Wail bugged?

[Tyrande]

Didnt have anything else running [...]
20 + 10 +20 = 50 DC
And even if he did roll 20, the hell, a kobold with cr 2 or 3 with reflex 30? 0o
[

AFAIK, the kobold just need to roll a 20, doesn't matter what save it has if it has evasion...

Same thing with the monk or rogue... CR50+ monsters casting chain lightning, the monk (2+ levels) or the rogue (2+ levels) roll a 20: Save... 0 damage...
(and of course the CR50+ monsters will spam it until you fail)
(again, you wonder why some monsters like disintegration, since even on a 20, it does some damage)

Also, I have seem three '1's in a row, but never seen three '20's in a row. No Dice?

I don't think there is an ED ability yet that let kobolds fail on a 20 because it failed to match up to your DC...

But there is one for save on a 1 if the character' saves are high enough...

[cdbd3rd]

Wail isn't making noise...

>.>

<.<

...and my H'orc still can't laugh.

Jus' sayin'.

[XatheX]

Were you by yourself, or were you in a mob of allies? I'm going to see if it might be picking invalid targets with the random selection of targets.

Edit: The main thing that changed with U17 was that we made it randomly select targets, so it wouldn't get hung up on immune targets.

I was running (in crystal cove 25-26) 25 level Wiz Pale Master / 5 Drc incarnation.

I was running Duo with 1 person running lines (almost never near each other) I was clearing/scouting

Most of the time only hitting one hobgoblin at a time sometimes no effect that I could see. I NEVER failed a Spell pen check in this event.

It seemed like the spell was trying to target the caster, me. so most of the time I only got 1 hobgoblin at a time.

I have no proof that it was targeting me, but it does make some amount of sense.

[Cauthey]

>.>

<.<

...and my H'orc still can't laugh.

Jus' sayin'.

Thank goodness treasure chests tinkle, at least. (NOT.)

[Weyborn]

Were you by yourself, or were you in a mob of allies? I'm going to see if it might be picking invalid targets with the random selection of targets.

Edit: The main thing that changed with U17 was that we made it randomly select targets, so it wouldn't get hung up on immune targets.

I have to say I never submitted a bug, but this has been going on for awhile

Many talked about it I just assumed you all knew this by now

yes its not working, i can vouch for that as well

I am a PM who is enchant spec'd because of it

[TPICKRELL]

Still not carrying wail, but I did have a string of bad luck with energy burst last night that might provide a hint.

I was running the DQ raid, and had Efreeti in the opening sequence were not affected by energy burst about half the time. The efreeti were fully active (they were hitting me) and were all within touch distance and at times 2 of the 3 would not be hit. This hallway is interesting because it has a lot of terrain features that are on slightly different z-axis levels in a small space.

I spent a lot of time in the cove and energy burst was pretty relaiable. Occassionally one of the mobs would not get hit when I thought it sho\uld have, but a failure was pretty rare.

[JayDubya]

I consider DDO to be my favorite "first person shooter" in the fantasy genre. As a result, I mostly solo.

When my Wail gets wonky (i.e. most of the time), I'm standing by myself in the middle of a swarm of bad guys. And by "bad guys", I mean enemies. I'm sure from their perspective, many of them are not actually bad people. It's their own fault for giving XP, though. If they didn't carry XP that I could take from them, then I wouldn't be in there killing them in the first place.

But they don't give you XP, that's the tragedy. They're just things that are inbetween you and your objective, and getting XP is easier with them dead. You monster.

[HungarianRhapsody]

But they don't give you XP, that's the tragedy. They're just things that are inbetween you and your objective, and getting XP is easier with them dead. You monster.

Okay, their deaths make it slightly more convenient for me to get XP. That's good enough for me!

[Seikojin]

Were you by yourself, or were you in a mob of allies? I'm going to see if it might be picking invalid targets with the random selection of targets.

Edit: The main thing that changed with U17 was that we made it randomly select targets, so it wouldn't get hung up on immune targets.

Can we get more clarification on this? Because that fundamentally breaks the mechanics of the spell. What do you mean hung up on immune targets? Are you saying you changed it to cycle through random targets in the AoE, and attempt to wail them? This way if something is immune it moves past it? If this is the case, what happens if a target moves into the AoE before, during, or near the end of the effect?

[oweieie]

Can we get more clarification on this? Because that fundamentally breaks the mechanics of the spell. What do you mean hung up on immune targets? Are you saying you changed it to cycle through random targets in the AoE, and attempt to wail them? This way if something is immune it moves past it? If this is the case, what happens if a target moves into the AoE before, during, or near the end of the effect?

As the spell should just be hitting everything to begin with, it shouldn't even count immune mobs towards the 6 it targets. That is a horrible kludge hack on top of an already horrible nerf.

[Keylon]

anyone else feel like this is all part of a nerf to casters in general. Personally, I'd love if they spent more time on fixing broken spells. I mean if you think about it Wail isn't the only spell that's broken or not WEI. Here's some spell descriptions (adjusted for bug accuracy):




Implosion
Cooldown: 60 seconds
Spell Point Cost: 50
Target: Self
Level: 9 (Cleric, Favored Soul)
Components: Somatic, Verbal
School: Evocation
Metamagic: Quicken
Spell Resistance: No
You create a destructive resonance field around yourself that lasts 10 seconds. Every 2 seconds, the aura has a 50% chance to cause one nearby corporeal enemy to collapse in upon itself and die or cause 4 to 6 damage per caster level. A successful Fortitude save negates the death effect. You are free to perform other actions while the aura is active.\n\nD&D Dice: Kills one corporeal enemy every 2 seconds for 10 seconds or deals 2d3+6 damage per caster level.





Snowball Swarm
Cooldown: 3 seconds
Spell Point Cost: 8
Duration: 2 Seconds
Target: Foe, Positional
Level: 2 (Sorcerer, Wizard)
Components: Material, Somatic, Verbal
School: Evocation
Metamagic: Empower, Enlarge, Eschew Materials, Heighten, Maximize, Quicken
Spell Resistance: No
A flurry of magical snowballs erupt near your target, dealing 4 to 6 cold damage per two caster levels (max 20 to 30) once . A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half.\n\nD&D Dice: Deals 1d3+3 cold damage per two caster levels (max 5d3+15).




Frost Lance
Cooldown: 2 seconds
Spell Point Cost: 10
Target: Foe, Directional, Breakable
Level: 3 (Sorcerer, Wizard)
Components: Somatic, Verbal
School: Evocation
Metamagic: Empower, Heighten, Maximize, Quicken
Spell Resistance: No
Shoots a target with a freezing energy spear, dealing 24 to 40 cold damage on impact. The number of lances increases by 1 for every four levels beyond 3rd, to a maximum of three at 11th level (two for Sorcerors with quicken spell enabled). A successful Fortitude save reduces the damage by half. As a Ray this spell has double range.\n\nD&D Dice: Deals 4d5+20 cold damage per lance.

[Sqrlmonger]

Were you by yourself, or were you in a mob of allies? I'm going to see if it might be picking invalid targets with the random selection of targets.

Edit: The main thing that changed with U17 was that we made it randomly select targets, so it wouldn't get hung up on immune targets.

What would be awesome is if it ignored things that were immune due to race or type (i.e. undead, etc..). Obviously it should not automatically ignore things with Deathward on them as that is an intended interaction, but to me things that are "living targets" should be the ONLY thing the spell sees as legal targets.

Randomly picking targets is really a terrible way to do this imho, can't we have wail prioritize whatever you are currently targeting as a target to use in the next wave of checks? This gives players some control over their own spell and adds some skill to using it.

If you can do both of these things (living targets ONLY and current target as one of the next targets effected (provided it is within range of course)) I think it would fix most of the complaints people have with the spell.

[justagame]

I just want to confirm that this is definitely affecting Implosion as well, not just Wail. In many cases it affects 0 or 1 mobs, sometimes 2 at most. And by "affect", I mean not even apparent saves or spell resists from mobs -- just nothing. It seems to happen a lot when I'm a group with lots of friendlies around. Just ran a quest with a couple of guildies, and a bunch of hirelings, summons, etc. and half the time it would affect no mobs at all. Very frustrating. So please, while you're looking into this for Wail, please do so for Implosion as well.

[Jaxom_Faux]

donno if anyone else has already mentioned this (too lazy to read every post) but i have a feeling it's the 'ol epic immunities bug. the giants in tor have always been wonky for my PM ever since epic quests came out.

i really think someone forgot to flip the right switches on that "buff" and there's lots of partial immunities still attached. otherwise why do i get a deathward symbol for my necrotic bolt (and deal no damage at all, not even a 0 ) yet my finger of death still kills giants after the buff was reverted to allow insta-kills?

[Inouk]

donno if anyone else has already mentioned this (too lazy to read every post) but i have a feeling it's the 'ol epic immunities bug. the giants in tor have always been wonky for my PM ever since epic quests came out.

i really think someone forgot to flip the right switches on that "buff" and there's lots of partial immunities still attached. otherwise why do i get a deathward symbol for my necrotic bolt (and deal no damage at all, not even a 0 ) yet my finger of death still kills giants after the buff was reverted to allow insta-kills?

It's not as simple as that, because sometimes wail will fail to proc on the first tick, then work fine on the second (same cast, same targets). And as you pointed out Finger seems to work as expected. The problem seems to be on the spell side, not the target side. Although you bring up an interesting point in that MANY things in eGH don't take damage from the SLA either, nor do they take damage from necrotic ray, but they can be fingered and take damage from finger if they save. No SLA ability is another big nerf to a hurting class in eGH.

Eladrin? Can you look into this also?

[Keylon]

Maybe I'm being a crazy conspiracy theorist here, but doesn't this seem an all to convenient way to nerft Pale Masters. I mean look at the way Pale Masters are now:
1) They are fully vulnerable from stat damage from poison and disease yet have no way of healing that stat damage, short of going out of form and wasting 100 sp and having to wait 1 minute before they can go back into form. Afaik the devs even said at one point that they plan to give pale masters a way to deal with stat damage, here we are several updates later and pale masters are still vulnerable to it.
2) EE saves are so high that only the best of the best pale masters can kill things there, and stuff there hits so hard it makes aura heals impractical.
3) Wail, one the the pale master's, signature spells is now about as useful as throwing a lump of coal.

[Drona]

Edit: The main thing that changed with U17 was that we made it randomly select targets, so it wouldn't get hung up on immune targets.

Dear Eladrin

Why is this iconic spell is a pathetic state? Why are you raping it Update after Update and gang-raping it every patch/hotfix?

Remove the crappy Implosion mechanism. Fix Wail. Give us back the pre-MOTU wail.

Thanks.

[oweieie]

Maybe I'm being a crazy conspiracy theorist here, but doesn't this seem an all to convenient way to nerft Pale Masters. I mean look at the way Pale Masters are now:
1) They are fully vulnerable from stat damage from poison and disease yet have no way of healing that stat damage, short of going out of form and wasting 100 sp and having to wait 1 minute before they can go back into form. Afaik the devs even said at one point that they plan to give pale masters a way to deal with stat damage, here we are several updates later and pale masters are still vulnerable to it.
2) EE saves are so high that only the best of the best pale masters can kill things there, and stuff there hits so hard it makes aura heals impractical.
3) Wail, one the the pale master's, signature spells is now about as useful as throwing a lump of coal.

You missed...
a) giants are all immune to negative energy damage so the PM's spell like ability is useless.

b) the progression to level 25 made the already utterly useless pet portion of the PM class even more pointless.

c) HP numbers continue to climb, damage numbers get bigger, but no epic replacement for negative energy burst and aura which have failed to keep up and healing amp does nothing.

[Nitesco]

anyone else feel like this is all part of a nerf to casters in general.

Maybe I'm being a crazy conspiracy theorist here, but doesn't this seem an all to convenient way to nerft Pale Masters.

That is exactly what it is, this will have been discussed internally. It's a cynical 'lesser of evils' approach, based on past player reactions. They know they will lose more customers through blatant nerfs, while allowing bugs through which have negative impact on players can be much more easily managed, while relying on fanboism and partisan moderation to mitigate criticism and dissent. This type of thing is just another manifestation of 'race to the bottom'.

[Eladiun]

Were you by yourself, or were you in a mob of allies? I'm going to see if it might be picking invalid targets with the random selection of targets.

Edit: The main thing that changed with U17 was that we made it randomly select targets, so it wouldn't get hung up on immune targets.

If it uses the same randomizing algorithms the rest of the game does it'll likely never work right again.