Aren't artificers a bit over-powered?

[Wulverine]

I ask this in complete seriousness: have you run a pure ranged/caster artificer at level 24/25 in endgame content?

My main is currently a completionist ranged dps Arti with max destinies. I didnt plan to be an Arti but i liked the class and decided to try it out for a while as a completionist. I will probably soon TR again and settle on something else, although i might try a Juggernaut. I have solo'd tons of EE content with him. Originally planned to be in Shadowdancer, I found the dps it added to be very small, but very nice defensewise. Draconic sucked for me, you should just twist in energy burst. While the base dps that shiradi adds to a xbow through procs is small compared to destinies such as fury or dreadnaught, Pin and Whistler adds tons of dps alone (depending on party, but absolutely amazing when soloing).

And yes, i know, burst single target dps is nothing compared to something like a fury manyshot. But then what is?
How much sustained dps would a Fury STR based (non manyshot) bard do? Fury monk? Fury pally? Care to make a ballpark guess? How many thousands of DPS per second on average?

All im saying is that it's not as bad as some people seem to think it is, *if* you build and play for dps. But then when I see Arti's running around and even completely forgetting they have a runearm, I understand why arti's have that image. Kind of the same feeling i get when i see (dark) monks with full Ki bars all the time.

Lazy players can make anything look bad.

[Loriac]

My main is currently a completionist ranged dps Arti with max destinies. I didnt plan to be an Arti but i liked the class and decided to try it out for a while as a completionist. I will probably soon TR again and settle on something else, although i might try a Juggernaut. I have solo'd tons of EE content with him. Originally planned to be in Shadowdancer, I found the dps it added to be very small, but very nice defensewise. Draconic sucked for me, you should just twist in energy burst. While the base dps that shiradi adds to a xbow through procs is small compared to destinies such as fury or dreadnaught, Pin and Whistler adds tons of dps alone (depending on party, but absolutely amazing when soloing).

And yes, i know, burst single target dps is nothing compared to something like a fury manyshot. But then what is?
How much sustained dps would a Fury STR based (non manyshot) bard do? Fury monk? Fury pally? Care to make a ballpark guess? How many thousands of DPS per second on average?

All im saying is that it's not as bad as some people seem to think it is, *if* you build and play for dps. But then when I see Arti's running around and even completely forgetting they have a runearm, I understand why arti's have that image. Kind of the same feeling i get when i see (dark) monks with full Ki bars all the time.

Lazy players can make anything look bad.

I'm currently playing a juggernaut build (non-completionist) and my last life was a capped pure ranged/caster arty. I completely agree with you re: use of runearms and other class features - pure artys that don't use runearms are wasting a huge perk of the class. What I'm finding now that I've capped the juggernaut is that the difference in damage is huge - whilst I don't have the 2-3k every 6 seconds from the runearm, the basic melee damage makes up for this, and the gains in mobility are huge (this was actually the thing I disliked the most about the arty - the run speed is horrible when you're actively using the runearm).

Once you factor in fury (or blitz), the melee builds pull so far ahead of the ranged arty that its like night and day. Sure you can pin and otto's, both excellent abilities in shiradi, but they pale in comparision to overwhelming force. Meanwhile, manyshot + fury is extremely high burst damage.

I would guess that my damage is roughly doubled under a fury manyshot burst than when using melee weapons. In fairness, its a difficult comparison to make, because typically you'll use adrenaline + melee on trash, which non-manyshot toons can do just as effectively. Under these circumstances, you'll get the helpless status condition applied which brings damage up vs. that trash. I tend to reserve manyshot + fury for boss fights. In those situations you don't get the helpless status applied, so whilst you're firing 4 arrows per shot, they don't get the +80% damage they would on trash.

Even when I don't use manyshot, the juggernaut is doing more damage than he was as a pure arty (from all sources combined). With manyshot, the burst damage is excellent for when its needed, and exceeds any capability that the pure arty had in that area.