anybody want to see psychic warrior

[Silken-Akira]

I just started to build a psychic warrior for a Dark Sun campaign and I am really surprised how fun that class is.
then when playing DDO on a night I wondered how there are no psychic classes. Although I realize the work to bring them in balnced out just right is huge. but just wondering and wanted to know what others thought about this.

[LongshotBro]

I'm down with that. Psionics in general is something i hope to see implemented down the road. There's so much source material to draw from. If we're lucky we'll see that and a whole lot more over time.

[Mastikator]

Psionics is something they've already implemented on the monsters's side with the Dreaming Dark and the Inspired. A Kalashatar update with playable Psion and Psychic Warrior classes would be very nice and fit perfectly into the current game lore.

[Arddhu]

Since psionics have a MASSIVE sinergy with Monks, I think we will not see it soon... you know, the *DOEVERTHINGEFFORT* to don't allow monk to be the ultimate melee XD

[Zachski]

That... assumes that they would implement psionics the way they are in D&D.

Considering the game mechanics and the way they've changed Artificer and Monk, I would venture to say that they will make changes to better implement it.

I kinda wanna see Warlock, too, though.

[HastyPudding]

That... assumes that they would implement psionics the way they are in D&D.

Considering the game mechanics and the way they've changed Artificer and Monk, I would venture to say that they will make changes to better implement it.

I kinda wanna see Warlock, too, though.

Warlock and Psion would be my two favorite picks for a new class, but the past 3 classes released have been caster-based; favored soul, artificer, and druid. It's unlikely that a the next upcoming class (whenever that is) will be a caster. At best, warlock would work because it's neither arcane nor divine, and would fit into the empty specialist slot. They could make it a double feature; bring out both warlock and warlord, that makes all class categories even: melee, arcane, divine, and specialist.

Still, with all the quori-related stuff in the game already (gianthold, dreaming dark, inspired quarter, lord of blades, etc), I wouldn't be surprised to see a culmination of what all of this has been building up to with a release of a new dreaming dark update, releasing kalashtar and psions as playable.

This is an old argument, though, and those opposed to psions will say that it's too close to the current system and they're too close to wizards in functionality. Warlocks, as well, while popular, receive a lot of bad rep because people tend to think 'omz WoW warlocks, we don't need those' and don't understand what a DnD warlock is.

[Zachski]

Warlord sounds like one of those wonderful ideas on paper that'll never work out because it's not really feasible to play a pet-focused build in this game.

I don't really know what melee classes they could add, though, other than Warlord.

[Aashrym]

Warlock and Psion would be my two favorite picks for a new class, but the past 3 classes released have been caster-based; favored soul, artificer, and druid. It's unlikely that a the next upcoming class (whenever that is) will be a caster. At best, warlock would work because it's neither arcane nor divine, and would fit into the empty specialist slot. They could make it a double feature; bring out both warlock and warlord, that makes all class categories even: melee, arcane, divine, and specialist.

Still, with all the quori-related stuff in the game already (gianthold, dreaming dark, inspired quarter, lord of blades, etc), I wouldn't be surprised to see a culmination of what all of this has been building up to with a release of a new dreaming dark update, releasing kalashtar and psions as playable.

This is an old argument, though, and those opposed to psions will say that it's too close to the current system and they're too close to wizards in functionality. Warlocks, as well, while popular, receive a lot of bad rep because people tend to think 'omz WoW warlocks, we don't need those' and don't understand what a DnD warlock is.

Warlocks are arcane characters in 3.5 so I can't see Turbine disassociating arcane from the class if it's ever added to DDO. I can easily see them added as specialists if they ever do become added.

I'm not really a fan of warlords. I'd rather see psionic characters.

[Kilbar]

I'd cheerfully pay two hundred dollars just to play psionicists, especially if they were modeled on ADnD 2nd Edition Complete Psionics Handbook rules. Us fortunately, I'd literally have to be on the dev team to make sure they didn't screw it up.

Also, Wild Talent feats... I dunno about 3e, 3.5e, or 4e but 2e had the possibility of non-psionicists getting a special psionic power if you rolled really well on percentile dice. It was called a Wild Talent and you could potentially get several of them with a good enough roll.

Anyway, this could be represented in the game by non-psionicists being able to buy the Wild Talent feat.

If this already exists, ignore me. I only play 2e tabletop and DDO.

[Entelech]

It all depends on how they implement Psionics.

To be brutally honest, Psionics were broken in 1st Ed, terrible in 2nd Ed, highly problematic in 3.5, and flavorless in 4e. There is no good Pen-and-Paper ruleset to base them on, so they'd have to come up with the concept from whole cloth, despite the Kalashtar / Inspired lore of Eberron.

That said, it might be cool to have them around. They did a good job with Artificer despite similar handicaps.

[dejafu]

I think if they are at all interested in implementing psionics, Psychic Warrior would definitely make more sense than Psion (since current DDO mechanics are already a lot like 3.5 Psions).

Though I think an even better option would be to roll the Psychic Warrior class and the Soulknife class into one.

[Disavow]

It all depends on how they implement Psionics.

To be brutally honest, Psionics were broken in 1st Ed, terrible in 2nd Ed, highly problematic in 3.5, and flavorless in 4e. There is no good Pen-and-Paper ruleset to base them on, so they'd have to come up with the concept from whole cloth, despite the Kalashtar / Inspired lore of Eberron.

That said, it might be cool to have them around. They did a good job with Artificer despite similar handicaps.

This being said, while something like a Psion is very similar to a wizard in both feats and spell / power selection (The crystal pet would be... more like an extra semi-exchangeable feat for its bonus. The feats you could make around it are actually quite unique though), Psionic Warrior would be a nice addition. Not sure about 1st ed, but in 2nd they were interesting enough. In 3.5, other than the issue you would have to address about, Psionics ~ Magic and how they would interact, or even if they would, was probably one of the only problems I can think of.

Just Fyi, we, as in DDO, are actually using the original system for a Psionic in 3.5 you do know this right? Psionics in 3.5 use the power point system, instead of the usual spell slot system that all other spell casting class archetypes use (sans things like warlock, since they are a spell-like ability class and have no spells). There are even rules to switch normal spell slot classes over to using the spell point system, such as in Unearthed Arcana 3.5, which is what DDO as an MMO uses to be more fluid, and comparable to systems that people are already used to.

It wouldn't be hard at all to add something like Psionic Warrior to the game as is. Their offensive and defensive buffs are already in the game, as several classes now have self/party weapon/armor buffing spells (powers in this case ofc).

[Silken-Akira]

After reading a bit about Eberron there is even a whole land/continent that is very psionically active so would be a nice chance for a future expansion in view of a story arc

[HastyPudding]

After reading a bit about Eberron there is even a whole land/continent that is very psionically active so would be a nice chance for a future expansion in view of a story arc

That was my initial thought. It would make the perfect place for an expansion.

As to implementing psionics, it wouldn't be too difficult. Sure, some of the powers are synonymous with some arcane (and even divine) spells. If it played out correctly, a Psion would be a real contender for crowd control as they have a plethora of mind control and debuffing abilities. That said, they would have a glaring weakness against undead, since probably 80% of their powers are mind-affecting, which undead are immune to. Psionic augments would be a little more difficult to put in the game.

Warlock would be so much easier to implement. Just have their SLA (eldritch blast) on a 2-3 second cooldown so they can spam it suitably, and add their blast shapes and blast essences like metamagic (make them add 1-2 seconds to the cooldown of the eldritch blast for balancing purposes). Invocations would be absurdly easy to add.

[Matuse]

First thing to determine is just how exactly this would be different from a class that already exists.

One of the big draws of psionics in a PnP campaign is they use a point system instead of memorization...well we already have that.

So what do psionics bring to the table that isn't already there?

[Jaid314]

i get this feeling that a lot of people aren't at all familiar with 3.5 psionics based on some of the responses in this thread.

so, let's start:

- psionics are 'problematic': there are a few problematic powers, but otherwise, it's actually much closer to balanced than 3.5 spellcasting... provided you actually know and follow the rules, which is where most supposed problems with 3.5 psionics begin. which is all beside the point because DDO wouldn't exactly be using the exact same rules as 3.5 psionics anyways (the spell point system is close-ish, but not quite the same).

- psionics not bringing anything new: new flavour, new abilities, vastly improved blasting abilities, greater self-sufficiency than most arcanes, better utility and offensive powers than most divines, a trade-off in the lack of ability to buff others, and a focus on different kinds of abilities. augmentation is also quite a bit different than standard spellcasting, and means that you can often use a low level power to get the effect of a higher level ability, although you pay the cost for that higher level ability as well.

- 80% of their powers mind-affecting: perhaps for telepaths. probably not even then, since they can choose from a wide variety of powers open to all psions regardless of discipline. there are 6 different kinds of psions, only one of them is focused on mind-affecting stuff at all. there are additionally at least 2 other psionic base classes in vanilla 3.5, and neither of them are even a tiny bit focused on mind-affecting powers.

- we already use 3.5 psionics rules for spellcasting: no, not really. spells still scale for free, up to their cap, and then stop. psionics scales as high as you want to pay for, but you have to pay for it; a level 1 energy ray can be augmented to do 20d6 damage (provided you have the manifester level to be able to put 20 power points, or the equivalent of a level 10.5 spell if it existed, into the power). that's probably the main difference, but it's pretty noticeable. it might be somewhat clumsy if translated to DDO; however, now that you can choose to put different versions of the same spell with different metamagics on your hotkeys, i'd say the technology is there to take advantage of that now. additionally, DDO spellcasting has nothing even remotely similar to psionic focus, which is used for many psionic feats and class abilities.

- wild talent: already exists in 3.5, as well as a "high-psionics" version called hidden talent which more closely resembles the old 2e wild talents (in that the wild talent feat doesn't do anything other than give you PP, which gives access to psionic focus and psionic feats, while hidden talent actually gives you access to a power, albeit only a level 1 power).

- massive synergy with monks: err... not really. the primary rule of character optimization is "thou shalt not give up caster levels", and it remains true for psionics. thematically, they fit extremely well. but for the most part, it doesn't really work all that well to combine monk and psionic classes, at least in vanilla 3.5 (pathfinder psionics is done by a third party company based on 3.5 psionics, and has a few options that help with combining monks and psionic classes given the obvious thematic similarities).

also, on a quasi-related note, to the person who thinks warlords are a pet class: warlords are a 4th edition martial "leader" class (read: healer). the 3rd edition equivalent is the marshal from the miniatures handbook (could be wrong on source), and neither are pet classes; they are both focused on improving their party's abilities.

[Dopey_Power]

It all depends on how they implement Psionics.

To be brutally honest, Psionics were broken in 1st Ed, terrible in 2nd Ed, highly problematic in 3.5, and flavorless in 4e. There is no good Pen-and-Paper ruleset to base them on, so they'd have to come up with the concept from whole cloth...

The Dreamscarred Press has done a superb job with PnP Psionics. I'm sure Jaid would attest to this as well.

[SealedInSong]

Jaid did a good job outlining a lot of the stumbling blocks for DDO implementing psionics, but given what happened with druids and artificers, I can still see lots of ways for them them to give psions abilities that are flavorful and unique/semi-unique to DDO.

I can also see them recycling and updating a lot of existing mechanics.

Also, I can definitely see them conflating soul knife and psychic warrior and psion into one psionic class with different enhancement trees, kind of like druid. You could build a melee psion, a caster psion, etc etc.

I think the druid in particular is a good example of what Turbine could probably whip up: selectively taking some things they can implement (SOME wild shapes, SOME spells) and focusing on adding both recycled mechanics and a few flashy new things that, whether or not they are core to some other classes, are unique to psions in DDO (compare: druids getting earthquake and storm of vengeance but other divines not getting it).

[Maelodic]

I would love that. I have always loved mentalists, but they're so rare in videogames that it's difficult.

Some kind of displacement based CC ("repositioning mobs") would be really awesome. Throw mobs down pits or into traps. Some kind of melee conjured weapons or something along those lines would be also fantastic.

[HastyPudding]

Jaid did a good job outlining a lot of the stumbling blocks for DDO implementing psionics, but given what happened with druids and artificers, I can still see lots of ways for them them to give psions abilities that are flavorful and unique/semi-unique to DDO.

I can also see them recycling and updating a lot of existing mechanics.

Also, I can definitely see them conflating soul knife and psychic warrior and psion into one psionic class with different enhancement trees, kind of like druid. You could build a melee psion, a caster psion, etc etc.

I think the druid in particular is a good example of what Turbine could probably whip up: selectively taking some things they can implement (SOME wild shapes, SOME spells) and focusing on adding both recycled mechanics and a few flashy new things that, whether or not they are core to some other classes, are unique to psions in DDO (compare: druids getting earthquake and storm of vengeance but other divines not getting it).

I never thought of it that way. You could easily make just one psionic class. Then, you could take one of the three PrE's, psychic warrior, psion, or soul knife, depending on what feats, etc you take. They would have to have some sort of balance, like the original psion, if you specialized in a certain type of psionic 'school' you were weakened in another. Like if you took the psion PrE, you would lose physical offensive power like strength and dexterity, or if you took the soul knife, you would lose casting potential like caster levels and spell slots. I really love that idea.

Some kind of displacement based CC ("repositioning mobs") would be really awesome. Throw mobs down pits or into traps. Some kind of melee conjured weapons or something along those lines would be also fantastic.

You just described the Soul Knife class. They make a short sword (which can be upgraded to a different, stronger weapon) out of psionic energy and wield it, splitting it into two, make vorpal strikes, tossing it, etc.