Goodbye DDO

[anivaj]

I don't think he can do that. He said was getting 80%...



If 10 mobs are charging, even if he got off Crushing, Fear, and the Mass Hold, he didn't have time to Energy Drain each of the 10, so he isn't getting anywhere near 80% in your 10-mobs-charging scenario.

Exactly. With just fear and CD, I was getting maybe 40-50%, if I was lucky.

[Tolath]

Quitting because DDO is too hard? wow thats a new one.

DDO is by far one of the easiests mmos out there.

It has challenge to be had, only if you seek it out. If you don't like getting hit for high amounts and damage and requireing great skill to survive, why would you even play EE?

You do have 3-7 other difficulty choices depend on the quest you are running. Each of which is a ton easier.

I mean yea it is too bad that EH is as easy it is, leaving no middle group for some players.. But oh well, I mean the rewards barely differ, so its not like much is lost for dropping down to that difficulty.

And btw, the vast majority of those HP the tanks have, comes 75% from gear and destiny choice. Casters can also reach 1k+ HP without sacrifcing anything other then your destiny and a couple gear slots. Melee tanks sacrifice just about as much DPS if they do it.

Personally my caster has even less hp then yours, but he has displacement and constant mobility always which my tank cant reliably have, so it makes up the differnece in deffence just fine imo. Tend to die a lot less on him actually.

Also don't see any DC problem. Yea giants and their kin have high fort saves, so use will save spells. Im constantly telling casters this and there like, oh no that wont land either. I demand they cast a mass hold, and low an behold, even with middling DCs in the 40-50s, they land just fine on all appropriate targets. People are just too used to the dumb faceroll mass insta kill spells working 95%, which is brokenly easy for the top difficulty. They finally got it right this update. Casters can and still do dominate, you just have to adjust tactics slightly.

i dont see in any of the posts of the guy that is leaving saying that game is too hard.

if you say that dc 40-50 is working in property targets on epic elite there are 3 options.
first you have no idea about epic elite and dcs thats is hard to believe.
second you lie for your personal reasons.
third there something hidden in the saves that lower dcs can work better.a bug or maybe random saves when you first enter a dungeon.

for some reason i think that sometimes i can do fine cc and other times i cant catch a thing.i dont know really whats is going.also sometimes i see mobs that i tried to finger lots of times and save me 100% that someone with lower dc can finger them.

i am still testing things around.really dont know what is going on.

[dredre9987]

Exactly. With just fear and CD, I was getting maybe 40-50%, if I was lucky.

And what about the rest of your debuffs?

I said it once and I will say it again AS AN EE DC CASTER....If you are getting hit you are doing it wrong.

[anivaj]

And what about the rest of your debuffs?

I said it once and I will say it again AS AN EE DC CASTER....If you are getting hit you are doing it wrong.

I would love to run with you sometime, because if you are an arcane running in an EE GH quest AND contributing and never getting hit, I would give you a whole bag of cookies

[maddmatt70]

I don't think he can do that. He said was getting 80%...



If 10 mobs are charging, even if he got off Crushing, Fear, and the Mass Hold, he didn't have time to Energy Drain each of the 10, so he isn't getting anywhere near 80% in your 10-mobs-charging scenario.

Dude seriously ccing in these quest means a different playstyle - you set up cc fields. On my bard I just did cabel ee and I constantly cast discoball, and mind fog. then the mobs starting rushing toward the field and I cast crushing and hypno on them and I usually got 100% and not 80% actually. The biggest problem was maybe a spell caster would stand back or an archer and not run to the field and I would just rush to them and throw down an otto's irresistable. This was all done with my bard.

On the skells if you trick out your wizard for dispel magic and death to undeath/halt undead you can get them. Ran with wizard who did this in Gianthold Tor. I do not think he was tricked out like he could have been hence it was inefficent from a spell point standpoint, but definitely casters could build for that and use magister, etc. to land those spells.

[anivaj]

Dude seriously ccing in these quest means a different playstyle - you set up cc fields. On my bard I just did cabel ee and I constantly cast discoball, and mind fog. then the mobs starting rushing toward the field and I cast crushing and hypno on them and I usually got 100% and not 80% actually. The biggest problem was maybe a spell caster would stand back or an archer and not run to the field and I would just rush to them and throw down an otto's irresistable. This was all done with my bard.

On the skells if you trick out your wizard for dispel magic and death to undeath/halt undead you can get them. Ran with wizard who did this in Gianthold Tor. I do not think he was tricked out like he could have been hence it was inefficent from a spell point standpoint, but definitely casters could build for that and use magister, etc. to land those spells.

Most of Gianthold I can handle, but not with ease. EE Tor is my main issue. Why exactly would giants be immune to CC???

[Tolath]

I have played a supposedly gimped archetype (ranged) basically since when I joined the game. I have always tried to adapt to the content rather than forcing my way through.

I've already said SOME of the will/fort saves could be adjusted, and maybe it's not your case but I'm getting a strong feeling that people just want to be able to crush content on casters as they used to (like the guy who was saying casters are the D&D gods and no save spells are boring).

It's ok that in SOME quests DC casters aren't good. Is your enchantment DC worthless even on minos, trolls, ogres, gnolls, hobgoblin and the other stuff you come across in Madstone, Cabal, the walkups...? Because if it's just the giants it's ok. It's ONE quest...the concord casters can have a high will I guess, and rhakshasa too...not sure about jariliths.

The point is, if 55 (?) enchantment DC is useless all EE GH than yes, saves are too high. But if it's useless on giants and a few other mobs than it's ok, need to find another way of dealing with them (and there are a few, like said no save spells...).

The melee/ranged are having a good time now, I don't see why casters should always be the best everywhere (again, maybe it's not you but A LOT of people give me the impression they think this).

first i said that i liked the fact that wizards are squishy atm in epic elite as it was when game started.
but this is far away from pnp and this game uses dnd as a name.things are going more like other mmo games
like casters are wearing cloth so are squishy.i dont mind that fact not about who is squishy and who isnt.
i prefer a tank to be more tough than a wizard and i like that.but the problem atm is that all changes i see around
are making ddo more and more close to wow.if i want to play wow i can log and play it.

and as alot people saying giants are no the higher saves mobs atm around gianthold.there is an issue with almost all mobs and for my point of view giants have lower saves than others.

[anivaj]

first i said that i liked the fact that wizards are squishy atm in epic elite as it was when game started.
but this is far away from pnp and this game uses dnd as a name.things are going more like other mmo games
like casters are wearing cloth so are squishy.i dont mind that fact not about who is squishy and who isnt.
i prefer a tank to be more tough than a wizard and i like that.but the problem atm is that all changes i see around
are making ddo more and more close to wow.if i want to play wow i can log and play it.

and as alot people saying giants are no the higher saves mobs atm around gianthold.there is an issue with almost all mobs and for my point of view giants have lower saves than others.

I also have no issue with caster being squishy IF their CC actually landed....

[anivaj]

You know what? Based off the replies in this thread, you can definitely tell who plays EE DC casters and who plays primarily DPS casters and melee. If you don't primarily run a DC caster, then why would you even post in regards to EE DC casting???

[Tolath]

Most of Gianthold I can handle, but not with ease. EE Tor is my main issue. Why exactly would giants be immune to CC???

because when gianthold tor realeased.cap was lvl 14 and that time the best spells around was finger,web,hold,hypno
so they made giants immune to all that spells as a very hard encounter.all was fine that time no issues at all as the problem was only giants and no other mobs.

some years later some finger fans was against no instant kill in tor so they removed the immunity to death effects but the same time they keep all others.so we have this amazing design the same mob that gets energy drain and figher are immune to negative dmg that finger can do with the save.

for me its just very bad work by devs in that quest.they could leave it as was when released or remove all immunities completely.

[anivaj]

because when gianthold tor realeased.cap was lvl 14 and that time the best spells around was finger,web,hold,hypno
so they made giants immune to all that spells as a very hard encounter.all was fine that time no issues at all as the problem was only giants and no other mobs.

some years later some finger fans was against no instant kill in tor so they removed the immunity to death effects but the same time they keep all others.so we have this amazing design the same mob that gets energy drain and figher are immune to negative dmg that finger can do with the save.

for me its just very bad work by devs in that quest.they could leave it as was when released or remove all immunities completely.

Again, can someone explain to me why giants are immune to CC in Tor?

Since Tor is the quest i have run the most on EE, this might be why I am misinterpreting the saves needed. I only ran the flaggers on EH and havent really touched the walkups. All giants in Tor are unable to be CCed by design? If so, then this is why I never see anything land in there, and if so, this is a stupid mechanic...

[Dirac]

I'm quitting too. As a melee you can't get into a tempest spine elite group without being a paladin or a fighter. The AC on the blackguards are insane! Why should I be pigeonholed into a specific build? And don't tell me I can play my ranger in every other quest in the game, because all the best loot is in Tempest elite.

Anyway, I'm from March of 2006. Hope I'm not too late.

[maddmatt70]

Most of Gianthold I can handle, but not with ease. EE Tor is my main issue. Why exactly would giants be immune to CC???

Stuff happens, but I have seen a caster energy drain and finger of death every single giant in there. Change your tactic to more instakill..

[Tolath]

Again, can someone explain to me why giants are immune to CC in Tor?

Since Tor is the quest i have run the most on EE, this might be why I am misinterpreting the saves needed. I only ran the flaggers on EH and havent really touched the walkups. All giants in Tor are unable to be CCed by design? If so, then this is why I never see anything land in there, and if so, this is a stupid mechanic...

they have a blessing of something that make them immune to that effects.dance is working so you could use otos sphere of dance to cc them.this has a long casting and no auto hit or double dmg like hold.also they weak save was reflex so they made them immune to web as well.so that time you could use fts for casting types and otos sphere on meele types.

[anivaj]

they have a blessing of something that make them immune to that effects.dance is working so you could use otos sphere of dance to cc them.this has a long casting and no auto hit or double dmg like hold.also they weak save was reflex so they made them immune to web as well.so that time you could use fts for casting types and otos sphere on meele types.

Well all this time playing and I never knew they had some cheesy mechanic in Tor. Let me check the walkups and flaggers. Maybe I have just been getting upset by a bad mechanic in one quest. I will investigate and return with some news...

[LordMond63]

Or don't be a one trick pony? I'd say that's a problem there

If you sacrifice that much in order to excel at one thing, shouldn't you actually excel at that one thing?

And we're talking about a player who has FIFTEEN Past Lives. My Wizzie is a first lifer, also specced to be a CC specialist. If someone with that many past lives can't pull it off consistently in EE content, then what chance do I have? It sure seems to me that Turbine has, intentionally or not, managed to exclude 99% of their player base from what they obviously consider their crowning content achievement: EE. Fail on a massive scale.

[Merrelll]

I would love to run with you sometime, because if you are an arcane running in an EE GH quest AND contributing and never getting hit, I would give you a whole bag of cookies

For someone who is suppose to be leaving, you sure are trolling.

[LordMond63]

Also don't see any DC problem. Yea giants and their kin have high fort saves, so use will save spells. Im constantly telling casters this and there like, oh no that wont land either. I demand they cast a mass hold, and low an behold, even with middling DCs in the 40-50s, they land just fine on all appropriate targets. People are just too used to the dumb faceroll mass insta kill spells working 95%, which is brokenly easy for the top difficulty. They finally got it right this update. Casters can and still do dominate, you just have to adjust tactics slightly.

Your definition of "middling" and mine are somewhat different.

I have no problem with the changes they made to insta-kill spells. It was getting to the point that no one played anything other than Necro-based Wizzies because it is comparatively easy for them to achieve (what I'd consider) high DCs for FoD, Wail, CoD and the like. Walk up to the enemy, spam one or another of those, and you're on your're done.

So they took that away....and, in the process, managed to make the mobs almost impossible to CC (due to insanely high DCs) or truly impossible to CC (via immunities), rendering in the process an entire segment of casters (CC specialists) liabilities in EE content because we sacrifice much of our damage output in order to attain what should be reasonable DCs (50ish, not 60ish) for our spells.

A game which caters only to 5% (or less) of their player base is not one with much of a future.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Again, can someone explain to me why giants are immune to CC in Tor?

Since Tor is the quest i have run the most on EE, this might be why I am misinterpreting the saves needed. I only ran the flaggers on EH and havent really touched the walkups. All giants in Tor are unable to be CCed by design? If so, then this is why I never see anything land in there, and if so, this is a stupid mechanic...

I think I remember a time when the only CC that worked in Tor was Flesh to Stone.

[Nitesco]

You can CC the giants in EE Tor, you just need the optimal race/class combination, every school related feat, every casting stat/school related ED unlocked and twisted in, past life/lives, best-in-slot gear and debuffs.

Or you could just be a first lifer with budget gear in Shiradi.