Drokken put in place. It has it's advantages, and it's a fun build to play (he's also a supremely good player, so he's got that going for him) so I'll take his word on it: 90% of people who make either the Juggernaut or Pyrene will be disappointed. It's a good platform, but it's very dependent on other factors. For example, his ESOS is slotted with recon 114 (he says the arti ring is a trap) so he gets the max efficiency out of that sword, yet has a hamp kama saying "You can't just rely on recon" and scroll healing himself for ~500.

Now, if I were to make a juggernaut (I'm more likely to make Pyrene, though I do enjoy having 18 levels of paladin just because I like more pure builds) I would definitely not be on the same levels as any of the mentioned players. I wouldn't be soloing EEDA, I wouldn't be farming any EE in the game solo just looking for certain items, but I would be dominating some content.

.....I may have gotten into a different rant for some reason...hmm.....