Devs, please address the absurdity that are heroic/epic quest repeat penalties...

[PNellesen]

/signed!

[rdasca]

/not signed!

I dont want to see any changes that promote exp farming via quest repetition.

I think exp should ONLY be given for completion once per difficulty level.

i.e. Zero exp for completing a quest if youve already done it on that difficulty.

This will reduce the boredom of the repetition grind for exp, and promote diversity of quests run.


This will make the game more fun and increase player interaction.

Of course, to implement properly, a full review of quest exp would be needed to ensure sufficient exp to reach cap and EDs in the game.

This to me is a better way forward and promotes a truer reflection of what gaining "experience" ought to be about.

So F2P players are screwed? Or P2P players that do not yet own all the packs?
No thank you.

As for the OP, /signed a 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000 times!
It has been asked for many, many times, please make it happen Turbine.

[eden2760]

/signed

I undeleted a character from about a year before bravery bonuses existed. That was when we all used to run Nx3, H, E or some variation thereof.

I had a LOT of my quests that I would farm differently now ruined for xp as a result.


A mechanic like the decay for ransack timer would maybe be a viable alternative. Quite a few players move beyond content in the time it would take to revist the quest anyway, and this would allow the quest to be "fresh" for when epic content is reached. But I am a bit biased as I hate having to choose between Hard farm of Von3 and Epic Hard farm of Von 3. :d

[Gkar]

I'll add my voice to "keep seperate completion counters for Heroic/Epic" or "reset all completion counters when you hit L20"

[eden2760]

/not signed!

I dont want to see any changes that promote exp farming via quest repetition.

I think exp should ONLY be given for completion once per difficulty level.

i.e. Zero exp for completing a quest if youve already done it on that difficulty.

This will reduce the boredom of the repetition grind for exp, and promote diversity of quests run.


This will make the game more fun and increase player interaction.

Of course, to implement properly, a full review of quest exp would be needed to ensure sufficient exp to reach cap and EDs in the game.

This to me is a better way forward and promotes a truer reflection of what gaining "experience" ought to be about.

This is based on your own style of play and not repeating (and it sounds like you are the type of person that enjoys the journey, RP, etc. Nothing wrong with that).

But to some people an efficient grind is fun. Repeating to see if you can run a quest faster, better, in a different way is fun. Options should be open to accomodate more than one style of play.

[Hawkwier]

So F2P players are screwed? Or P2P players that do not yet own all the packs?
No thank you.

As for the OP, /signed a 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000 times!
It has been asked for many, many times, please make it happen Turbine.

As an F2P player who doesn't own all the packs myself, I do think there is an economic choice to be made.

Ive never quite gotten the concept of this game as a handout.

Whilst not necessarily screwed, as you put it, why should someone like me enjoy the same fundamental benefits as someone who supports the game every month with thier hard-earned cash?

I submit that the F2P principal is broken in any case. Do you know of anyone who has capped on F2P quests only.

And EDs require payment in any case to progress via the expansion, don't they?

[bigolbear]

well now mrmechman...

this is the second thread i find my self in complete agreement with you today.

/signed.

Oh and for what its worht il say it again!

The solution to repeat penalties and xp grinding arguments is to move repetition penalties to a ransack mechanic.

ie first time this week you have played X quest - bonus xp (based on dificulty)
seond time - regualr xp.
third time - penalty.
foruth - big penalty.
five - biger penalty.
six - 90% penalty.
seven - no xp.

It would prevent people from grinding the living hell out of the same quest (desired by most including the devs i think), remove all these issues and allow us to play what we want when we want without having to wory too much.

[Hawkwier]

This is based on your own style of play and not repeating (and it sounds like you are the type of person that enjoys the journey, RP, etc. Nothing wrong with that).

But to some people an efficient grind is fun. Repeating to see if you can run a quest faster, better, in a different way is fun. Options should be open to accomodate more than one style of play.

God knows its not down to my playstyle. I made the mistake of farming the farmhouse way too early!

Signing this would be the easy option for me. I would reap benefit.

I take the point that some folks like to refine by repetition.

Still others will repeat to farm items.

Thats all cool.

But why should we earn experience for it?

[eden2760]

God knows its not down to my playstyle. I made the mistake of farming the farmhouse way too early!

Signing this would be the easy option for me. I would reap benefit.

I take the point that some folks like to refine by repetition.

Still others will repeat to farm items.

Thats all cool.

But why should we earn experience for it?

I'm not talking about absolutely no xp penalty. I don't know if this was the OP's intent or not either. I"m more speaking about reducing the penalty after a few days like ransack resets.

It would be absurd in my opinion to think of doing away with the xp penalty entirely. Otherwise I would farm nothing but Shadow Crypt, Jungle, and Wiz king from like lvl 6 to lvl 16 .

I understand the mechanic. It's useful. My suggestion was to just tweak it a little bit, and certainly not go the other way where you only get xp once per difficulty. That is imposing your philosophy of play on others who don't share it.

[arminius]

I'll add my voice to "keep seperate completion counters for Heroic/Epic" or "reset all completion counters when you hit L20"

Yes. I don't like the decay idea, because I think it would create a meta-gaming whirlpool that will suck in the universe.

[rdasca]

As an F2P player who doesn't own all the packs myself, I do think there is an economic choice to be made.

Ive never quite gotten the concept of this game as a handout.

Whilst not necessarily screwed, as you put it, why should someone like me enjoy the same fundamental benefits as someone who supports the game every month with thier hard-earned cash?

I submit that the F2P principal is broken in any case. Do you know of anyone who has capped on F2P quests only.

And EDs require payment in any case to progress via the expansion, don't they?

No I do not personally know of anyone who capped with only F2P quest; however, I do know of people who because of varying reasons have not spent any money on DDO and have capped toons. By doing lots of favor farming and repeating quest to get XP to level up.

One person I know got to level 20 (before MotU) by favor farming until they had the points to get vale and capped by running those quest and an occasional guess pass to areas they did not own.

As to your question "why should someone like me enjoy the same fundamental benefits as someone who supports the game every month with their hard-earned cash?" easy answer, because Turbine advertises DDO as a Free to Play Game.

It is up to the individual if they wish to support it or not, I choose to do so, as a ViP subscriber for three plus years, I have no problem with part of my money supporting pure F2P players, it gets more people into the game, more people to run with and the vast majority will buy something at some point.

But back to the OP, there are plenty of people in this game that only own so many packs, heck I know of one that has only bought the MotU expansion pack, so he only has those packs included in that deal, but has EDs, so is he to be denied getting to level 25? Level 28? Because I can tell you without redoing quest over and over again there is no way he will ever cap.

[Mercureal]

Signed. I doubt this mattters very much, but still endorsed. If the leveling mechanic is going to be built around repeating quests, they should reduce or remove the obstacle that the repetition penalty presents to fun, effective and efficient leveling.

[Hawkwier]

Not imposing anything Eden.

Simply voicing my considered opinion, as we all are.

Which is cool.

One could take the view that the habit of grinding imposes a playstyle on other players who consequently find reducd opportunity for PUGs.

Grinding might be limiting everyones capacity to experience (scuse pun!) the game in full.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I *absolutely* understand why the repeat penalty is there and I agree with that reason. If repeat penalties weren't there, then there would be an big temptation to just run one quest into the ground for all of your XP and that just leads to burnout.

Unfortunately, the implementation that worked well when the level cap was 20 just doesn't work well with Epic Destinies.

As long as you didn't touch the quest more than twice before hitting the Epic XP cap, the repeat penalty doesn't hit you. That means you still can end up running the exact same quest over and over and over and over and over again to farm out your Epic Destinies. It's a tiresome grind that is tedious without being challenging.

...and if you did ransack the XP from a quest while you were doing your Heroic levels a year ago, then you have the XP repetition penalty all over again even though you haven't stepped into the quest in the last 12 months.

Instead of just counting the number of times you have run a quest ever (and stopping the repeat penalty after you hit the level cap), how about just putting XP on a ransack timer in the same way that you do for chests? That fixes both problems. You don't have the same temptation to farm all of your destinies with one single quest once you hit the level cap and you don't get penalized for repeating something that you haven't stepped into recently.

[Hawkwier]

No I do not personally know of anyone who capped with only F2P quest; however, I do know of people who because of varying reasons have not spent any money on DDO and have capped toons. By doing lots of favor farming and repeating quest to get XP to level up.

One person I know got to level 20 (before MotU) by favor farming until they had the points to get vale and capped by running those quest and an occasional guess pass to areas they did not own.

As to your question "why should someone like me enjoy the same fundamental benefits as someone who supports the game every month with their hard-earned cash?" easy answer, because Turbine advertises DDO as a Free to Play Game.

It is up to the individual if they wish to support it or not, I choose to do so, as a ViP subscriber for three plus years, I have no problem with part of my money supporting pure F2P players, it gets more people into the game, more people to run with and the vast majority will buy something at some point.

But back to the OP, there are plenty of people in this game that only own so many packs, heck I know of one that has only bought the MotU expansion pack, so he only has those packs included in that deal, but has EDs, so is he to be denied getting to level 25? Level 28? Because I can tell you without redoing quest over and over again there is no way he will ever cap.

Free to play and free to complete are two different beasties Radsca. Your mate buying MOTU is proof of that.

As to your final comment. I agree. My first post on the matter aknowledges that to implement would need an exp review.

I also don't think the OP was aimed at the TP grind. In which exp was never a prime consideration.

[Revolted]

I think exp should ONLY be given for completion once per difficulty level.

i.e. Zero exp for completing a quest if youve already done it on that difficulty.

You sir, must be completely out of your mind!
Did you ever made a TR?? Have you any toon with 3 or more lives? It is possible not to grind xp, but penalizing people that wants to proceed to the boring experience that is grinding, is just completely wrong.

As to the question of this thread /signed. If epic progression is different than heroic, to do a quest on epic that was only done on heroic before, shouldn't be xp penalized. It's stupid and stinks!

[HungarianRhapsody]

God knows its not down to my playstyle. I made the mistake of farming the farmhouse way too early!

Signing this would be the easy option for me. I would reap benefit.

I take the point that some folks like to refine by repetition.

Still others will repeat to farm items.

Thats all cool.

But why should we earn experience for it?

If you run a quest 10 times before hitting the level cap, you will get close to 0 ED XP for it after hitting the level cap. If you run a quest 40 times after hitting the level cap, but didn't touch it before hitting the level cap, then you'll get your full ED XP every time you run it. It doesn't make any sense for one of those scenarios to be different than the other.

There is plenty of Epic XP available to hit the level cap. It's the Epic Destiny XP that really grinds folks down.

[patang01]

God knows its not down to my playstyle. I made the mistake of farming the farmhouse way too early!

Signing this would be the easy option for me. I would reap benefit.

I take the point that some folks like to refine by repetition.

Still others will repeat to farm items.

Thats all cool.

But why should we earn experience for it?

Because there's not enough XP to unlock all the features in the game otherwise.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I think exp should ONLY be given for completion once per difficulty level.

If Turbine had structured XP requirements for levels with that condition in mind, then your suggestion would be entirely reasonable. Since they structured XP requirements based on idea
that players would repeat the content (and repeat it quite a bit in many cases), that idea is just not feasible.

[Hawkwier]

Revolted. Im a Scot. We're all a wee bit mental!

I agree TRs shouldnt be penalised. Reset the repeat timer as part of the TR.

And consider TR as part of the exp review.

Crazy I know but...