Multiclass 101: Design, Evolution, Progress

[01000010]

This has been reposted due to excessive trolling.

If you choose to play the game in a non creative way feel free, stay off this thread, i dont need your input and neither do any of the people that are interested in how to create a build from scratch that optimally does exactly what you wanted it to but isnt simplistic or standard.


ATTN: Whenever i update the progress of the build new info will be added to the bottom of the original post so that new readers get it all at once without haveing to read thread after. (Excessive trolling) I will alert when OP is added to by new reply.


Pt One: Design (the idea)

If everything works as anticipated this will be a strong and fun character, if not i will alter it as testing reveals how the synergies of the build multiply.

A spoiler to peak interest, final build plan is a very high dps 9wolf/2monk/9artie that can instakill on ee with intelligence is primary stat, sounds insane, but read on.

First off the basics, what kind of character am i going for:

I want a very high dps melee in wolf form, the reason i like wolf form is the wolf attack is very fast, based on doublestike and 30% higher attack animations, the way it multiplies it ends up about as fast as twf, but it FEELS like some mix between 2wf and 2hf, which i like. To get a maxed out multistrike chance for a wolf build requires a lot of feats(natural fighting and possibly shield mastery/imp shield mastery).

What perks do i want?

Strong self buffs, strong self healing(requires feats) and heal amp if possible, EE survivability (many factors, saves, evasion, high health, immunities, prr(and other defenses)) dont need all these to survive on ee but each helps. I want to be able to instakill stuff on ee... What do i need based on all that? Lots of feats...


Feats id like breakdown:

DPS (10 feats): pwr attck, imp crit bludge, natural fighting(x3), shield mastery & imp shield mastery(more dblstrike if im using 1h), overwheming crit(prereqs cleave and gr cleave).

Survival (4): Toughness, emp heal, maximize, empower


Race: Well, i need a lotta feats, and want self healing and dps, guess im going human(heal amp and human damage boost which stacks with any kind of haste boost for crazy burst dps). 1 xtra feat slot.


Classes: Must take 9 druid for the animal doublestike feats, so 11 lvls to play with.

I need more feats still, so gotta consider the classes that give extra feats, Fighter, monk, wizard, artie. For this build 2 monk is a no brainer, gives a couple feats, evasion and some extra options EDwise with stances, so 9 lvls left. Fighter would give me the most feats, but otherwise not add much to the build, if i wanted to go kensai id have to waste 1 feat and use another for only minor gain dpswise. Id probably get more dps from artie or wiz with buffs or dots, if i could get 12 wiz itd be cool to go wraith form for defense, but the synergy isnt there with a druids healing dots.

So looking at artie, what does it give me? 2 more feats, same as wiz, some extra damage buffs that dont always stack with wolf buffs but are situationally nice, armor of speed, some dots, pretty nice, some of the repeaters in game would be pretty sweet in wolf form too.

4 more feat slots from classes.

So with the 9 lvl/3 feat slots that 14 feats for the build, looking pretty close to what i wanted, dps, buffs, some defense(evasion, shield feats). But instakill is still a no go, looking at eds shadowdancer is most promising, but i would need maxed int...


Here i have an epiphany and make some hard choices.

Stats:
str: 11
dex: min
con: whatevers left
wis: min
int: max
chr: min

Huh? thats not very high dps? 11 str... Thats exactly how many people will react to my stats if they check myddo, not that theyd bother because 9/2/9 build? this guy is a moron... The trick in the build is the artie lvls, insightful damage is a personal buff that can be cast on any 1h weapon or repeater to make int your damage modifying stat, 11 str is for power attck prereq afer adding a +2 tome. Max int also allows me to use any ability in an epic destiny that uses int for dc to its max potential, and there are quite a few of these that are pretty strong.

Overwhelming crit isnt gonna happen if i want max int, so i grudgingly drop it, i like the build enough that i think it will be stronger all around than another version with maxed str/oc, so that -3 feats for build, so 3 feats to play with now. Since int is maxed and i have evasion from monk levels ill add insightful reflexes to my feat list, pretty massive survivability increase in some areas. So 2 more feats to play with, since its a new build im gonna leave these open, itll allow future version to be another race, start high enough con for epic toughness, go with higher dex for defensive feats or precision, whatever.

If i didnt like the synergies present so much from class/race/buffs/eds id consider altering the build a bit due to the extra feats, but this build is about exactly what i was going for.


Perks: Every build has some unintended perks, for this build its skills and skillpoints, and decent ranged ability althought they didnt play a part in my decisions for the build they are exremely nice.

1. All rog skills maxed (and max int for mods)
2. Tons of skillpoints every level due to max int and human
3. Great repeater damage(can take artie pre, max int and insightful damage, runearms)
4. Very high umd despite low charisma(plenty of skillpoints and artie enhancements)
5. Bluff, one of my favorite skills for soloing.
6. Decent secondary healer with aoe heals, including artie potion bombs, repairs and dot heals maxed emp etc.

And last, shadowdancer instakills based on int are about as close to no fail as possible, im familiar with these and they are very strong on ee and a lot of fun. The charm one is even better than bluff for soloing on a non caster.

Thats about it, ill start him as soon as the servers come back up. Wish me luck getting in groups, good thing i can solo most of the game now due to forced practice, lol.


Part 2: Evolution

Alright, so insightful damage doesnt work in wolf form, half expected that, dont see any reason why it shouldnt, but thats part of the design process, roll with the punches.

So looking at build, what can be altered to achieve the goals i had without damage from int?

Obviously have to go strenght based, but i still need max int for instakills from shadow ed and/or some other crazy int based ed abilities.

So my dps is gonna drop slightly probably, maybe go a bit more defensive.

Wizard still has great synergy with int, still would get 2 feats from it, some nice defensive buffs and couple dots wouldnt be too bad, id lose rog skills, but that wasnt a priority for the build anyhow.

What i lost, some stat points, gonna be tighter since i want to raise str a bit now for more damage, gonna cost me some con. On the bright side animal growth will increase my dps now(wouldnt have with int as dmg modifier), tensors will also be a nice dps boost from strength. Lost repeater too, sucks, but continue on.

Im still not going for overwhelming crit, wanna keep insightful reflexes and 2 extra feats wont cover it, but hey, 2x toughness makes up for the con loss healthwise.

New Stats:

Str: 16
Dex: min
Con: Whatever left
Wis: min
Int: Max
Chr: min

Classes Combo:

9druid/9wiz/2monk

New Perks: Still skills and skillpoints, some nice defensive buffs, aoe and dots.

1. Tons of skillpoints every level due to max int and human
2. Stacking Spellpower enhancements, druid and wiz enhancements combined add up for some of the int based ed perks where spellpower is involved.
3. Strong strength buffs, despite starting 16 and raising int on lvl will be able to get 50ish strength easily self buffed.
4. Decent umd despite low charisma(plenty of skillpoints and human boost)
5. Bluff, one of my favorite skills for soloing.
6. Semi-Decent secondary healer with repairs and dot heals maxed emp etc.

Still shadowdancer instakill max possibilities, however this build has some strong options in caster eds as well.

I should expand on the reasons i chose to switch to wiz rather than artificer, the 9 artificer build still couldve worked, i could simply have adjusted stats the same way as i did for the wizrd version, however, the main draw of artificer for my vision of this build was insightful damage buff. Losing some of the other stuff artie brought to the table sucked, but i think a 9druid/4fighter/7rogue would ba eable to do almost all the same stuff as the original build(since insighful damage didnt work out), but would do a lot more damage from sa. Wizard adds a lot to the table that the rog/fighter version doesnt, so thats the way i went.

Rolled the character up, and for 1st life vet my starting con was 14, so dont really need 3 toughness, ill see how it goes healthwise, but im likely going to take extend and quicken with the extra feats, both are really great defensively for this build, extending the short buffs will ensure they dont run out and quicken on crucial heals is gamechanging. Considering i can buff up con quite a bit between tensors and animal growth health should be just fine at any lvl.


Progress

The build at lvl 11, how i got there and a rundown of strengths and weakneses at this point.

Level Progression:

Level 1 Druid - Level 1 Feat: Power attack
Level 2 Monk - Monk Feat: Toughness
Level 3 Wizard - Wiz Feat: Extend, Level 3 Feat: Shield Mastery
Level 4-6 Druid - Level 6 Feat: Druid Feat: Wolf, Level 6 Feat: Empower Heal
Level 7-9 Druid - Level 9 Feat: Insightful Reflexes
Level 10 Monk - Monk Feat: Power Attack(Maximize, see below)
Level 11 Druid - Druid Feat: Winter Wolf

All Stat Levelups: Int

Breakdown: This progression work fairly well for a true lvl one (brand new to game or TR, note again i dont recommend this build to any new player), or a lvl 4 or 7 vet First life. I personally think this progression is best for power at all levels.

Before we start, there are a few feats you need to take at the levels ive shown(assuming youd want the same feats i did on the build), they are Power attack, toughness, Shield mastery and natural fighting, ill explain why soon. Also, you need 9 lvls of druid by lvl 12 to be able to get all 3 natural fighting feats before epic levels(a good idea since there are epic feats that can only be taken at those levels).

Level One - Druid: Power attack because you can get through lower levels far quicker with power attack if meleeing, Likely you wont be able to cast at this lvl unless you have some bta wis items or Owls clickie, cant remember of the top of my head what min lvl is for an owls wand(because i have bta wis items and clickies), but any of those 3 and you can cast and its gravy, get a hire if ya want, get some heal wands if you need, lvls 1-4 arent hard with decent strength and power attack.

Level Two - Monk: Toughness, makes ya tougher... When you have monk levels in a build, you want to make sure you dont take Monk feats at the levels where you get level feats, if you do you can end up taking a monk level and having gotten the feats you needed from monk list leaving you only with feat choices that suck. Wis stance, so you can cast(buff) now with a +1 wis item, Air stance for fighting unless you have some serious twink gear like melee alacrity, just the increase attack speed here will make you shine for the next 4 lvls until people start casting haste(a lot dont bother anymore at low lvl). Use monk attacks often for some xtra dps. Use a +1 wis and Int tome if you have them. More skillpoints at Lvl 4 if you use an int tome.

Level Three - Wizard: Extend, Longer buffs are always nice. Shield Mastery, next level you go wolf, if you offhand a shield this gives you more doublestrike and som prr.

Levels Four to Six - Druid: Level 4 equals Wolf, Faster attack speed, cant use scolls or wands without switching back to humanoid. You can switch to Shield mose if you want, wolf doesnt allow monk stance with a shield equipped, so its a tradeoff, basically, if you have melee alacrity gear use shield, If not use stances. Empower Heal, At this point your basic heals dont quite keep up easily, when you get in trouble use an empowered version.

Levels Seven to Nine - Druid: Gaining a lot of power in these levels, at lvl 8(lvl 6 druid) you get Natural Warrior PRE, pretty nice, you kill stuff a bit faster, and get kill shots a lot more, making it seem like you have higher dps than you do to everyone else. Lvl 9(lvl 7 druid) the holy grail for mid lvl druids, REAVING ROAR, heres how it works, whenever you kill something what is basically a maxed empowered aoe blows up all the mobs around you, killing 90% of them. A good strategy is if youre fighting a high health boss dont attack him, gather a bunch of lower health mobs and drag them to his area, kill one of them and the chain reaction will often clear the room, including the boss, takes some practice, but it works. Insightful Reflexes, monk next level, better evasion.

Level Ten - Monk: Tricky level, this is a veteran multiclasser trick, not hard to do, but easy to screw it up til you know how. I wanted power attack early so i could blast though low level, however, Its one of the feats i needed to take at a monk level, but i want to split the monk levels up to get more skillpoints by not crossclassing balance any more than neccessary. The only way to pull this off is with feat respec, every character is afforded one free feat respec, im not gonna go into how its done, checkk ddowiki if you need to. The reason i took a caster level at lvl one was primarily so i could do this later, right before i level to 10 i feat respec power attack into Maximize, if my first level wasnt a form of caster i couldnt do this. Once i respec i level to 10 and take Power attack as my monk feat, so i never go without power attack, but inderectly, my new feat is maximize, can do a little druid dot damage now and can pop a big heal if i feel the need. Now i have evasion, yay, im a fan.

Level Eleven - Druid: Winter Wolf Time, bit more dps, woo.


Skills: What skills you take comes down to preference, the only ones i STRONGLY recommend for build are Balance and Concentration. Personally, i increase Bluff(works with some wolf moves), UMD, Move Silently, Ton of skillpoints, so this build is versatile skillwise.

Attempt to plan it out so when you level you can max the skills that arent crossclassed at that level to maximize skillpoint efficiency. But with free lesser tr to everyone now, you can redo this no problem, especially after you eat a +4 int tome.

Enhancements: Natures warden and Reaving Roar are the only two of great importance at this point, select "show all" if you dont know prereqs for any enhancements, i went for heal amp, life magic, and toughness enhancements after that, pretty hard to kill that way.


Thats it, stay tuned for progress 11-20, then 20-25 after, build gets crazy later on.


At this point im about to break into epic levels, then next decision is where to start, seeing how i went with maxed int for build ill start with an epic destiny will have some nice synergies and link me to shadowdancer eventually, Draconic Incarnation.

So time for a stat breakdown for int, I already have every item i need to achieve this Int at level 25 other than yugo pots, wether i use yugo pots will be situational.

18 Int at creation +6 lvl ups +2 Wiz Enhc +1 Human Enhc +8 Stat Item +3 Inherent +1 Exceptional +4 Tome +3 Int Raises from within ED = 46 (+18 Mod) Optional +2 Yugo = 48(+19 Mod)

The Big Damage moves in DI ED have DC = 20 + 1/2 charactaer lvl + Int Mod, so my DCs will be 50, 51 with Yugo Int, Very close to the DCs a full caster would have, One or two DC off at most (Like a warforged caster DC Vs that of an otherwise identical drow caster).

Spellpower Depends a lot on gear, but this build can raise it by 130 from enhancements, which is 10 higher than a pure sorcerer can with capstone, however, a pure sorc has some savant tricks that can increase damage by a lot more than spellpower if in the right element.

Critwise this build can get 3% higher crit percentage (12% from enhancements) and 20% higher crit damage than a pure caster can (.95 from enhancements opposed to a pure casters .75 increase), does this equate to more damage from the ED Abilities? I suspect sometimes yes, but likely with exceptions.

Although it may very well just be a typo some abilities say damage is increased by caster level, others say character level, i suspect caster level is derived from character level (and therby caster lvl can still be increased outside of character lvl tho its base is character lvl). If those abilities are based on caster level alone (and unaffected by character level), than its up in the air what will happen damagewise with this build, because it has 2 caster classes, each at 9. Will caster level be 9? add them together for 18? Or character level + any caster lvl increasing ed perks? If i were to gues id say the last, primarily because of how dc for the abilities is derived, but also because there are too many variables otherwise classwise for the other two to be entirely sensical.

Spoilers: Shadow Manipulation DC will be 57-58 when i get to that destiny, Melee Crits will be in the 1000s in LD and FOTW(with about 40% doublestrike chance), Quickened Self heals around 500, and dot heals 100-200 per tick.

I will eventually make short video clips documenting the damage and healing capabilities of the build in various EDs.


Lvl 25: Options

The current angle ive taken on this build has changed from how i had originally planned due to figuring out some new synergies and realizing certain aspects of the build are stronger than i had anticipated.

First of all, i took season druid pre rather than martial, by doing this i can increase spellpower by about 15 more than otherwise when i choose, if i also cast magic fang while weidling a caster implement, even if offhand(thereby being able to melee fully with main weapon in wolf mode) i can incease spellpower a bit more. One option is offhanding an orb, which oddly still adds the 8% doublestrike as if i were using a shield.

My favorite advantage of seasons herald however is springs resurgence, with the heal amp the build has it basically heals me to full whenever I get to 1/2 health, ive used it on a few builds now, but with the defense of this build (shields, displacement, dot heals, massive aoe dps (stuff stops hitting you when dead)) resurgence really shines, cost no mana, very little cooldown and works while knocked down/disabled...

The power of resurgence on this build combined with the fact that my other heals heal me for far more than i need them to allowed me to drop empower healing and replace it with cleave for use in the melee eds.

The obvious use for cleave is to build charges in legendary dreadnaught, while im in dreadnaught ill likely switch enhancements to natures warrior and harrier for the synergy of the attack speed boost in masters blitz, 25% haste with about 40% doublestrike(4% more or less depending on twists) multiplied by the 30% wolf increased attack speed will be something to see i think, tho im not there yet.

Being a fan of odd synergies tho my primary goal for cleave is to use it for shrike procs, more hits is more crits is more temporary mana, ive still yet to check if the temporary mana will stack if i get several before the 1st wears off, just havent watched my mana that closely and i cast quite a bit, especially for a half melee build. In fotw, adrenaline pretty much guarantees a crit next swing, so i plan to use this to get mana with shrike, also cleave combine with adrenaline combined with a level draining weapon (procs on crits) is a great tool to lower saves quickly so there will be no chance of any saves against my twisted energy burst while in fotw destiny. Another nice synergy that i only recently tested to find it worked well is sense weakness with spells, if i twist daunting roar or use some other method to make a mob helpless the damage of energy burst will be 30% higher, and on this build its already massive. Also of note is that due to the attack speed of the build fury eternal will grant me a LOT of adrenaline, and if i use them with the 5w wolf attacks its some serious damage.

As of now however my primary ed is still draconic incarnation, i have maxed spellpower in acid and cold, went acid for the energy burst and gowab, and cold for everything else. Although i lose one dc on my DI Bombs while in wolf form it is of little consequence, if i want i could switch out of form to cast them when timers run out(i have to do that for flybybecause it doesnt work in animal forms oddly), it only cost 5 mana and is just about instantaneous. Although i love draconic incarnation dps, and the shadow perks as well my favorite thing overall about the build is its fairly strong in any ed, i have many characters where i had to suffer getting through bad eds that offered little if anything, and this build just doesnt have that problem.

Oh yeah, DI abilities are do not appear to be based on caster level, they seem based on character level. The reason for so many getting this wrong is only apparent when your in the ed, the elemental(like energy burst) attacks are all multi selectors, and prior to selecting it states damage is increased with caster level, but once you go to select energy type it then correctly states its based on character level, this seems accurate due to the sizable increase in damage that i got when i epic leveled combined with the fact that the character was doing far more damage with the attacks than 9 lvls of wizard wouldve allowed if it were based on caster lvl.

Its been a while but i think i covered most of the questions people had, if you havent noticed i tend to update this when the game is down, and this is only one of many characters/builds im currently playing, so youll have to bear with me on new info, I will likely add only one more part to this, and thats will be how i synergise the twists with each destiny im playing in, went over some of that already, but really only tip of the iceberg.

[oweieie]

Still shadowdancer instakill max possibilities, however this build has some strong options in caster eds as well.

You say that a bunch but without being a drow 20 wiz PM with litany you're 6 INT off "max possibilities". As you don't want to be meleeing with low fortification, you probably aren't using INT yugo pots either so really you're 8 INT behind. If you're using your twists for sense weakness and other melee abilities, you'll be down 10 INT. As there isn't any good melee gear with +3 insightful and +8 enhancement intelligence you're either taking a further hit to your melee abilities or your survivability by spending 2 gear slots getting those, or you're putting yourself down 12 INT or more with +2/+7.

[01000010]

You musve missed the part where i said those who lack creativity stay off thread.

For one you cant add, ill have +2 int from wiz if i choose, and balancing gear is only a problem if youre an idiot no matter what the build, you make choices.

In general when someone says max int they mean in max int for the build(max start for race, int at lvl ups etc), there are drawbacks to playing a drow many dont care for. If i want i can show you many examples of this, starting with 100s of "max strength builds" that arent halforc...

Twists will alter depending on what ed im in, what quest im running and what mood im in.

I already know the build will be very survivable, strong dps, and versatile, at any level range. Im sorry if you cant wrap your mind around this.

But your just being a troll. Get a life.

Go away troll.

[Azarddoze]

You musve missed the part where i said those who lack creativity stay off thread.

For one you cant add, ill have +2 int from wiz if i choose, and balancing gear is only a problem if youre an idiot no matter what the build, you make choices.

In general when someone says max int they mean in max int for the build(max start for race, int at lvl ups etc), there are drawbacks to playing a drow many dont care for. If i want i can show you many examples of this, starting with 100s of "max strength builds" that arent halforc...

Twists will alter depending on what ed im in, what quest im running and what mood im in.

I already know the build will be very survivable, strong dps, and versatile, at any level range. Im sorry if you cant wrap your mind around this.

But your just being a troll. Get a life.

Go away troll.

So glad you kept your agressive attitude! It's TIME for ROUND 2!

On topic: Oh nm, you'll just dish it out and call me troll.

[oweieie]

You musve missed the part where i said those who lack creativity stay off thread.

Pointing out glaring errors makes me uncreative? You must use a different dictionary than the rest of the planet.

For one you cant add, ill have +2 int from wiz if i choose, and balancing gear is only a problem if youre an idiot no matter what the build, you make choices.

Oh, you're right, you're missing the third +1 int. So you're missing 2 from capstone and 2 from lich form putting you 5 behind. Overall you're likely -6 or -7 DC off the maximum you're claiming to be going for. I think what you call creative the rest of the planet calls ********.

And no Sunshine, -7 DC off max is not going to be killing jack all in EE, especially since you've gimped yourself out of Symbol of Death and Energy Drain to name just a couple debuffs you'd need.

In general when someone says max int they mean in max int for the build

That is lovely. What does it have to do with your post exactly? "Still shadowdancer instakill max possibilities" is what you said, and that is NOT what you're building. You're building "shadowdancer no instakill possibility."

Twists will alter depending on what ed im in, what quest im running and what mood im in.

Your build was for shadowdancer and the reason for that is because nothing else will synergize with your build.

I already know the build will be very survivable, strong dps, and versatile, at any level range. Im sorry if you cant wrap your mind around this.

You're wrong. The DPS is utterly worthless, the casting is worse, the survivability is low. The build is a joke.

But your just being a troll. Get a life.

Go away troll.

You post this pile of vomit and call me the troll? LOL!

[cforce]

You say that a bunch but without being a drow 20 wiz PM with litany you're 6 INT off "max possibilities". As you don't want to be meleeing with low fortification, you probably aren't using INT yugo pots either so really you're 8 INT behind. If you're using your twists for sense weakness and other melee abilities, you'll be down 10 INT. As there isn't any good melee gear with +3 insightful and +8 enhancement intelligence you're either taking a further hit to your melee abilities or your survivability by spending 2 gear slots getting those, or you're putting yourself down 12 INT or more with +2/+7.

Go away troll.

Wow. It's a shame, 010 -- I like it when people think out of the box, and was really tickled to read about your insight in another thread that some divine/arcane spellpower combos stack. Creative thinking is a good thing.

Unfortunately, your attitude here is much louder than your ideas. Enough that I'm willing to throw away one to avoid the other. First person to go on my forum ignore list in 2 years, congrats! Try a break from the defensiveness and a healthy dose of introspection.

[Chai]

1. Post build.
2. read criticism of build.
3. label all disagreement trolling.
4. ???
5. profit.

[darthhento]

Deja vú or did you not post the same thread already a few days ago?

And how do you know this build will be all you want it to be? Did you test it out yet? Give us some stat and gear breakdowns for the endgame so that we can see how you're making this work. Just by saying that it works doesn't necessarily make it so.

[Algreg]

I have to say I like your "tutorials". I do not necessarily agree with you 100% of the time, but it is nice to see how someone takes the time to tell people how to build multiclass characters, not merely adding up abilities and hence gimping you build, but how to look for the synergies across classes. Good thing you are doing there

[Viisari]

You know in EVE Online we had a specific term for people like you.

The term was "EFT warrior", though I guess in your case you're actually going through with this lunacy.

But perhaps one day you'll learn that just being unconventional does not make it good.

[Phidius]

The thread title implied general advice, but the Wall-O-Text reads as a specific build. You might want to match the title of your next thread to the name of your build.

[01000010]

What criticism of build? Nitpicking about what maxed int means on a build? The int is easily high enough for its purpose. Saying ill have to make some gear slot decisions and acting like that would kill a build? Everyone has to make slot decisions...

How do i know itll be strong? Ive made a million multiclass including some with similarities to this build. How do you not? Quickend maxed out heals, especially dots on any build makes for a obvious survivor, displacement, +10 con from self casted buffs not counting yugo pots etc etc, cake. I have another build with identical int who can land the shadow kills in ee easily, so i know thatll work(also obvious if you just look at how dc is calculated on the abilities). And dps, Wolf manystrike fighting while standing in aoes and, dots if i want to use them, sneak attack.

So anyone have any thoughtful advice on multiclassing intelligently(what this thread is supposed to be about)?


EDIT: and heres a question for those claiming thats it the build they have a problem with, What heavily multiclassed build that isnt already well accepted or that you didnt make yourself would you not think is gimp, the answer is none, because its not your design, because you dont have the foresight to see the synergies, and because you feel threated by anything different.

SO, no matter what build i used for this design tutorial i wouldve gotten trolled, and you know it, i knew it when i started.

[Azarddoze]

EDIT: and heres a question for those claiming thats it the build they have a problem with, What heavily multiclassed build that isnt already well accepted or that you didnt make yourself would you not think is gimp, the answer is none, because its not your design, because you dont have the foresight to see the synergies, and because you feel threated by anything different.

SO, no matter what build i used for this design tutorial i wouldve gotten trolled, and you know it, i knew it when i started.

I was so threatened by your build I had to post again, sorry.
Most likely threatened that you'll join my group and just start commenting how awesome your build is... just cause it's different and none has ever tried it (for potentially obvious reasons).

What you don't seem to get a grasp on is that people have tried a few times to make you understand that your tone attracts trolling in a big big way. You know, humans are what they are because they can understand and adapt to their surroundings. But you, you still seem to be blind and can't comprehend why its happening this way. In the end, these threads might make you a better person, who knows?

[01000010]

I was so threatened by your build I had to post again, sorry.
Most likely threatened that you'll join my group and just start commenting how awesome your build is... just cause it's different and none has ever tried it (for potentially obvious reasons).

What you don't seem to get a grasp on is that people have tried a few times to make you understand that your tone attracts trolling in a big big way. You know, humans are what they are because they can understand and adapt to their surroundings. But you, you still seem to be blind and can't comprehend why its happening this way. In the end, these threads might make you a better person, who knows?

Again, just anothet personal attack, and im just forcing you to troll. Are you going to wait a few post and then tell me once more how i attract people like yourself to my posts? No valid arguements, nothing specific you can put a finger on thas wrong with the build(because that would allow me to adress youre critique and show that your wrong). Just a general statement about how you just cant help bur troll people like me, especially using the buddy system.

Make me a better person? Lemme guess, like you, a slef confessed troll who just cant help himself, or do you mean a robot with no imagination and identical ability to everyone else that make themselves feel better by believing simplicity is optimal?

[DarkForte]

You're not going to pull off instakills on harder EEs like that, especially not without energy drain. Your DPS will be mediocre compared to a real dps toon due to all the lost slots on int, or even compared a more mixed build such as a juggernaut/battlesoul, as will your heals - you won't be self-healing unless you manage to slot spell power somewhere... at cost either of your mediocre dcs or your mediocre dps. You don't post a gearset, which is just as important as the build when assessing its usefulness. This is a glaring example of how not to build a character - especially the part about not considering gear. You end up with a toon that has a bunch of crappy tricks instead of any decent ones, especially when not considering gearing sources.

Not to say the build is completely useless though. It can keep haste up on the melee on ANY quest in the game! Also it can cast DD on rusted blades farms.

[fredericko]

You're not going to pull off instakills on harder EEs like that, especially not without energy drain. Your DPS will be mediocre compared to a real dps toon due to all the lost slots on int, or even compared a more mixed build such as a juggernaut/battlesoul, as will your heals - you won't be self-healing unless you manage to slot spell power somewhere... at cost either of your mediocre dcs or your mediocre dps. You don't post a gearset, which is just as important as the build when assessing its usefulness. This is a glaring example of how not to build a character - especially the part about not considering gear. You end up with a toon that has a bunch of crappy tricks instead of any decent ones, especially when not considering gearing sources.

Not to say the build is completely useless though. It can keep haste up on the melee on ANY quest in the game! Also it can cast DD on rusted blades farms.

+1

About DPS: "Good" or "decent" DPS only make sense within a scale, and U17's high end of the melee DPS scale is higher than ever. Getting close to top tier requires a big investment in all departments, usually an investment that doesn't afford much diversions.

About DCs: whenever I read about DC's I'm interested in endgame DC's and proper breakdowns of how to hit them, itemization included. That means EE DC's, because EH and EN are easy for nearly any build to solo.

[01000010]

+1

About DPS: "Good" or "decent" DPS only make sense within a scale, and U17's high end of the melee DPS scale is higher than ever. Getting close to top tier requires a big investment in all departments, usually an investment that doesn't afford much diversions.

About DCs: whenever I read about DC's I'm interested in endgame DC's and proper breakdowns of how to hit them, itemization included. That means EE DC's, because EH and EN are easy for nearly any build to solo.

The +1 to darkforte is funny to me, heres why:

1. The last sentence was just a put down, thats it, and a silly one at that. Few would be so dull that they couldn't at least see the buff and healing ability of the build, even if it had no dps(which would be entirely incorrect).

2. Id bet money that if darkforte could now take back what he said there he would, ive proven the dcs, ive shown that ill have higher spellpower than a sorc, and when I choose to be in a melee destiny I will do high damage, X3 crits, 1.3 attack speed, 40%doublestrike, special moves for 5w hits, its not to hard to see at this point since ive now started to break down how ive built it.

3. Darkfortes post made more sense at the time he made it, before augment slots were on a ton of stuff, but even then everyone knew it was coming, gear setup wasn't so hard before, and now? EASY, SIMPLE, OBVIOUS.


As it is the question isn't if I can have a gear setup that covers everything I need for both spell damage and melee damage at once, its how many setups can I come up with? Ill say several, but I would imagine 10+ possible gear setups that would cover all the stats, spellpower and perks I want.


Shein, people like you are exactly the reason I posted this. You have no creativity, you have no valid arguments, you are entirely frustrated by your own inability make any build that can do something unique and so you attack those that do. You know nothing about character design, youre pretty hard to even take seriously.

Iron, yeah, something like that.

[fredericko]

As it is the question isn't if I can have a gear setup that covers everything I need for both spell damage and melee damage at once, its how many setups can I come up with? Ill say several, but I would imagine 10+ possible gear setups that would cover all the stats, spellpower and perks I want.

That can be the case, but just one out of those 10+ possible gear setups would have blocked many posts like that. FWIW, I saw the thread on the "New posts" after you made an earlier post today, gave it a quick read and quoted what seemed to be some legit criticism. I didn't realize I was posting in a one-month-old thread.

[sheintao]

Shein, people like you are exactly the reason I posted this. You have no creativity, you have no valid arguments, you are entirely frustrated by your own inability make any build that can do something unique and so you attack those that do. You know nothing about character design, youre pretty hard to even take seriously.

See, this is the reason i posted. To the contrary, i'm considered extremely created by my peers, and have several unique characters. Or, at least they were unique when i came up with them. I'm a serious multi-classer, and that's the one thing that has kept me playing this game. I love the synergy that can be created. That's why i clicked on your thread. Your comment here shows exactly why so many people have a problem with you. You don't know me at all, yet from my one small comment about your attitude, you are suddenly able to discern that 1) i have no creativity, 2) i'm frustrated by my inability to make a unique build, 3) i know nothing about character design, and 4) that i'm unable to make a valid argument. Wow, that's pretty insightful... or should i say, moronic. Not one of those things is true. You have no basis for any of those claims, yet you voice them like they are facts. That discredits, as far as i'm concerned, all your comments. Grow up.