Third Animal Form for Druids

[Kilbar]

Okay, I don't actually know Druids very well, so if this is stupid beyond words, please go easy on me. I'm mainly posting this because I'd like to see the forms themselves incorporated into the game, not necessarily my cobbled-together stats.

Fen Cat
May be chosen at level 2 or 5. The addition of this third form means the player will have to choose two forms and shun the third entirely.
Your base attack speed is 20% (not a typo) faster.
+10 Competence Bonus to Hide
Inherent Acid Resistance 5
+1d6 to Sneak Attack Damage
+20% Enhancement Bonus to Movement Speed
Racial +2 to Dexterity
Your natural attacks do 1d6 slashing and piercing damage with a 19-20 crit range for double damage
Available spells are: Takedown, Maul, Roar, Shred, Howl of Terror

Razor Cat
May be chosen at level 8 or 11 with the same restrictions as above.
You attack 25% faster
You move 25% faster
You have Spike Guard in effect in this form. Successful attacks upon you inflict 2d4 piercing damage (Reflex save for half damage) to attackers
Inherent Cold Resistance 5
Racial +4 to Dexterity
Your natural attacks inflict 1d10 slashing and piercing damage.
Available spells are: I'll be honest, this is where I lose steam. Other than maybe making Splinterbolt a Razor Cat spell, I got nothing.

So... How bad is it?

[Rian]

Right from DDOWiki

Wolf
Your base attack speed is 30% faster, you gain a +3 bonus to attack while flanking, +1d6 sneak attack damage, and a +10% enhancement bonus to movement speed.
Your natural attacks do 1d6 damage, do both piercing and slashing damage, and critically hit for double damage on a roll of 19-20.
Form specific spells: Takedown, Baiting Bite, Harrowing Pack, Howl of Terror

Winter Wolf
You attack 30% faster, you gain a +5 bonus to attack while flanking, +2d6 sneak attack damage, and a 15% enhancement bonus to movement speed.
Your natural attacks do 1d10 damage, do both piercing and slashing damage, and critically hit for triple damage on a roll of 19 or 20.
Form specific spells: Takedown, Baiting Bite, Harrowing Pack, Cold Breath, Frostbite, Jaws Of Winter, Howl of Terror, Snowslide

So... um... yeah...

Although more animal forms, and elemental forms for that matter, would be nice. Spells too.

[Kilbar]

Yes, I know about wolves and their bonuses. The Cats are a compromise between the speed of the wolves and the power of the bears with a few unique tricks of their own. Due to the natural speed of cats, they favor the wolf side of the discussion, but they still have plenty of power, I feel.

[Memnir]

I think Druids should have more form options, even if they are largely cosmetic.

Frankly, I think a Rat form would be a good option, even though I'm not going to try to fabricate bonuses (and yes, I know Rats are Vermin, and technically shouldn't be able to be a Wildshape option till 11th level per PnP rules... but hey - houserule).

I also think that Air and Earth elementals should be added. Maybe add a mephit form to get some elemental-type variability.


Cosmetic kits should also be created for Druids in their forms, so they don't look so anonymous/homogenous whilst fuzzy.



But yes... I think that more options for Wildshape would only add to Druids, and in no way be a bad thing.

[Kilbar]

The stats I came up with are just an idea... Nothing more. What I really want the devs to look at is the idea of adding more shape options, especially felinoid ones. I like cats!

[fco-karatekid]

How about Dire Hipster.

Here's the Helf and Human versions with a couple female Helves

[droid327]

At first I thought Cat was going to be a stealth-oriented shape...but then it just ended up being the same as Wolf, substantially.

I wouldnt be opposed to a Stealth-oriented form option, though. Something with, naturally, big bonuses to Hide/Move Silently, maybe something like HiPS that gives a straight flat bonus to your hiding ability, sneak damage of course, an Assassinate-style special attack, etc. etc. And I'd say higher crit threat range rather than increased damage (bear) or attack speed (wolf). Form spells that focus more on DOTs and roots/slows rather than direct damage.

The problem with that, of course, is it does no good to be a cat in Stealth, if your wolf companion is still clomping around giving away your position

[Kilbar]

A more stealth-oriented set of bonuses does sound good, and to prevent the wolf pet from spoiling things, open up your pet options as well like the Summon spells have been. If your Druid favors the Bear Wild Shape line, shouldn't that be reflected in his companion as well?

[Kelendren]

A more stealth-oriented set of bonuses does sound good, and to prevent the wolf pet from spoiling things, open up your pet options as well like the Summon spells have been. If your Druid favors the Bear Wild Shape line, shouldn't that be reflected in his companion as well?

OK, first off, I like the idea of having more wild/elemental shapes, and maybe another PrE, maybe one that focuses on the pet (???), or split Wolf and Bear into two different PrE's, but I do think that regardless the druid pet should reflect the master's chosen shape. Like at level 6, you can take a class feat that changes your pet's shape to a bear/cat/ice mephit/whatever.

Also, I agree that a "Cat" wildshape should focus more on a stealth standpoint than an "attack as fast as you can" or a "hit as hard as possible" archetype. Maybe increase movement and attack speed a little, but not as much as a wolf; focus more on stealth capabilities (Hide in Plain Sight, sneak attack damage increases, hide/move silently levels, etc.)


...

Is Hide In Plain Sight even a FEAT in DDO???

[Kilbar]

I tried to give my Fen Cat form stealth abilities with the +10 to Hide Competence bonus. It's basically an always-on (while in Fen Cat form, at least) Camouflage spell from the Ranger repertoire. Fen Cats are normally quite stealthy anyway, so I felt it fit. Razor Cats don't do stealth, thus that form has different bonuses.

[Kelendren]

I tried to give my Fen Cat form stealth abilities with the +10 to Hide Competence bonus. It's basically an always-on (while in Fen Cat form, at least) Camouflage spell from the Ranger repertoire. Fen Cats are normally quite stealthy anyway, so I felt it fit. Razor Cats don't do stealth, thus that form has different bonuses.

Well, if you're going to do it that way, they should be two different form trees. Winter Wolf continues on Wolf, and Dire Bear continues on Bear. The only difference is that Dire Bear/Winter Wolf is stronger than Bear/Wolf. Based on the two forms out there now, Razor Cat should continue on Fen Cat, being even better with stealth, maybe even equivilent to a rogue without the DD checks

[Kilbar]

Well, if you're going to do it that way, they should be two different form trees. Winter Wolf continues on Wolf, and Dire Bear continues on Bear. The only difference is that Dire Bear/Winter Wolf is stronger than Bear/Wolf. Based on the two forms out there now, Razor Cat should continue on Fen Cat, being even better with stealth, maybe even equivilent to a rogue without the DD checks

I don't believe the devs should slavishly adhere to the pattern currently in place where monstrous wolves/bears are just wolves/bears on steroids. Cats in particular have a reputation for being unique and different, so I believe making the monstrous form merely a better stalker would be a mistake. In my write-up above, the Fen Cat is a stealthy killer while the Razor Cat is a swift, brutal killer with a special defensive trait in the form of barbed spines mixed in with its fur forming its Spike Guard defense. Thematically, it's the difference between a cougar and a Siberian tiger. While the tiger does use stealth, it's far more reliant upon punishing brutal strength and power than the smaller cougar is. The cougar is all blinding speed and ambushes.

I could even see changing the stat bonus for the Razor Cat from Dex to Str.

[HatsuharuZ]

I'd like to see an animal form that grants evasion~

[Aashrym]

I would be inclined to add a reptilian form that can apply balance, jump, hide, swim, and move silent bonuses. It seems more suited to the utility idea if we already have wolf meant to be offensive and bear meant to be defensive.

I would also like to see a plant form in there too. I could see a lot of potential with fantasy plant monster style abilities.

Air and Earth elemental forms should have been a given if Fire and Water were planned.

Signed on more forms.

[Rian]

Just musing over the idea of a stalking type and this is what I thought of.

Fen Cat Form
+2 Dex
Movement while sneaking is increased by 15%
+1d6 sneak damage
+1/2 natural bonus hide and move silent bonus per druid level (so +10 at 20)
+1% natural bonus to movement speed per 4 Druid levels (so +5% STACKING at 20)
+2% natural bonus to double strike while sneak attacking.
Base damage 1d6 increasing in base damage by +1[W] for being nature's warrior (so 2[1d6])

Spells Available:
lvl 1 - Take down
lvl 2 - Stalk: You stalk your prey and go without notice, you generate 50% less hate.
lvl 3 - Baiting bite
lvl 4 - Ambush: May only be used while sneaking. You pounce upon your enemy from a short distance away causing your target to make a successful balance check (DC 13 + wis mod) or be knocked prone. Nearby enemies panic and receive -2 attack and saves vs. fear for a short time.

Great Panther Form

+4 Dex
Movement while sneaking is increased by 30%
+2d6 sneak attack damage
+1 natural bonus to hide and move silent bonus per druid level (+20 at 20)
+2% natural bonus to movement speed per 4 druid levels (+10% STACKING at 20)
+4% natural bonus to double strike while sneaking.
Base damage 2[1d6] increasing by 1.5[W] for being Nature's warrior.

Spells Available:
lvl 1 - Take down
lvl 2 - Stalk: You stalk your prey and go without notice, you generate 50% less hate.
lvl 3 - Baiting bite
lvl 4 - Ambush: May only be used while sneaking. You pounce upon your enemy from a short distance away causing your target to make a successful balance check (DC 13 + wis mod) or be knocked prone. Nearby enemies panic and receive -2 attack and saves vs. fear for a short time.
lvl 5 - Limb Ripper: You may select one of the following two effects, each deals +3[W] DC 14 + wis mod?
Leg ripper - Your target suffers -4 reflex saves, crippled by 75%, and is bleeding 2d4/round
Arm ripper - your target suffers -4 attack, damage, and is bleeding 2d4/round
lvl 6 - Panther's Agility: Caster receives +2 natural bonus to dex, -2 con (or str?) and may use dex as either attack or damage modifier
lvl 7 - Great Ambush: May only be used while sneaking. You pounce upon your unwitting enemies from a short distance away, causing your targets to make a successful balance check (DC 15+wis mod) or be knocked prone. Nearby panic and receive -3 attack and -4 saves vs fear.
lvl 8 - Thrill of the Hunt: When attacking in combat you have a 5% chance to receive a +3% dodge chance and +5% stacking attack speed
lvl 9 - Going for the Kill: May only be used while sneaking AND (flanking or enemy is prone). You go in for the kill on an unwitting enemy and attempt to end their life. Target must make a DC 10 +1/2 char lvl (or full char lvl?) + wis (or dex?) mod vs their reflex (or fortitude?)


Probably overpowering, but they can't ALL be bad ideas.

[Kilbar]

I kinda like it. It's different from mine, but I'm not so stuck on myself that I can't see value in other people's ideas. Does the Great Panther actually look monstrous, though? Maybe give it saber teeth like a Smilodon or a Scimitar Cat and instead of a Fen Cat's solid black coloration the whitish-tan and black of a snow leopard.

[Silken-Akira]

Like the idea but would actually opt for the rat form then (even though I adore cats) because it would be great that the third form would be darker form. But still one thatwould follow the rogueish tree more.

[Kilbar]

Like the idea but would actually opt for the rat form then (even though I adore cats) because it would be great that the third form would be darker form. But still one thatwould follow the rogueish tree more.

Fen Cats are solid black, how much darker can you get? Besides, if you recall, in medieval Europe the Black Plague prospered because many believed cats were servants of Satan who spread it and killed them en masse as a result. The resulting population boom among rats and the plague-ridden fleas they carried decimated the continent. So historically, cats are very dark thematically.

[Silken-Akira]

Fen Cats are solid black, how much darker can you get? Besides, if you recall, in medieval Europe the Black Plague prospered because many believed cats were servants of Satan who spread it and killed them en masse as a result. The resulting population boom among rats and the plague-ridden fleas they carried decimated the continent. So historically, cats are very dark thematically.

hehe If I know that this would get such an interisting reply I feel I such comment your things more.
if it ever comes through I will name my cat Greebo (from discworld novels)

[Kilbar]

hehe If I know that this would get such an interisting reply I feel I such comment your things more.
if it ever comes through I will name my cat Greebo (from discworld novels)

I was thinking Pyewacket from Bell, Book and Candle and, of course, the familiar spirit alleged by a witch in 1644.