Zergod - My shiradi wiz build

[kalaka]

Get a lotta tells about my wizard so figured I would just post it.

Zergod
18wiz/2monk
Lawful Neutral
Warforged








Stats

Max Int
Max Con
4 Points into Wisdom



Feats:

Iron Will (Monk Feat)
Toughness (Monk Feat)
Insightful Reflexes
Epic Toughness
Maximize Spell
Empower Spell
Extend
Quicken Spell
Spell Focus: Evocation
Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Epic Mental Toughness
Sorc Past Life
Wizard Past Life


Enhancements

Improved Quickening 2
Improved Concentration 4
Kinetic Spellcasting 6
Deadly Kinetics 5
Energy of the Scholar 4
Acid Manipulation 1
Frost Manipulation 7
Storm Manipulation 7
Flame Manipulation 1
Force Manipulation 7
Repair Manipulation 1
Wizard Int 3
Warforged Inscribed Armor 1
Archmage 5
Archmage Spell Mastery 1: Evocation
Magic Missile SLA
Gust of Wind SLA
Chain Missiles SLA


Spells


Lvl 1: Jump, Magic Missile, Shield, Detect Secret Doors, Tumble
Lvl 2: Invisibility, Knock, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Ottos Dance
Lvl 3: Magic circle Against Evil, Chain Missiles, Displacement, Haste
Lvl 4: Enervate, DDoor, Ice Storm, Force Missiles
Lvl 5: Niac's Biting Cold, Prismatic Ray, Eladar's Electric Surge, Ball Lightning, Break Enchantment
Lvl 6: Greater Heroism, Disintegrate, Reconstruct, Chain Lightning, Shadow Walk
Lvl 7: FoD, Mass Prot Elements, Prismatic Spray, Mass Invisibility
Lvl 8: Symbol of Death, Incindeary Cloud, Ottos Dance, Polar Ray
Lvl 9: Meteor Storm, Energy Drain, Power Word: Kill


Epic Destiny

http://ddodestiny.info/#d/shiradi_ch...3,k,p,r2,x3,aa

Twist in Unearthly Reactions, Dragonhide, and Impregnable Mind


Gear

Helm - EE Blue Helm +8 Int - Resistance +7 and Con +7
Necklace - EE Iron Beads - Proof Against Disease +10 and Exceptional Con +1
Trinket - +3 Int Planar Focus of Erudition with +1 Saves Ritual
Cloak - Epic Elite Jeweled Cloak - Cha +7 and Deathblock
Belt - eH Arkat's Cord - False Life +35 and Wisdom +2
Ring - Epic Ring of Elemental Essence - Blindness Immunity
Gloves - Mineral 2 - 35 HP 1 Cha Skills
Boots - Epic Corrosion - Str +7 14 PRR
Ring - Con 2 Dun Robar
Bracers - Str 2 Superior Parrying Large Guild Augment (SP)
Docent - Flawless Blue Docent Tier 3 - Good Luck +2
Goggles - Concordant Opp - 10 HP 150 SP 5 Cha Skills
Weapon-Twilight Tier 4 Combustion 120 Resonance 114

[Stormraiser]

Question :

Why Iron will(monk bonus feat)?
Why don't you have insightful reflexes?

[DynaTheCat]

Question :

Why Iron will(monk bonus feat)?
Why don't you have insightful reflexes?

Shhh... that was his secret.

[Matuse]

Iron Will (Monk Feat)
Toughness (Monk Feat)
Epic Toughness
Maximize Spell
Empower Spell
Extend
Quicken Spell
Spell Focus: Evocation
Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Epic Mental Toughness

This is 12 feats.

Everyone gets feats at 1,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24.
Monk gets feats at 1,2
Wizard gets feats at 1,5,10,15

That's 15 feats.

So um...hi?

[Symerith]

Iron will. & extend are useless.
Enlarge, Dodge & Insight. Ref are much more useful... and you are missing feats too as Matuse mentionned.

[kalaka]

2 will save>25 HP from toughness IMO. The list of monk feats to choose from is small and I found it to be the most beneficial, IMO. Hadn't really considered dodge but I might, as it would push me to the dodge hard cap I believe. Will do some thinking on dodge vs iron will. Ya sry rushed this post while walking out the door and obv i have insightful... fixing feats section lol EDIT: forgot insightful, wiz PL, and sorc PL. Extend saves SP on haste/rage/displacement. It is essentially more SP to DPS with. Saves are 53/56/53. I prefer an emphasis on saves and I find it beneficial.

[Symerith]

Shiradi sorc vs shiradi wiz is simple: sorc has more DPS, wiz has more self sufficiency (although when you have evasion and quickened recon.. difference is small). But yeah, wiz with monk splash can reach low 60's saves and around 25% dodge.

Edit: consider getting solid fog as a spell, it's nice to have.
Gear set up looks good, only thing is why the dun robar ring?

[kalaka]

Shiradi sorc vs shiradi wiz is simple: sorc has more DPS, wiz has more self sufficiency (although when you have evasion and quickened recon.. difference is small). But yeah, wiz with monk splash can reach low 60's saves and around 25% dodge.

Edit: consider getting solid fog as a spell, it's nice to have.
Gear set up looks good, only thing is why the dun robar ring?

con2 and dodge 4% on dun robar. sorc doesnt rly have more DPS IMO. the AM slas are better than cold savant SLAs and 20 spell power doesnt make up for it. shiradi wiz also has more SP due to feats.

[Munkenmo]

I'm not impressed.

You should reroll to a finesse halfling monk shiradi shuriken tosser.

[kalaka]

I'm not impressed.

You should reroll to a finesse halfling monk shiradi shuriken tosser.

give me a box?

[Azarddoze]

con2 and dodge 4% on dun robar. sorc doesnt rly have more DPS IMO. the AM slas are better than cold savant SLAs and 20 spell power doesnt make up for it. shiradi wiz also has more SP due to feats.

Sorc have more SP and they cast faster, they don't need quicken. Considering you stated that more SP = more DPS, I think that they do have more. They also have more AP to spend on damage crit lineso here again, they do more dps.

I can tell because right before I TRed my PM Wizard to a sorcerer, I went for shiradi and specced for it. I tested both in less than a week and from my observations they do dish out more in term of dps and lenght. Also a 18/2 sorc/pal WF doesn't really give up much in term of durability to a 18/2 wiz/monk WF.

The shiradi damage being proc related, the casting speed is the main source of DPS (add to spell power). Also if you have enought SP to never stop casting at a faster speed, this is even better. What you really give by being sorc is versability and by that I mean you are pretty weak outside of that one destiny because of limited spell and no focus on DCs at all.

If you want top DPS out of shiradi, go Sorc and totally build for it. But I would think on the long term it might get boring if crushing stuff isn't the only thing you like to do. I love my sorc/pal, but sometimes I would like to drop that playstyle for a couple quests and play with Magister/Draconic without having to pay 2 blood of the dragon to swap spells. And even if I would do that, i'd be limited to no DC spells.

[kalaka]

Sorc have more SP and they cast faster, they don't need quicken. Considering you stated that more SP = more DPS, I think that they do have more. They also have more AP to spend on damage crit lineso here again, they do more dps.

I can tell because right before I TRed my PM Wizard to a sorcerer, I went for shiradi and specced for it. I tested both in less than a week and from my observations they do dish out more in term of dps and lenght. Also a 18/2 sorc/pal WF doesn't really give up much in term of durability to a 18/2 wiz/monk WF.

The shiradi damage being proc related, the casting speed is the main source of DPS (add to spell power). Also if you have enought SP to never stop casting at a faster speed, this is even better. What you really give by being sorc is versability and by that I mean you are pretty weak outside of that one destiny because of limited spell and no focus on DCs at all.

If you want top DPS out of shiradi, go Sorc and totally build for it. But I would think on the long term it might get boring if crushing stuff isn't the only thing you like to do. I love my sorc/pal, but sometimes I would like to drop that playstyle for a couple quests and play with Magister/Draconic without having to pay 2 blood of the dragon to swap spells. And even if I would do that, i'd be limited to no DC spells.

the sorc has less sp due to being able to take all 4 mental toughnesses on wiz i believe. i could be wrong tho i will have to check. EDIT: ok well i guess the SP loss from sorc is ~300 so sorc is ~200 ahead. the sorc can not stop casting however their slas have less hit aka less procs. the wiz spams all missiles and never stops. a wizard will hit more times in a given time period then a sorc and have more sp to go longer while having evasion on top of saves. and being weak outside shiradi? who cares it crushes everything. i havent found an EE i cant solo in this build.

[Azarddoze]

the sorc has less sp due to being able to take all 4 mental toughnesses on wiz i believe. i could be wrong tho i will have to check. EDIT: ok well i guess the SP loss from sorc is ~300 so sorc is ~200 ahead. the sorc can not stop casting however their slas have less hit aka less procs. the wiz spams all missiles and never stops. a wizard will hit more times in a given time period then a sorc and have more sp to go longer while having evasion on top of saves. and being weak outside shiradi? who cares it crushes everything. i havent found an EE i cant solo in this build.

My sorc has all 3 mental tougness and sorc PL.
My sorc can chain cast magic and force missiles without any cooldown in between. Also can chain cast chain missiles and meteor swarm without any CD in between once 15% reduce is twisted from magister. (Without quicken)
My sorc/pal has over 60 in every saves, all the time, it doesn't need evasion.

I said that it loses in versatibility because for some people having fun is more important than crushing content 100% of the time. I think those care.
For EE, same with the sorc.

All I said is that sorc do more dps in the end but loses versatibility. Both are great builds and do enought dps to be a game changer while retaining a great level of survivability.

[achitophel]

Sorc
1: Toughness
3: Maximize
6: SF:Evo
9: Empower
12: Sorc PL
15: MT
18: iMT
21: eMT
24: eToughness

Guessing you don't have (or some variation of): Quicken, Heighten, Toughness, Wiz pl (10 casts, pretty nice...)

From your post however, i imagine that you are of the "quicken isn't needed on sorc" school of thought.

Advantages of wiz over sorc:
1. Nofail spells with quicken, for those dragon breath moments.
2. Spell selection, and no need to use blood.
3. DC's if you ever feel like switching to something different.
4. SLA chain and magic missile - 10sp and 2sp respectively vs Frost Lance w/ 6sp/6s cooldown.
5. Evasion, with similar saves to a sorc/2pal splash.
6. Spells Wiz(5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3) vs Sorc (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 1)
7. 13 Feat build vs 9

I'm not saying that Shiradi sorcs are worse than wiz, only that you need a better post about why you think that they are.

[seskie1]

Sorc
1: Toughness
3: Maximize
6: SF:Evo
9: Empower
12: Sorc PL
15: MT
18: iMT
21: eMT
24: eToughness

Guessing you don't have (or some variation of): Quicken, Heighten, Toughness, Wiz pl (10 casts, pretty nice...)

From your post however, i imagine that you are of the "quicken isn't needed on sorc" school of thought.

Advantages of wiz over sorc:
1. Nofail spells with quicken, for those dragon breath moments.
2. Spell selection, and no need to use blood.
3. DC's if you ever feel like switching to something different.
4. SLA chain and magic missile - 10sp and 2sp respectively vs Frost Lance w/ 6 sec cooldown.
5. Evasion, with similar saves to a sorc/2pal splash.
6. Spells Wiz(5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3) vs Sorc (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 1)

Stop trying to be logical and productive.

[Munkenmo]

i'm telling ya'll

finesse, shuriken expertise.

healing dragon marks

shiradi.


it's got self heals, evasion, amazing saves..

most importantly it tosses all over a sorc or wiz build.

[Azarddoze]

Sorc
1: Toughness
3: Maximize
6: SF:Evo
9: Empower
12: Sorc PL
15: MT
18: iMT
21: eMT
24: eToughness

Guessing you don't have (or some variation of): Quicken, Heighten, Toughness, Wiz pl (10 casts, pretty nice...)

From your post however, i imagine that you are of the "quicken isn't needed on sorc" school of thought.

Advantages of wiz over sorc:
1. Nofail spells with quicken, for those dragon breath moments.
2. Spell selection, and no need to use blood.
3. DC's if you ever feel like switching to something different.
4. SLA chain and magic missile - 10sp and 2sp respectively vs Frost Lance w/ 6sp/6s cooldown.
5. Evasion, with similar saves to a sorc/2pal splash.
6. Spells Wiz(5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3) vs Sorc (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 1)
7. 13 Feat build vs 9

I'm not saying that Shiradi sorcs are worse than wiz, only that you need a better post about why you think that they are.

If this is adressed to me...

I don't have empower either, past life wizard instead.
Also you're explaining what I said in one sentence when I spoke about versatibility. Also said that durability was about the same... I was just replying to someone who said that wiz had more dps over sorc, that is all and I don't think it is the case. From experience, it is even less the case on long term since they have less SP. Also quicken, if you use it all the time drains it further more.

Since I personally adopt a gamestyle where my priority is to CC mobs with nerve venom before they reach the group, I usually end up using alot of SP (meteor swarming alot) and quicken would be overkill in many cases. I also don't need it for failing concentration check because I rather use wings/kite then get hit in melee range. Those wings... definatly a big big advantage as well. The SLAs wizard gets though are indeed very very nice.


If this was adressed to OP, sorry... All it is about is a Wiz build, nothing relevant to sorc. A nice built one around the destiny.

About the build : I can't remember right now if energy of the scholar 4 is needed as Pre-Req (think it is 3) but you might wanna consider using those points in the electric crit line for more sonic damage since it procs alot. If you don't play out of the Shiradi destiny, I think I would also consider dropping Int 3 (bit of SP, one almost irrelevant DC) to pump it up even more. Or maybe a bit in the fire line, that fire dot is insane.

[AtomicMew]

My sorc has all 3 mental tougness and sorc PL.
My sorc can chain cast magic and force missiles without any cooldown in between. Also can chain cast chain missiles and meteor swarm without any CD in between once 15% reduce is twisted from magister. (Without quicken)
My sorc/pal has over 60 in every saves, all the time, it doesn't need evasion.

I said that it loses in versatibility because for some people having fun is more important than crushing content 100% of the time. I think those care.
For EE, same with the sorc.

All I said is that sorc do more dps in the end but loses versatibility. Both are great builds and do enought dps to be a game changer while retaining a great level of survivability.

I love my shiradi sorc, but you're a bit off to think that it does more (sustainable) DPS compared to the wiz. Free metas on force SLAs 2x's the DPS on the SLAs. It's cool that you can rotate 2-3 spells without cooldown on a sorc, but a wiz has no shortage of efficient spells to spam, you just need a larger rotation involving more spells.

The actual difference between sorc and wiz shiradi is the fact that the wiz has more sustainable DPS due to free metas and higher DCs, whereas a sorc obviously has higher burst DPS, it's not sustainable. A wiz is also more innately sturdy, due to having evasion and enough feats to fit in things like mithral body and improved fortification with no loss in DCs, whereas a sorc relies on movement, wings and knockdown immunity to avoid damage. Both builds have amazing and comparable saves.

[Azarddoze]

I love my shiradi sorc, but you're a bit off to think that it does more (sustainable) DPS compared to the wiz. Free metas on force SLAs 2x's the DPS on the SLAs. It's cool that you can rotate 2-3 spells without cooldown on a sorc, but a wiz has no shortage of efficient spells to spam, you just need a larger rotation involving more spells.

The actual difference between sorc and wiz shiradi is the fact that the wiz has more sustainable DPS due to free metas and higher DCs, whereas a sorc obviously has higher burst DPS, it's not sustainable. A wiz is also more innately sturdy, due to having evasion and enough feats to fit in things like mithral body and improved fortification with no loss in DCs, whereas a sorc relies on movement, wings and knockdown immunity to avoid damage. Both builds have amazing and comparable saves.

Possibly. I did try both wiz (20 wiz) and sorc/pal shiradi and from what I felt, the sorc was doing better dps wise but maybe I am wrong.

SLAs: Maximized and empowered, they are nice but the difference in a force missle and chain missle dps once those metas on isn't that much higher. Same with the procs, they will be stronger, but really not that much. On sorc, while they may not be empowered or maximized, they will crit more, and those crits will do more damage (investment in crit lines). Fair trade off, can't say which ends up better as I TRed that wiz and can't test both atm (and the randomness).

When it comes to burst, as a sorc I also had to invest in improve maximize 2, giving me more sustainable maximized spells when needed.

As for survivability, both achieve the same, trading wings for evasion. Heavy fort is not a problem to slot
Granted most of the DPS (and stuns) of shiradi comes from procs, what could be better than sustainable faster casting (Edit: add more crit/crit damage to those procs)? If you can come with an answer to that, I might change my mind.

Also I still wanna add that my playstyle involves alot of meteor swarm (Edit:bad information) and those are not available as a SLAs so in my own situation, having more SP is better.

[Matuse]

Also I still wanna add that my playstyle involves alot of meteor swarm/chain missles and those are not available as a SLAs so in my own situation, having more SP is better.

You might want to take a closer look at the Evocation Archmage Tier3 SLA.