Why so grindy?

[Ape_Man]

Anyways, I'm gonna keep the wallet closed (even though I'm due for a TP purchase) until we know more about the future. All we've gotten to preview are the so-called 'money grabs'. Don't want to shell out cash in the HOPES that coolness is coming--though to be fair, as often as they've made me doubt them in the past, they often pull through in the end...I'm just waiting for the one last time when the beancounters REALLY have control, then it's all over.

me to, i still feel borderline swindled from the last pre-order.

[rimble]

What scales have any value? Serious question.

Reds haven't been rare in ages and the black armor is BETTER than the red.

Greens . . . there are better things for the body slot.

White/black/blue . . . good drop rates means people will be swimming in scales.

Well, ok...retroactively (before U17)...was kinda speaking past tense since I haven't played much since U17. Got so tired of grinding gear I TRd, then I got tired of the TR, hehe.

[Thrudh]

What makes it grindy is people's obsession with having THE BEST equipment, instead of the second best (which is easily acquired).

This.

[Cyr]

The only saving grace for the new loot mechanics are that non-raid loot isn't bound and can be traded.

Funny thing is the new loot's best value to me is to turn around and hawk it for stuff you can not loot. There are such a limited number of items in the game that I actually find interesting that almost everything else I find to be over valued junk.

That is due to the mediocre quality of almost every piece of new loot out there. The 'second best' is often basically the same thing for almost any character I would put it on and a fraction of the cost.

[samthedagger]

I think there is a growing consensus in the player base that the old method of farming for seals, shards, and scrolls is no longer necessary in the current game environment. When the level limit was 20 and we had no epic destinies, they had to give you something to do at endgame (besides TR because otherwise there would be no point of having a capped toon), and that was grind for epic seals, shards, and scrolls to get the best loot. But now we can grind for epic destiny XP, farm for EE loot (which is a challenge), and do all kinds of crafting and slotting at endgame.

The ideal solution would be for them to revamp all the old epic items, creating EH and EE versions. Existing versions would be the EN versions. But since that will undoubtedly take some work, I think a quick stop-gap to help things out would be to a) allow shard and seal trading, b) increase the drop-rate to something like 5%/10%/15%, and/or c) allow a selection of 10 random seals/shards on every third completion of a chain (or a smaller selection on every completion). Right now, I think the drop rates for seals and shards is in low single digits and fractional digits, which just isn't necessary to get items that aren't that great anymore. After implementing one or more of these changes they can work on updating the items for a future update in the meantime. If we are lucky they are already working on this and just haven't told us yet. But the increased availability of shards/seals needs to happen ASAP.

But the problem isn't that the game is grindy. All MMOs are grindy. They have to keep you playing the game somehow. It's just that yesterdays grind is no longer really relevant. The vast majority of old epic items that required seals/shards are no longer even worthwhile and are outclassed by randon loot gen items or other more easily-acquired named items. There are a few of the old epic items that are still very useful, but they aren't so good they justify the grind. It's an outdated system and they need to update it.

[Ape_Man]

I think there is a growing consensus in the player base that the old method of farming for seals, shards, and scrolls is no longer necessary in the current game environment. When the level limit was 20 and we had no epic destinies, they had to give you something to do at endgame (besides TR because otherwise there would be no point of having a capped toon), and that was grind for epic seals, shards, and scrolls to get the best loot. But now we can grind for epic destiny XP, farm for EE loot (which is a challenge), and do all kinds of crafting and slotting at endgame.

The ideal solution would be for them to revamp all the old epic items, creating EH and EE versions. Existing versions would be the EN versions. But since that will undoubtedly take some work, I think a quick stop-gap to help things out would be to a) allow shard and seal trading, b) increase the drop-rate to something like 5%/10%/15%, and/or c) allow a selection of 10 random seals/shards on every third completion of a chain (or a smaller selection on every completion). Right now, I think the drop rates for seals and shards is in low single digits and fractional digits, which just isn't necessary to get items that aren't that great anymore. After implementing one or more of these changes they can work on updating the items for a future update in the meantime. If we are lucky they are already working on this and just haven't told us yet. But the increased availability of shards/seals needs to happen ASAP.

But the problem isn't that the game is grindy. All MMOs are grindy. They have to keep you playing the game somehow. It's just that yesterdays grind is no longer really relevant. The vast majority of old epic items that required seals/shards are no longer even worthwhile and are outclassed by randon loot gen items or other more easily-acquired named items. There are a few of the old epic items that are still very useful, but they aren't so good they justify the grind. It's an outdated system and they need to update it.

Nah, leave the old junk alone and just up the drop rates.

That said . .. I'd pay real money if I could get blue-slots on my Claw sets and Mabar cloaks.

[msdesign]

Wow pretty much me and a friend were talking yesterday and we came to the same conclusion, we just don't care anymore about getting the newest items...not worth the work or money if you pay tp for them. We pickup and use what we can now making small twinks here and there. No more hamster wheels for us.

You said it all

This is why I don't farm, grind, or whatever. I just play with the things I loot, others I buy in AH, and one special case on my TRd sorc because I had the chance to get GS materials to get a sp necklace for her (it was not too hard anyway).

But I know the pain of grinding scrolls, shards, etc. Would like very much to upgrade my Silver Slinger and Luminus Truth, but, I play for the fun, and not to eternally grind.

[danzig138]

The bugged drop rates in this chain are detailed quite well in certain threads on the forums.

Yep. Of course, for the average player, we need to remember that they dont' visit the forums so documentation on the forums means very little ultimately.