End Game Shiradi Help (Changing Savants)

[thesnoman]

OK – Here’s the deal – I’ve got a Warforged 18 Sorc / 2 Pal / 4 Epic (Almost 5) with full Shiradi. The twist is that he’s an Earth Savant. I’m toying with the idea of Lesser Reincarnating into an Air Savant, but my Feats, Enhancements, and some of the gear I’ve got (most notably the Epic Boots of Corrosion) is specced toward Conjuration and Acid Damage.

What I’d like to do is get some better ideas about gear, feats and enhancements before I LR.

Feats:
Toughness
Maximize Spell
Heighten Spell (was primarily for Web and SLAs)
Quicken Spell (For Reconstruct)
Spell Focus: Conjuration
Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
Spell Focus: Evocation
Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration
Great Charisma

I know I'm going to swap out my Conjuration Feats for Evocation what do I do with the one spare Feat?

Enhancements (I need help getting more in the Force Lines):
Maximize I & II (6 AP) - Required for Savant Line
Racial Toughness I & II (3 AP)
Earth Savant I, II, & III (8 AP) – Change to Air Savant
Corrosive Spellcasting I – VI (6 AP) – Change to Charged Spellcasting
Kinetic Spellcasting I – V (5 AP)
Deadly Acid I – VI (6 AP) – Change to Deadly Shocks
Deadly Kinetics I (1 AP) -
Sorc Energy of the Dragonblooded I – IV (10 AP)
Acid Manipulation I – VII (7 AP) – Change to Storm Manipulation
Force Manipulation I – VII (7 AP)
Repair Manipulation I (1 AP)
Sorc Charisma I, II, & III (12 AP)
Paladin Toughness I (1 AP)
WF Constitution I & II (6 AP)
Inscribed Armor I (1 AP)

Gear (Again – Need some more help, esp. deciding on whether to take the Epic Blue Dragon Set and how to fit in all of my + Stats)

Docent: Stone Heart +8 Constitution version w/Battle Arcanist
Bracers: War Wizard Bracers
Ring 1: Epic Ring of Elemental Essence (for +90 Ice SP for Ice Storm)/Seal of House Szind +7 Cha Version
Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion (Want to keep Slippery Surface Immunity)
Gloves: Purp Dragon Gauntlets
Ring 2: Radiant Ring with Insightful Charisma +2 (total +3 Cha)
Belt: Belt of Seven Ideals (Epic Hard Version)
Cloak: Epic Cloak of Night (ML 24 version)
Trinket: Epic TH Spyglass/Planar Focus of Erudition +8 Cha/Swap in clickies
Necklace: War Wizard Amulet
Helm: Epic Chimera’s Crown (For 25 Spell Resistance)
Goggles: GS HP Goggles

Weapon: Bronze Ingot Arcanum (Acid) - I have Copper as well for Elec.
Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity

I have tons of other (Epic) gear as well - I spent a lot of time farming gear in my first life. Any suggestions on additional gear are welcome (Blue Dragon set??)


Also wondering which spells to choose here's my lineup now (underlined will not change without really good reason):

Lvl 1: Jump, Magic Missile, Nightshield, Protection from Evil
Lvl 2: Blur, Knock, Resist Energy, Web
Lvl 3: Acid Blast, Chain Missiles, Displacement, Haste
Lvl 4: Acid Rain, DDoor, Ice Storm, Solid Fog
Lvl 5: Cloudkill, Prismatic Ray, Prot. From Elements, Teleport
Lvl 6: Acid Fog, Disintegrate, Reconstruct
Lvl 7: FoD, Dancing Ball, Prismatic Spray
Lvl 8: BDB, PWS
Lvl 9: Meteor Storm

[Kamode_Corebasher]

In my opinion, I'd advise you to take only one focus feat...your shiradi effects aren't reliant on DCs, and DC's are now HORRIBLY ineffective for those with DCs in the mid 50s low 60s <--so you making an effort at a 40 DC is not worthwhile.

[thesnoman]

Every build I've seen has all three tiers of SF: Evocation - an explanation would be nice.

Also, I'm 36-point build.

Should I go with 20 CON or 18 Con and split up the build points between Str, Dex (reflex save), and Int (Skill Points)?

[Kamode_Corebasher]

Every build I've seen has all three tiers of SF: Evocation - an explanation would be nice.

Also, I'm 36-point build.

Should I go with 20 CON or 18 Con and split up the build points between Str, Dex (reflex save), and Int (Skill Points)?

Explanation = evo dc's are still worthwhile if going away from acid and into another element like electric, but even then the game post u14 is really different. Landing chain lightning and ball lightning aren't as big a deal post u14 as energy burst and the like are substituting those in a big way....and without DCs (just high score in cha or int). Add to that the direction of your original post (Shiradi epic destiny) and evocation DC's are not needed unless you plan to rely on chain lightning dmg numbers instead of proc ability. To restate, those builds you reference are out-dated.

[thesnoman]

I stand corrected - looking at Mech's Shiradi Sorc I now see that he's only got SF:Evo once.

[WruntJunior]

I stand corrected - looking at Mech's Shiradi Sorc I now see that he's only got SF:Evo once.

I'd rather have Epic Mental Toughness than SF:Evo (and I take sorc past life for my savant qualifier). Even +3 evo DC does almost nothing for me when I don't use evo DC spells almost ever - by comparison, extra mana has often made a difference in amount of pots (if any) it takes to solo EEs.

I'd only really take SF:Evo if I don't have a first-life sorc (which is why Mech's build takes it - it's supposed to be a first-life build, iirc).

I went with 18 Con, though...Int was more important to me, to pick up skill points (along with 2 points in Str for low levels).

[AtomicMew]

Evocation DCs are important, but they aren't necessarily more important than other options. The main combo in shiradi is to gather up mobs -> ice storm -> solid fog -> energy burst -> primal scream -> meteor swarm -> mop up with chain missile/magic missile etc. The solid fog helps to keep all of your DCs relevant while being excellent no-save CC.

However, being that your paladin splashed and warforged, you're already committed to the fact that you aren't full on DPS since you sacrifice some DC and spellpower for survivability. That's perfectly okay, but your feat list should reflect that and not be full on DPS either. You probably want to fit in epic toughness somewhere.

I'd also suggest fitting in empower. Sometimes you want stuff to die ASAP, SP be damned, blue dragon in Tor is an excellent example.

For spellpower enhancements, you want to fit in some firespell power. Ideally you'd want 7/1/1 into fire as well.

[WruntJunior]

Evocation DCs are important, but they aren't necessarily more important than other options. The main combo in shiradi is to gather up mobs -> ice storm -> solid fog -> energy burst -> primal scream -> meteor swarm -> mop up with chain missile/magic missile etc. The solid fog helps to keep all of your DCs relevant while being excellent no-save CC.

However, being that your paladin splashed and warforged, you're already committed to the fact that you aren't full on DPS since you sacrifice some DC and spellpower for survivability. That's perfectly okay, but your feat list should reflect that and not be full on DPS either. You probably want to fit in epic toughness somewhere.

I'd also suggest fitting in empower. Sometimes you want stuff to die ASAP, SP be damned, blue dragon in Tor is an excellent example.

For spellpower enhancements, you want to fit in some firespell power. Ideally you'd want 7/1/1 into fire as well.

I agree with this somewhat - epic toughness is useful.

Empower isn't that useful of a feat, imo, unless you rely on SLAs a lot - I got rid of it and noticed literally no change. It just doesn't give enough bang on a shiradi to be worth the feat.

However, on a shiradi sorc, you don't need DCs...I have literally never been in a situation since I TRed into a sorc where I thought "I wish my DCs were high enough"...when the main spells you spam are MM/CM/(maybe FM - I greatly prefer it to Solid Fog, but some people prefer Solid Fog)/MS, you literally have no need for spell DCs. I'm really not getting why people say "evocation DCs are important" and then say they use meteor swarm and the missile spells for the brunt of their DPS (after energy burst...interestingly enough, Sense Weakness can be a much better boost in many EE quests than Energy Burst, btw - it's main use is actually when going slower to try to conserve mana, imo, or when enemies are immune to nerve venom or the like).

Side-note, 18 sorc/2 pally sacrifices no DCs (and only loses out on 20 spell power). CL isn't even an issue, as MCL is more of an issue than anything now.

[thesnoman]

Thanks Wrunt - Forgot you could use PL: Sorc as a qualifier for Savants

Sooo... FM is worth taking - good to know

How about gear? Anything specific I'm missing?

What about Prismatic Spray?

[WruntJunior]

Thanks Wrunt - Forgot you could use PL: Sorc as a qualifier for Savants

Sooo... FM is worth taking - good to know

How about gear? Anything specific I'm missing?

Green Scale - it'll free 2 gear slots.

Superior Parrying Bracers and +25% fort necklace.

Health 8 on a ring.

I'll post my planned gear list here (about half-way there, but need almost everything at once for it to work) - EH for easy to get and still works fine, but ideally everything is EE:

Helm: EH Helm of the White Dragon (+3 Con) - PRR +14/Globe of True Imperial Blood
Necklace: Fortifying +25% Necklace
Trinket: Planar Focus of Erudition (+3 Cha)
Goggles: Con Op SP Item
Armor: Cormyrian Green Scale Docent
Cloak: EH Ghost-Waking Cloak
Belt: EH Belt of the Seven Ideals - False Life +35
Bracers: Bracers of the Sun Soul
Gloves: MinII HP Item
Boots: EN Treads of Falling Shadow
Ring 1: Health +8 Ring
Ring 2: Swap Slot (Ring of the Djinn, EE Ring of Shadows for soloing melee-heavy content, etc...just not seeing much in the way of good rings)
Weapon: Twilight - Reconstruction +120/Magnetism +114

Edit: BTW, I'm not geared out for savant-based. >_> Only thing I'd change if I swapped savants is the magnetism gem that'll be in my Twilight...but honestly, I only have savant for Air Savant 3's incredibly powerful abilities.

[thesnoman]

I'll post my planned gear list here (about half-way there, but need almost everything at once for it to work) - EH for easy to get and still works fine, but ideally everything is EE:

Helm: EH Helm of the White Dragon (+3 Con) - PRR +14/Globe of True Imperial Blood OK - Understand why on this + the slots
Necklace: Fortifying +25% Necklace Is 125% not high enough?
Trinket: Planar Focus of Erudition (+3 Cha)Gotcha on this too
Goggles: Con Op SP Item I've got HP GS HP item here now
Armor: Cormyrian Green Scale Docent
Cloak: EH Ghost-Waking Cloak For Cha+8 only?
Belt: EH Belt of the Seven Ideals - False Life +35 understand this one too
Bracers: Bracers of the Sun Soul for superior parrying
Gloves: MinII HP Item See goggles - probably will end up with Con-Op here
Boots: EN Treads of Falling Shadow Striding 30% and Dex. I've got Quiver of Alacrity so striding doesn't matter to me - I'd rather slot Dex+7 and Ins Dex +2 somewhere - plenty of slots in gear setup - can't go without Slip.Surf. Immunity
Ring 1: Health +8 Ring easy enough to get
Ring 2: Swap Slot (Ring of the Djinn, EE Ring of Shadows for soloing melee-heavy content, etc...just not seeing much in the way of good rings)
Weapon: Twilight - Reconstruction +120/Magnetism +114

Notes inserted above

[AtomicMew]

I agree with this somewhat - epic toughness is useful.

Empower isn't that useful of a feat, imo, unless you rely on SLAs a lot - I got rid of it and noticed literally no change. It just doesn't give enough bang on a shiradi to be worth the feat.

However, on a shiradi sorc, you don't need DCs...I have literally never been in a situation since I TRed into a sorc where I thought "I wish my DCs were high enough"...when the main spells you spam are MM/CM/(maybe FM - I greatly prefer it to Solid Fog, but some people prefer Solid Fog)/MS, you literally have no need for spell DCs. I'm really not getting why people say "evocation DCs are important" and then say they use meteor swarm and the missile spells for the brunt of their DPS (after energy burst...interestingly enough, Sense Weakness can be a much better boost in many EE quests than Energy Burst, btw - it's main use is actually when going slower to try to conserve mana, imo, or when enemies are immune to nerve venom or the like).

Side-note, 18 sorc/2 pally sacrifices no DCs (and only loses out on 20 spell power). CL isn't even an issue, as MCL is more of an issue than anything now.

I take both force missile and solid fog.

Sense weakness is okay, but energy burst is superior if you bother to ball mobs up like you should. Even if mobs save, it's still ~1500 damage per mob for an average of 7500 against a typical mob of five. On the same note, meteor swarm is irreplaceable against trash mobs. It's far superior to taking mobs down one by one with magic/force missiles and it's DC based.

[WruntJunior]

I take both force missile and solid fog.

Sense weakness is okay, but energy burst is superior if you bother to ball mobs up like you should. Even if mobs save, it's still ~1500 damage per mob for an average of 7500 against a typical mob of five. On the same note, meteor swarm is irreplaceable against trash mobs. It's far superior to taking mobs down one by one with magic/force missiles and it's DC based.

My thoughts are, the use of energy burst is based on the speed at which you go, the element of your energy burst, and the quest you're doing (as an air savant that mainly uses electric energy burst, I have to think about the last two a lot) - if you're going fast, you'll gain more damage through sense weakness most of the time (for example, when solo farming EEs, I almost always would gain more from energy burst)...what you use the tier-4 twist on is pretty situational to how to you play it (and something to consider changing on a per-quest basis - after all, twists shouldn't be set in stone (though, for example, Endless Faith seems to be)).

For spells, level 4 is one of those tough ones...I personally went DDoor/Enervation/Force Missile/Ice Storm. All comes down to what you use most (and honestly, if it wasn't for cast speed, I'd scroll enervation...since I'm trying to beat EE orange-named neg level regen generally, scrolling it just isn't sufficient to me for removing 15-30k HP for ~3 spell casts). I'd assume you have solid fog in place of enervation, which is definitely not a bad idea - but pretty much every spell decision is weighed against losing something good here. I almost feel like the extra spell selection is what makes these builds individual.

[WruntJunior]

Notes inserted above

Just noticed this (6 days later).

Necklace - gets me to 150% (which has been plenty)...I have a diplo one as well, so I can pop my tea off no-fail immediately if I want. :P This is a swap slot for me, though.

Greensteel slots - obviously dependent on what you already have, too.

Cloak - Resistance +7 as well, and the DR can be nice (though more-so on non-EE difficulties).

Boots - everything on them is useful (especially when, like me, you have the EE version). I've thought about Slip Surface Immunity...but it's hard for me to give up my boots.

[thesnoman]

Well - I'm finishing my gear set and, while I am missing a few things, I'm pretty happy with it. I've put notes in so everyone can see why I chose these items. Following the gear list is additional notes and what I'm hoping to fit in when 100% complete.

Helm: EH Helm of the Blue Dragon w/ +3 Cha (PRR 14 and Ex Cha. +1 Slotted)
Necklace: Fortifying +25% Necklace of Natural Armor +6 150% Fort is REALLY nice to have in EE and didn't want to slot Nat Armor +6/+7
Trinket: Planar Focus of Erudition (+8 Charisma) +3 Ins Cha still eludes me see helm
Goggles: Min II GS Goggles
Armor: Flawless Blue DS Docent (Con +7 Slotted) Farming Green Scaes, Lose toughness and -10% SP cost. This hasn't hampered me much, but I sometimes miss both. Hoping for Toughness Augment in next update
Cloak: EE Mantle of the Dragonfriend (False Life +35 and Int +7 Slotted) Doubles +8 Charisma for swapping Trinket for PLIS and gives +20 Diplo for Joy
Belt: EH Girdle of Giants' Brawn (Resist +7 and Str+2 slotted) Needed a +8 Str item with slots - this fit the bill and Belt of Seven Ideals doubles up everything on my Blue Docent and Twilight
Bracers: Bracers of the Sun Soul Superior Parrying AND Ins. Con +2
Gloves: Con-Op Gloves w/ Blindness Immunity instead of Wizardry for first tier
Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion (Dex +7 and Ins. Dex +1 Slotted) Slippery Surface Immunity/Earthgrab Guard/Stone Prison Guard Plus two slots Can't find a reason to go to any other boots - plus had them from levelling as Earth Savant
Ring 1: EH Ancient Band (Deathblock Slotted) Protection +7 and a Slot
Ring 2: EH Ring of Shadows (Ex. Con +1 Slotted) Perma Blur and Ghostly. Hide and Move Silently are a bonus given the state of Invisibility currently
Weapon: Twilight - Currently T1 -Will eventually have Reconstruction and Magnetism on it.
Quiver: Upgraded Quiver of Alacrity Striding +30%

Notes:

• Globe of True Imperial Blood is eluding me, but will slot in Helm and eliminate all Ex +1 Augments. These May be replaced by +2 Augments where needed for even stats
• Maybe I'll get a Draconic Soul Gem on my 20th FoT...that will fill a slot as well.
• Hot Swap Ring of the Djinn for Reaver Tanking/EE Tor Blue Dragon
• Hot Swap PLIS for Reaver Tanking - Cha +8 on Cloak makes this painless.

Let me know what you think. I'm happy with it and I'm still farming FGDS so I can swap around a few things when the 10% SP bonus is needed, but it hasn't been so far.

[thesnoman]

For reference, here are the twists I find especially useful:

• Unearthly Reactions (Tier 1 Magister) +3% dodge/+6 Reflex Save
• Energy Sheath (Tier 1 Draconic Incarnation) Electric- for tanking Stormreaver
• Endless Faith (Tier 1 Exhalted Angel) Gotta have the extra 10% Spell Points
• Perfect Balance (Tier 1 GMoF) A New one I'm playing with - +3% dodge that stacks with Unearthly Reactions - good for EE Tor in a group instead of Endless Faith
• Boulder Toss (Tier 1 FoTW) Meh - use when ED farming for extra DPS
• Sense Weakness (Tier 4 FoTW) - Amazing when nerve toxin hits - just racks up the damage
• Energy Burst (Tier 4 Draconic Incarnation) Instant 1500 - 10,000 damage to surrounding MOB. 20 SP cost - very efficient for high DPS. Reflex Saves for half, but still substantial.

Things I'm planning on trying, or don't use much, but are still worth mentioning:

• Brace for Impact (Tier 1 Unyeilding Sentinal) For when you absolutely have to have an additional 40% Fortification - not used since adding 25% fort Necklace
• Rejuvination Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal Avatar) Not used often
• Supple as a Spring (Tier 2 Primal Avatar) +3% dodge to all near me when hit in combat - not used often since it is a Tier 2
• Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer) +6 Reflex Save and +6 AC - Not sure yet on this one - needs more testing.
• Endless Lay on Hands (Tier 3 Unyeilding Sentinal) Situational - Not used often since adding other twists and equipment has really slowed down how often I need to cast reconstruct.
• Stormrage (Tier 4 Primal Avatar) Testing - I'll let you all know how it works.
• Spell School Familiarity (Tier 4 Magister) - Can't twist this due to lack of pre-requisute (SF:Evo), but worth mentioning as it lowers spell cooldowns by 15% - could be useful and may feat swap to test it out. Possibly this means you can swap out force missiles due to fast cooldown on MM