Wanna help me with my AA?

[Zerenety]

Hello, guys.

I just came back from a year break from the game, and have played a TRed Wizard to lvl 9 now.
Though, I'm starting to miss the archery and all the tactical play that one had to take into consideration to get decent damage.

When I started this game, the first thing I had in mind was bow and arrow.
I have allways LOVED the concept, and think DDO has some interesting twists on the matter.

So I started playing a pure ranger. I had alot of fun, a bit boring with all the auto granted feats, but hey! I had a bow in my hands atleast.
Then the real letdown came. I was granted Two Handed Fighting.
I was like, uuuummm... yeah.. I allways hated melee in most games. So i'll just skip the whole thing and shoot some arrows.
If I wanna melee, I would just roll something different, like a Monk.
I kept the mindset throughout lvl 1-20, and found myself in a jack off all trades.

I was really let down at that point, and started playing a Wizard. Who was much easier to place in a oriented group of players.
It was fun ofc, but I allways missed that bow.
Must say it was a big factor for me quitting the game for as long as i did.


But now I'm Back! And I'm ready to experiment and make an Archer that fits my playstyle.
Obviously, I want to do next to NO MELEE AT ALL.
I can remember how hard it was to discuss this NO-MELEE mindset with people on the forums, allways advising me to get some melee when key abilities was on CD.
And they definetely have a point. Archery has difficulties keeping up with DPS when they are down.
But I have allways loved to play tactical. Allways loved to look for something that might work out and be different.
And thats why I love DDO. Multiclassing is absolutely fantastic.

So, how to think and set up a build that is ment for just that. Be versatile and shoot arrows.
I remember experimenting with Rogue and Monk.
Rogue. For some great versatility in skillpoint selection and some cool Sneak Attack.
Monk. For good defences and saves, with cool speed and abundant step.
In the end, I think I ended up with Monk to better handle Aggro situations, and not die when they stated hitting me.
Because, let's face it, people HATE running after mobs that an AA is kiting!
I remember I had to get Manabar and Mental Toughness (Arcane Prodigy) to qualify for AA.
I've allways loved Elf as a race, and have allways chosed it.
I remember wanting to splash rogue at the time, to get traps and stuff. Though I allways ended up spreading myself to thin on ability scores...


Thats about what I can gather from ontop off my head right now. I know I have plenty more info tucked away in my brain.
So, with all that said, I would like these factors to be the build i end up with:
- Elf
- Archery only
- Good versatility in Skill selection. I would love to have UMD as a favored class!
- Have good defensive options to fall back on when I grab aggro, and don't wanna kite.

I am also thinking about TRing this guy several times if I can find something that works.
Meaning lvl 21-25 is not really interesting yet. So let's stay with lvl 1-20.
But I don't really wanna play a rush build, that is just meant to reach lvl 20 asap to just TR at the spot.
I like to have some fun at the end aswell, gather some Plat and gear for comming lives.

That's all I wanted to say. Now, do you wanna help me with my AA?

[sephiroth1084]

I'll say that archers are fairly strong for the first 4-6 levels of the game, mediocre from 7 until you can get a Ki generating ability (Ocean Stance III), and then take a fair upturn in the epic levels where you get some solid special abilities and better Ki generation.

I had fun playing a pure archer, but I also skipped the mid levels with an XP stone.

The build ends up as a 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer, has Ten Thousand Stars, Manyshot, UMD, all of the monk's defensive and nifty abilities, trap skills (if you want them), and is fairly survivable. It's pretty mediocre for a lot of your leveling cycle, however. It's playable from 8-15, sure, but it's not spectacular.

[unbongwah]

- Have good defensive options to fall back on when I grab aggro, and don't wanna kite.

I'm not sure what "defensive options" you expect an archer with NO melee feats to have other than kiting.

Well, you can see my Triple A thread for examples of rogue 13 / rgr 6-based AAs. But those bounce between archery & TWF like...well, like a pure rgr, only with a lot more sneak atks. So that's probably not what you're looking for.

Or you could see my Bardcher thread for bard-based AA builds. Most take no melee feats (apart from TWF free from rgr 2). The idea is to have a mix of ranged DPS and bard buffs, heals, and CC (via songs). But the problem with them is they don't address the key weakness of archery in DDO: namely the low rate-of-fire of bows w/out Manyshot.

So then you're "stuck" looking at monkchers. And they're cool, but pretty stat- and clickie-intensive; plus they tend to be late bloomers, because until you have MS+10K Stars, your ranged DPS is no better than if you just had MS.

[blerkington]

Hi,

You probably won't be building for AC or PRR on an archer.

So, decent HP, a shield for blocking, the sap feat, blur and/or displacement from scroll or item, guard procs from certain items, and the diplomacy skill are some of the other useful defensive options.

Having said that, I think not building for melee is a bad idea. And you can minimise your aggro problems by not being that archer who fires on the mobs first every encounter.

Thanks.

[Zerenety]

I'll say that archers are fairly strong for the first 4-6 levels of the game, mediocre from 7 until you can get a Ki generating ability (Ocean Stance III), and then take a fair upturn in the epic levels where you get some solid special abilities and better Ki generation.

I had fun playing a pure archer, but I also skipped the mid levels with an XP stone.

The build ends up as a 12 monk/6 ranger/2 artificer, has Ten Thousand Stars, Manyshot, UMD, all of the monk's defensive and nifty abilities, trap skills (if you want them), and is fairly survivable. It's pretty mediocre for a lot of your leveling cycle, however. It's playable from 8-15, sure, but it's not spectacular.

Sounds pretty good, I have 1 thing in mind though.
Why do you build 6 ranger lvls with 2 arti lvls?
Ranger allready gives you manabar to qualify for AA.
Would'nt it be better to mix in Rogue for SA damage and more skillpoint?

I'm not sure what "defensive options" you expect an archer with NO melee feats to have other than kiting.

Well, you can see my Triple A thread for examples of rogue 13 / rgr 6-based AAs. But those bounce between archery & TWF like...well, like a pure rgr, only with a lot more sneak atks. So that's probably not what you're looking for.

Or you could see my Bardcher thread for bard-based AA builds. Most take no melee feats (apart from TWF free from rgr 2). The idea is to have a mix of ranged DPS and bard buffs, heals, and CC (via songs). But the problem with them is they don't address the key weakness of archery in DDO: namely the low rate-of-fire of bows w/out Manyshot.

So then you're "stuck" looking at monkchers. And they're cool, but pretty stat- and clickie-intensive; plus they tend to be late bloomers, because until you have MS+10K Stars, your ranged DPS is no better than if you just had MS.

That Rogue version might be fun too. allthough I wont switch between ranged and melee at all.
I'll see what I can come up with

[unbongwah]

If you're looking for something really challenging, you could try a monk / rogue AA like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 25 Lawful Neutral Elf Female
(6 Monk \ 13 Rogue \ 1 Wizard \ 5 Epic) 
Hit Points: 327
Spell Points: 280 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 18
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
Strength             12                    14
Dexterity            17                    21
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               16                    22
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Bow Strength


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 21 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 22 (Rogue)


Level 23 (Rogue)


Level 24 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sneak Attack


Level 25 (Rogue)

As with other monkchers, the idea is to alternate between MS & 10K Stars; the rog lvls means plenty of sneak atk dmg if you're in range and don't have aggro. Unfortunately, the severe feat shortage means you end up backloading a lot of things. Going WIS-based raises the proc chance on 10K Stars, as well as upping your AC & Will saves, of course.

A HE version w/rgr dilly could drop Bow STR to move the other ranged feats up sooner and add Precision somewhere. Another option is to drop Dodge & Ninja Spy, switch to light monk for the buffs, and take Precision instead of Dodge.

[sephiroth1084]

I'm not sure what "defensive options" you expect an archer with NO melee feats to have other than kiting.

Well, my AA has 12 monk levels, and is a Ninja Spy II, so he has a decent Dodge %, the ability to gain 25% incorporeal miss chance, has Earth Stance III for some PRR, HP and AC, has good Dex and Wis, and some monk AC, so he can also get a decent AC as well. I'm not talking tanking level AC and PRR, but enough, combined with the other stuff, to be fairly sturdy, even when facing a lot of aggro. Plus, he has Abundant Step, a lot of monk speed, and ranger Sprint Boost for situations in which he really needs to get away from something fast (or super-zerging).

Sounds pretty good, I have 1 thing in mind though.
Why do you build 6 ranger lvls with 2 arti lvls?
Ranger allready gives you manabar to qualify for AA.
Would'nt it be better to mix in Rogue for SA damage and more skillpoint?

Ranger ends up getting you more relevant feats and abilities than a similar number of fighter levels would: Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Manyshot vs. 4 feats from fighter for the same, while also adding wand usage, Ram's Might, and more skill points per level.

Artificer gets you Rapid Reload, which has been shown to confer somewhere around a +5% bonus to bow attack speed (Rapid Shot is a bigger boost for bows, and is flipped for crossbows, offering about a 5% bonus for them), quite a bit more SP, full access to UMD, Disable Device and Open Locks, Artificer Knowledge: Scrolls and Potions +1 (caster level is 1 higher for these consumables you use, and you have +2 UMD when using them), Damage Boost I (not major, but can be nice), Wand and Scroll Mastery I (a pretty big boost to the effective healing you get out of Heal scrolls), Enchant Weapon (+1 attack and damage is nice when you don't have a real artificer around), access to repair wands, and freed from having to take Mental Toughness by spending 1 AP instead on the artificer's SP enhancement.

Also, since you already are ranged-focused, the artificer levels will give you the option of swapping to a repeating crossbow in the mid-levels for better DPS, and then later when you don't have both Manyshot and 10K Stars, and for when you have both, but don't have a Ki Gen ability, since a repeater is going to be better DPS than firing a bow without Manyshot or 10K Stars running. Once you get some Ki Gen and have 10K Stars, becoming uncentered and draining your Ki becomes too much of a penalty to continue using a crossbow, but until then, it makes for a rather strong swap when timered on your archery volley abilities.

Rogue isn't a strong choice, because I went half-elf and picked up the Rogue Dilettante for +3d6 Sneak Attack damage, which doesn't stack with that granted by rogue levels, and already am getting Evasion from Monk.

If not artificer, I'd probably go with 2 fighter for a couple of extra feats and +1 Str, but I liked everything else the artificer provided better. It got me up to just about no-fail Heal scrolls by level 20, and well beyond by 25, even when debuffed a bit, which has been invaluable in tough endgame content, and having Heal scrolls that are hitting for 120+30% before applying healing amp is rather nice.

I also happen to like being able to handle traps, and especially like being able to fill multiple roles for a party on an archer since I will often be lagging behind on DPS. It means that when Manyshot and 10K Stars are both on cooldown, I can be helping the party with scroll healing, or can open up party spot options by also covering traps.

As far as feats go, I think I have:
4 ranger, 1 artificer, 3 monk, 7 standard, 2 epic (not in order)

1. Point Blank Shot
2. Precise Shot
3. Rapid Shot
4. Manyshot
5. Bow Strength
6. Zen Archery
7. Weapon Focus
8. Rapid Reload
9. Improved Critical
10. Improved Precise Shot
11. Toughness
12. Dodge
13. Precision
14. Combat Archery
15. ??
16. ??
17. ??

I don't remember what the other 3 feats I had were. Maybe Improved Martial Arts (although that wasn't working on bows the last time I logged on...maybe Greater <stat>?). You could drop Toughness and pick up Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave and Overwhelming Critical, but your stats become rather difficult to manage. You'd really want a 36 point build and +4 tomes for Str and Dex for a start, maybe Wis as well. I believe Combat Archery may still not be working, though, so you could skip that (and require a little less Dex) and go OC until that all gets worked out. IF it ever does.

[Zerenety]

Ranger ends up getting you more relevant feats and abilities than a similar number of fighter levels would: Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Manyshot vs. 4 feats from fighter for the same, while also adding wand usage, Ram's Might, and more skill points per level.

Artificer gets you Rapid Reload, which has been shown to confer somewhere around a +5% bonus to bow attack speed (Rapid Shot is a bigger boost for bows, and is flipped for crossbows, offering about a 5% bonus for them), quite a bit more SP, full access to UMD, Disable Device and Open Locks, Artificer Knowledge: Scrolls and Potions +1 (caster level is 1 higher for these consumables you use, and you have +2 UMD when using them), Damage Boost I (not major, but can be nice), Wand and Scroll Mastery I (a pretty big boost to the effective healing you get out of Heal scrolls), Enchant Weapon (+1 attack and damage is nice when you don't have a real artificer around), access to repair wands, and freed from having to take Mental Toughness by spending 1 AP instead on the artificer's SP enhancement.

If not artificer, I'd probably go with 2 fighter for a couple of extra feats and +1 Str, but I liked everything else the artificer provided better. It got me up to just about no-fail Heal scrolls by level 20, and well beyond by 25, even when debuffed a bit, which has been invaluable in tough endgame content, and having Heal scrolls that are hitting for 120+30% before applying healing amp is rather nice.

I also happen to like being able to handle traps, and especially like being able to fill multiple roles for a party on an archer since I will often be lagging behind on DPS. It means that when Manyshot and 10K Stars are both on cooldown, I can be helping the party with scroll healing, or can open up party spot options by also covering traps.

Wow, I had no idea it had such big impact with 2 atri lvls!
Definetely the build I'll be going for.

1 more question though.
I have been building this character many different ways now, and it seems like I can fit only 3 maxed skills in it.
This build need max Consentration and Max UMD, in addition to this I would need Search and Disable Device to be able to handle traps at all. And thats 4 skills.
I would like to have Spot aswell, since I don't really know any quest by heart. I don't really want to eather.
And I'm missing out on Balance, not a huge deal, but it's still fun to have.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Male
(12 Monk \ 6 Ranger \ 2 Artificer) 
Hit Points: 293
Spell Points: 365 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 17
Will: 21

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 19                   19
Dexterity            16                 19                   19
Constitution         13                 16                   16
Intelligence          8                 11                   11
Wisdom               16                 24                   27
Charisma              8                 11                   11

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               3                 18                   22
Bluff                -1                  0                    0
Concentration         5                 26                   29
Diplomacy            -1                  0                    0
Disable Device       n/a                n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                  0                    0
Heal                  3                  8                    8
Hide                  3                  4                    8
Intimidate           -1                  0                    0
Jump                  3                  4                    6
Listen                3                  8                   10
Move Silently         3                  4                    8
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                  0                    0
Search               -1                  0                    2
Spot                  7                 27                   29
Swim                  3                  4                    4
Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      3                 23                   26

Level 1 (Artificer)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Artificer)


Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Artificer Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise III
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Artificer Energy of Creation I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III
Enhancement: Artificer Wand and Scroll Mastery I

This build isn't build in the order I'm looking for, but I was trying to max 4 skills with it.
Ended up with 23 points in UMD and Concentration, 19 in Spot and 14 Balance.
Also put SF:UMD and Extend in there, because well, I didn't know what else to pick

Would you mind explaining how you get good trapping skills alongside with Concentration and UMD

[crabjuice]

I always like reading through the various archer builds found around here and thought it might be time to post another one. This one was influenced by the return to my current AA who uses an 11 ranger / 7x / 2x split. My brother and I have gone back and forth on archer builds for quite some time and I thought I might try to come up with another one he might like. In the very least it could be a good way to get a ranger past-life under your belt.

The 7 levels of fighter get you +2 strength, Haste Boost 3, kensai longbow and extra feats.

Please note that I took +4 tomes to all stats at lvl 15. The trick is to qualify for both the Overwhelming Critical and Combat Archery feats in the epic levels.
+2 strength and dex tomes are required and if you go this route you will have to remove points from charisma/int at start and bump up str/dex to 17 each.
Place ability raises accordingly to hit 23 strength at lvl 21 and 21 dex at lvl 24.

It is my understanding that Combat Archery is broken at this time. If you would like to stick with elf all you would change is bluff for another skill.

The two examples below are codenamed havok and destruction but after reading through this thread I'm liking the addition of 2 artificer levels. Here is what I have so far,

Half-Elf (Rogue Dilly) 11 Ranger / 7 Fighter / 2 xx (Lawful Good if Paladin is selected)
STATS 32 points
w/ +4 tomes
Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Chr: 12
w/ +2 tomes
Str: 17
Dex: 17
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Chr: 8


Leveling straight Ranger until 8 at which point it is necessary to take Fighter to qualify for Elven Arcane Archer. Finish off the ranger levels to get improved precise shot ASAP. Then complete the fighter levels to pickup the feats need for overwhelming critical and qualify for kensai with longbow. Finally two Paladin levels to shore up the defenses. These could easily be swapped out for another class to include handwraps, improve UMD or even pickup a few rages. Open to suggestions here.

FEATS by LEVEL
1. Toughness ~ FE: Undead ~ Half-Elf: Rogue Dilly
3. Point Blank Shot
6. Mental Toughness (to qualify for Elven AA)
8. Fighter Bonus - Weapon Focus: Ranged
12. Precision (works with ranged and stacks with ranged stances)
13. Fighter Bonus - Power Critical (this could be swapped for a melee feat for more balance)
15. Power Attack ~ Fighter Bonus- Weapon Spec: Ranged
17. Fighter Bonus - Cleave
18. Great Cleave
21. Overwhelming Critical
24. Combat Archery

SKILLS (HIGH > LOW PRIORITY)
UMD
Bluff
Concentration
Balance
Jump
Hide/Move Silently
Spot/Listen

Here is the planner for full breakdown of levels, feats, and enhancements.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Arcane Archer RFP
Level 25 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(7 Fighter \ 2 Paladin \ 11 Ranger \ 5 Epic)
Hit Points: 415
Spell Points: 386
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 19
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
Strength             16                    28
Dexterity            16                    22
Constitution         14                    18
Intelligence         10                    14
Wisdom                8                    12
Charisma             12                    16

Tomes Used
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15


Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)


Level 21 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Ranger)


Level 23 (Ranger)


Level 24 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Archery


Level 25 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost III
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame
Enhancement: Kensei Longbow Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Arcane Archer RFB
Level 25 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(7 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 11 Ranger \ 5 Epic)
Hit Points: 419
Spell Points: 375
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 18
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
Strength             16                    28
Dexterity            16                    22
Constitution         14                    18
Intelligence         10                    14
Wisdom                8                    12
Charisma             12                    16

Tomes Used
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 19 (Barbarian)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 21 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Ranger)


Level 23 (Ranger)


Level 24 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Archery


Level 25 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost III
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame
Enhancement: Kensei Longbow Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

Enjoy!

[Zerenety]

Enjoy!

Thanks!
Solid build for some ranger past lives for the future

[Therigar]

Now, do you wanna help me with my AA?

No.

Seriously, AA has a lot of people playing it and it is pretty weak compared to virtually every other combat style available. There are some people who are dead set on playing it, however, so you'll get some decent advice.

I will note that it comes into its own when you've filled in your whole epic destiny tree and can maximize twists along with the Shiradi destiny line. Until then it is really good thru L8 or so and then really bad until L18.

My recommendation to all AA is that they be really good at something else in addition to the AA. I look at AA as an add-on ability to be used based on the situation rather than as an "always on" combat stance. I also think it works better on a multiclass or pure fighter that can fit in all the feats and still go Kensai in a melee weapon while taking AA as an elf or half-elf racial PrE.

But, I'm not a big fan of AA as a primary combat stance -- I'm sure that those who like it will have other points of view.

[unbongwah]

Well, my AA has 12 monk levels, and is a Ninja Spy II, so he has a decent Dodge %, the ability to gain 25% incorporeal miss chance, has Earth Stance III for some PRR, HP and AC, has good Dex and Wis, and some monk AC, so he can also get a decent AC as well.

Sure, but do you just stand there turtling while you're getting hit, or do you either (A) kite with your bow or (B) fight back with melee? That's the part of the OP's request which puzzled me: he wanted a "defensive option" as an alternative to kiting, but didn't want to melee. Uhh, what's left? A Bardcher can CC via Fascinate, but that's about all I can think of.

Artificer gets you Rapid Reload, which has been shown to confer somewhere around a +5% bonus to bow attack speed

Are you sure about this? I thought historically RR was xbow-only; it also helps bows a bit, I feel better about taking an arty splash on one of my AAs.

[Zerenety]

Sure, but do you just stand there turtling while you're getting hit, or do you either (A) kite with your bow or (B) fight back with melee? That's the part of the OP's request which puzzled me: he wanted a "defensive option" as an alternative to kiting, but didn't want to melee. Uhh, what's left? A Bardcher can CC via Fascinate, but that's about all I can think of.

I can see where you're comming from.
We just have different understanding of the term "Options".
For me it just means that the build has survivability to the point where I don't need to run around in fear of getting 1 shot.
And it seems to me that the monkchers gives that, so I'm happy.
Sorry if it puzzled you

[Yin]

Hey bro,
Interestig thing about 11 ranger is that it qualifies you for every dex required feat sxcept combat archery. This means you could dump dex and replace it with wisdom (if you took zen archery). And since you also get improved evasion your at least only taking half damage on failed reflex save. 10k stars is rumored to become a feat in ehanceme t update so you could even keep fighter levels. As it stnds now, 10k stars nets you mini manyshot provided your wis is high enough. I beleive stunning fist uses wis as well so that could be a backup cc option of you went that route. You also have option of monk epic which grants .5w on ki weapons, shich the bow is.
Still, fighterhaste boost is pretty kmportant given that it helps with manyshot burst and stacks with ranged alacrity. Liking the thread too. Thanks crab...

[Yin]

Ps sorry about dookie spelling and grammer. Typing from a cracked iphone while at work

[crabjuice]

Artificer gets you Rapid Reload, which has been shown to confer somewhere around a +5% bonus to bow attack speed

I would like clarification on this as well please.

This means you could dump dex and replace it with wisdom (if you took zen archery). And since you also get improved evasion your at least only taking half damage on failed reflex save. 10k stars is rumored to become a feat in ehanceme t update so you could even keep fighter levels. As it stnds now, 10k stars nets you mini manyshot provided your wis is high enough. I beleive stunning fist uses wis as well so that could be a backup cc option of you went that route.

The idea with the 11 ranger split is as an alternative to all the Monkcher builds out there which already have elaborate breakdowns and seem to need ranger past-lives and a serious gear investment to shine. Adding the monk levels means having to take the zen archery feat and then bumping wisdom to support it. I'll look for the other threads that detail these builds as this would be a completely different setup and a more balanced one at that. My selections were made purely from a ranged focus but, admittedly, it leaves out 10k stars which seems to be touted as the only way to stay range full-time.

[sephiroth1084]

Sure, but do you just stand there turtling while you're getting hit, or do you either (A) kite with your bow or (B) fight back with melee? That's the part of the OP's request which puzzled me: he wanted a "defensive option" as an alternative to kiting, but didn't want to melee. Uhh, what's left? A Bardcher can CC via Fascinate, but that's about all I can think of.

Generally? I stand there, or move to someone better suited to be handling the aggro and start shooting a different enemy. That doesn't become a necessity often, as I try to pick targets already aggro'ed on someone else, as I'm trying to avoid aggro to keep up sneak attack damage.

Are you sure about this? I thought historically RR was xbow-only; it also helps bows a bit, I feel better about taking an arty splash on one of my AAs.

I would like clarification on this as well please.

Sorry, but I don't remember where I read this, just that it was someone who is generally reliable when it comes to testing these sorts of things.

[sephiroth1084]

As for skills, on the build that I have I didn't go for Overwhelming Critical, so I didn't start with as much Str. Think I started Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 8.

That gets you 6 skill points a level for your artificer and monk levels, and 8 for your ranger levels until you get a +2 Int tome down at level 7, which pushes you up to 7 and 9.

Artificer levels - Spot, Search, Disable, Open Lock, UMD, Concentration
Ranger levels - Spot, Search, Disable x2, UMD x2, Concentration, whatever you're behind on
Monk levels - Spot, UMD x2, Concentration, Disable, Search

I used the extra point on ranger levels to keep Search and Disable climbing. It's worth planning the skills out beforehand, and remember that you can afford to stop increasing Spot at around 18-20 ranks, since you have a high Wis to go along with it. I find Search to be more important than Disable Device, since you are adding a d20 roll to your Disable, and can retry, whereas Search is a yes or no issue. As such, I made sure to get a full 23 ranks in UMD, Search, and Concentration, about 20 ranks in Spot, 4 in Open Lock, and whatever I had left in Disable Device (20+). Oh, and I stuck one rank into Tumble somewhere.

If you're going for OC,well, that changes things a bit. I haven't bothered trying to figure out the stats for that yet, or how the skills would work. I'd say a place to scrimp would be Dex, which you can drop to a starting 15 if you've got a +4 tome and don't want to bother with Combat Archery (not a great move, I think, for if they ever fix it, but fine for now). Otherwise...you probably need to give up something. You don't need quite as much Con on an archer since you spend most of your time out of melee range.

[Therigar]

As for skills, on the build that I have I didn't go for Overwhelming Critical, so I didn't start with as much Str. Think I started Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 8.

That gets you 6 skill points a level for your artificer and monk levels, and 8 for your ranger levels until you get a +2 Int tome down at level 7, which pushes you up to 7 and 9.

Artificer levels - Spot, Search, Disable, Open Lock, UMD, Concentration
Ranger levels - Spot, Search, Disable x2, UMD x2, Concentration, whatever you're behind on
Monk levels - Spot, UMD x2, Concentration, Disable, Search

I used the extra point on ranger levels to keep Search and Disable climbing. It's worth planning the skills out beforehand, and remember that you can afford to stop increasing Spot at around 18-20 ranks, since you have a high Wis to go along with it. I find Search to be more important than Disable Device, since you are adding a d20 roll to your Disable, and can retry, whereas Search is a yes or no issue. As such, I made sure to get a full 23 ranks in UMD, Search, and Concentration, about 20 ranks in Spot, 4 in Open Lock, and whatever I had left in Disable Device (20+). Oh, and I stuck one rank into Tumble somewhere.

If you're going for OC,well, that changes things a bit. I haven't bothered trying to figure out the stats for that yet, or how the skills would work. I'd say a place to scrimp would be Dex, which you can drop to a starting 15 if you've got a +4 tome and don't want to bother with Combat Archery (not a great move, I think, for if they ever fix it, but fine for now). Otherwise...you probably need to give up something. You don't need quite as much Con on an archer since you spend most of your time out of melee range.

IMO Spot can be kept significantly lower than 18-20 ranks. With WIS skills giving a boost and presuming a level appropriate WIS item characters with 16 WIS are going to end life at or near 28 WIS w/o tomes. That is +9 Spot just from WIS skills. That means to hit 20 as a target skill number you need to invest 11 skill points while leveling. And, that means you put the last point into Spot at L8 (4@L1 and 1@L2-8).

Not sure why you'd do this. Some people feel it is important to notice traps first. That is important for new players in new player groups or soloing but becomes pretty much unnecessary when grouping with more experienced players. IMO even a 20 target number is too much most of the time.

Open Locks can usually be kept fairly low but it can be annoying when you can pick locks on doors but not chests. Some chest DCs are very high. Personally I value this more than the trapping ability. Reason there is simple -- most groups have someone else who wants to prove how good they are at getting traps. I say let them.

Still, if a player solos a lot of the time it is worth keeping full ranks in Search and Disable Device. I'd use the extra ranks saved from Spot on Open Locks.

I'd use the bonus skill points after L7's tome use on Jump.

The 12 CON is scary. I ran with less, but it is still scary.

[sephiroth1084]

IMO Spot can be kept significantly lower than 18-20 ranks. With WIS skills giving a boost and presuming a level appropriate WIS item characters with 16 WIS are going to end life at or near 28 WIS w/o tomes. That is +9 Spot just from WIS skills. That means to hit 20 as a target skill number you need to invest 11 skill points while leveling. And, that means you put the last point into Spot at L8 (4@L1 and 1@L2-8).

Not sure why you'd do this. Some people feel it is important to notice traps first. That is important for new players in new player groups or soloing but becomes pretty much unnecessary when grouping with more experienced players. IMO even a 20 target number is too much most of the time.

Well, as the OP stated, he'd prefer to have Spot, since he doesn't know the trap locations very well. Personally, I like having a highish Spot so I can detect traps in content I'm not familiar with, new content, content with randomized trap locations, when soloing, and so that I can detect sneaking enemies, some of whom have rather high stealth skills.

20 isn't an objective target value...I haven't done any research to figure out what the benchmark is for spotting every trap in the game on EE, but I imagine that if rogues are doing it with starting 8 Wis scores, a monk-based character with a significant focus on Wis should be able to get them without max ranks. If you could find some info that indicates that 10 or 11 ranks would be enough, I'd probably drop another few ranks to spend elsewhere.

Open Locks can usually be kept fairly low but it can be annoying when you can pick locks on doors but not chests. Some chest DCs are very high. Personally I value this more than the trapping ability. Reason there is simple -- most groups have someone else who wants to prove how good they are at getting traps. I say let them.

Last I played (September), I'd been able to open every chest I had attempted (including some EE chests) with 4 ranks, a decent Dex, and some good OL items--a +20 skill booster, Ventilated Bracers, and +5 tools. If you're concerned, craft up a +6 Dex skills Shroud item to swap in for those situations.

I don't know who you've been running with, but most groups I've ever run in don't have someone with trap skills, and it's rare for me to be in a group on my trapping archer (or my rogue) and have someone else present who can also handle traps. If that happens, great! It's unlikely, however, and being able to cover multiple tasks helps people swallow the bitter pill of allowing an archer into their parties.

I'd use the bonus skill points after L7's tome use on Jump.

Why? One of the good Jump clickies (Amrath belt) gives +30, GH is +4, and you're going to have at least a +6 Str modifier, not to mention that Ninja Spy is improving your Jump a little as well. Jump caps at 40.

The 12 CON is scary. I ran with less, but it is still scary.

Not especially. On my archer I was running some tough content with about 500 HP at level 25 if I recall correctly, and rarely died. I could have gotten some more HP in there, but I hadn't finished off his gear. The character has good saves, Improved Evasion, incorporeality, Dodge, some AC, some PRR (now that I think about it, I may have actually started with a 13 Con, but I'm not sure...I know that I had Earth III, and didn't have any +4 tomes...). Not to mention pretty solid healing amp, and hard-hitting Heal scrolls.

I even did a few LoB runs where I'd end up with the LoB's aggro inadvertently, and would be able to survive long enough for the tank to get aggro back usually.