Wisdom based race!

[Yehediah]

Everyone can take their gnome hate and go jump off a cliff!

NO new races until they complete the base ones - and that means gnomes!!! ;-)

After that, yes, Aasimar and Tiefling would be a nice addition...

[Uska]

Everyone can take their gnome hate and go jump off a cliff!

NO new races until they complete the base ones - and that means gnomes!!! ;-)

After that, yes, Aasimar and Tiefling would be a nice addition...

Since we are based on Eberron (FR is just a place to visit for now) we are missing more than gnomes as a base race kalashatar(however you spell it but yes please) shifters(yes please) changlings(meh) gnomes(yes please)

[FranOhmsford]

Since we are based on Eberron (FR is just a place to visit for now) we are missing more than gnomes as a base race kalashatar(however you spell it but yes please) shifters(yes please) changlings(meh) gnomes(yes please)

Yark!

Kobolds ignored again!

[Saravis]

I second the Aasimar and Tiefling addition, could make for a nice addition to a "Return to Shavarath" update, assuming that we eventually return to Shavarath.

Of course, not until we get our Turnip lovers first, though.

[FranOhmsford]

I second the Aasimar and Tiefling addition, could make for a nice addition to a "Return to Shavarath" update, assuming that we eventually return to Shavarath.

Of course, not until we get our Turnip lovers first, though.

/NOT SIGNED EVER to Aasimar or Tiefling Player Characters - Can you say OP?

Drow are forced into less build points {choosable} than other races for being supposedly more powerful {Even though they've had the majority of their PnP benefits removed in DDO too}.

H-Elves came out and were given {to my mind} insane bonuses compared to Humans, Elves, Drow {their closest rivals shall we say for builds}.

Aasimar and Tieflings would finish off the marginalisation of Elves and Drow in DDO AND would cause severe marginalisation of the Human race too!



I also feel that Changelings/Shifters etc. would also be Overpowered in DDO.

On the other hand I'd love to see Psionics in DDO and if this means having to see a second Human Race {Kalashtar are basically Human after all} then fine.
Gnomes should have been in from the start {I'd love to see Svirfneblin BUT I'll take Tinkers as we already basically have Kender instead of Halflings}.

Since we got H-Orcs I see no real point to bringing Orcs in as a playable race BUT would love to see Kobolds added as a playable race WITH Goblins taking over the sewers of Stormreach!


In Effect - I'd like to see two updates/packs...

Psionics + Kalashtar - New Quest Chain in IQ/Isle of Forgotten Dreams

&

The Little People Pack - Kobolds and Gnomes added as Playable characters - Goblins added as New Mobs - Quest chain designed around the Goblin invasion of Stormreach's Sewers and The Kobolds integration into Society.

[Uska]

Yark!

Kobolds ignored again!

Not ignored just was talking core races Kobolds should be number one addition of noncore races

[Uska]

/NOT SIGNED EVER to Aasimar or Tiefling Player Characters - Can you say OP?

Drow are forced into less build points {choosable} than other races for being supposedly more powerful {Even though they've had the majority of their PnP benefits removed in DDO too}.

H-Elves came out and were given {to my mind} insane bonuses compared to Humans, Elves, Drow {their closest rivals shall we say for builds}.

Aasimar and Tieflings would finish off the marginalisation of Elves and Drow in DDO AND would cause severe marginalisation of the Human race too!



I also feel that Changelings/Shifters etc. would also be Overpowered in DDO.

On the other hand I'd love to see Psionics in DDO and if this means having to see a second Human Race {Kalashtar are basically Human after all} then fine.
Gnomes should have been in from the start {I'd love to see Svirfneblin BUT I'll take Tinkers as we already basically have Kender instead of Halflings}.

Since we got H-Orcs I see no real point to bringing Orcs in as a playable race BUT would love to see Kobolds added as a playable race WITH Goblins taking over the sewers of Stormreach!

I cant see how changlings or shifters especially changlings would be overpowered in ddo and assimar and teiflings should be 28/30/32 pt and wouldnt be a problem. Svirfneblin would need to be tweaked a bit not to be overpowered

[Saravis]

/NOT SIGNED EVER to Aasimar or Tiefling Player Characters - Can you say OP?

Drow are forced into less build points {choosable} than other races for being supposedly more powerful {Even though they've had the majority of their PnP benefits removed in DDO too}.

H-Elves came out and were given {to my mind} insane bonuses compared to Humans, Elves, Drow {their closest rivals shall we say for builds}.

Aasimar and Tieflings would finish off the marginalisation of Elves and Drow in DDO AND would cause severe marginalisation of the Human race too!

If they implement them exactly as they are in PnP, then yes Aasimars and Tieflings would be OP, but they obviously wouldn't do an exact copy. Could they be OP, sure, but in that line of thinking they could end up being UP as well, as you've noted with the Drow. Its the responsibility of the Devs to properly balance them.

As for the humans, I'd be very surprised if they ever get marginalized. There will always be humans.

[Yehediah]

Gnomes are the only core race missing - core is defined as the main book (PHB) and in some cases to include the DMG/MM. The other races mentioned are important to certain worlds and settings, but not core.

However, with that said - I'm fine with consideration of other races AFTER gnomes are added to complete the core races and classes.

[Uska]

Gnomes are the only core race missing - core is defined as the main book (PHB) and in some cases to include the DMG/MM. The other races mentioned are important to certain worlds and settings, but not core.

However, with that said - I'm fine with consideration of other races AFTER gnomes are added to complete the core races and classes.

Shifters should be before gnomes they are core by eberron where we are based and add more than gnomes as gnomes add nothing but flavor really

Eberron is core for ddo so all eberron races are core for ddo

[FranOhmsford]

If they implement them exactly as they are in PnP, then yes Aasimars and Tieflings would be OP, but they obviously wouldn't do an exact copy. Could they be OP, sure, but in that line of thinking they could end up being UP as well, as you've noted with the Drow. Its the responsibility of the Devs to properly balance them.

As for the humans, I'd be very surprised if they ever get marginalized. There will always be humans.

Drow aren't P2P {400 favour is a snip and the DDOStore is a trap!}

I'll take H-Elves as my example for how I feel the Devs would introduce Aasimar and Tieflings!

In PnP also the likes of Aasimar, Tieflings etc. {even Dragons} can be played and NOT cause undue issues!
This is because the likelihood is that this would be in a setting where those characters were the standard or weaker than most NPCs anyway.
OR and more likely - There would be ONLY one of said race in game! {and that player would be role-playing an outlander}!

In DDO however - We'd suddenly see 100s of these on at any one time {Warforged are the obvious example here!} and a corresponding drop in the number of certain other races!

With Humans, Dwarves and Drow{yes Drow} currently being highly thought of as Clerics - Aasimar's arrival {with +2 Wis} would marginalise these races as choices.
H-Elf would still have Dilletante!

Tieflings would cause similar issues for Elves and Halflings AS WELL as further marginalising Humans and Drow!

WF and H-Orcs have their Strengths {no pun intended} though could also suffer.

In effect - Adding Aasimar and Tiefling would turn DDO into Demons and Angels Online! {with a side order of H-Elf + WF Artis of course}.

[Zachski]

Everyone can take their gnome hate and go jump off a cliff!

NO new races until they complete the base ones - and that means gnomes!!! ;-)

After that, yes, Aasimar and Tiefling would be a nice addition...

Core races can eat my fireballs.

Gnomes are boring. They're slower halflings who are a little heartier. Whatever flavor ideas you have don't apply to 3.5 because gnomes don't have any bonuses to wizardry, sorcery, or bardic abilities, aside from some wimpy bonus to illusion DC.

Gnomes need a good reason for being added, and "core" is not a good reason. You can scream about how core races need to be added first until you're blue in the face, but unless gnomes get a bonus to charisma or something, they should be left on the drawing board.

The reason I say this is because it is annoying how every single topic about new races is invaded by people screaming about gnomes first, and the reason they always give is that gnomes are a "core race."

We already have two constitution races, we don't need a third.

[Kilbar]

Core races can eat my fireballs.

Gnomes are boring. They're slower halflings who are a little heartier. Whatever flavor ideas you have don't apply to 3.5 because gnomes don't have any bonuses to wizardry, sorcery, or bardic abilities, aside from some wimpy bonus to illusion DC.

Gnomes need a good reason for being added, and "core" is not a good reason. You can scream about how core races need to be added first until you're blue in the face, but unless gnomes get a bonus to charisma or something, they should be left on the drawing board.

The reason I say this is because it is annoying how every single topic about new races is invaded by people screaming about gnomes first, and the reason they always give is that gnomes are a "core race."

We already have two constitution races, we don't need a third.

Just remind the gnome fans that gnomes only first appeared as a "core race" in 1st edition ADnD, so technically the true original core races (Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling) are already complete. Gnomes are merely some Johnny-Come-Latelies no better than Horcs and Drow.

[Uska]

Gnomes are the only core race missing - core is defined as the main book (PHB) and in some cases to include the DMG/MM. The other races mentioned are important to certain worlds and settings, but not core.

However, with that said - I'm fine with consideration of other races AFTER gnomes are added to complete the core races and classes.

That is how you define core I define core as phb,dmg, setting book I dont inculded the mm due to how many races are in there. This game started and is still mainly Eberron so the races from the source book are core and as another poster put it gnomes are boring and I dont mind them adding them but they add zero to the game.

[Yehediah]

Core is defined as the 3 main books (and for player races, monster races don't generally count).

You can say X is core for Eberron all you want - but, the basic DnD definition of core is the 3 main books, which are sold as the "core":
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...core/966480000

X might be an important race in Eberron, but we also now have Forgotten Realms, so, it gets real complicated on that methodology.

Now, to those who don't like gnomes and keep complaining about the "core" argument - I've pointed out in countless threads how much gnomes bring and how silly and childish it is to say "gnomes are a wimpy halfing" or "gnomes are a wimpy dwarf" - both of which are, contradictory as the halflings and dwarves are very different, ergo, by the consensus of the naysayers, gnomes are neither a deficient halfling, nor a deficient dwarf.

And, to say they don't bring anything to the table for x class but "Con" is again, silly - it assumes different rules for gnomes over what is done for the other races. Every race has enhancement perks taken from various splat books - and, gnomes would be no different (see my other threads on this). Ergo, gnomes bring a lot of choices for artificers, bards, wizards, and rogues. And, it would mean, to be consistent with how DDO does every other race and class, bringing in a few more illusion spells making their bonuses even nicer for flavor.

[Mrphish]

I dont have any expirence with any form of pnp d&d, all i've got is my time spent playing baulders gate and the neverwinter nights games.

But i seem to recall (correct me if im wrong) gray orcs getting a +2 wisdom, but i think they had a -2 to int and cha too... could be wrong on that, haven't played those games in awhile. i think they would make a very solid choice for a wisdom based race.

however me personally i could care less what the next implimented race is and tbh if you ask me i think we already have more than enough races and classes... i'd rather see the dev's spend time on, fixing bugs, improveing pre-existing content, finishing the enhancement pass, fixing and adding some new epic destinies(*cough* arti destiny *cough*), toss out another FR pack or two, then maybe look at adding more races/classes.

[Uska]

Core is defined as the 3 main books (and for player races, monster races don't generally count).

You can say X is core for Eberron all you want - but, the basic DnD definition of core is the 3 main books, which are sold as the "core":
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...core/966480000

X might be an important race in Eberron, but we also now have Forgotten Realms, so, it gets real complicated on that methodology.

Now, to those who don't like gnomes and keep complaining about the "core" argument - I've pointed out in countless threads how much gnomes bring and how silly and childish it is to say "gnomes are a wimpy halfing" or "gnomes are a wimpy dwarf" - both of which are, contradictory as the halflings and dwarves are very different, ergo, by the consensus of the naysayers, gnomes are neither a deficient halfling, nor a deficient dwarf.

And, to say they don't bring anything to the table for x class but "Con" is again, silly - it assumes different rules for gnomes over what is done for the other races. Every race has enhancement perks taken from various splat books - and, gnomes would be no different (see my other threads on this). Ergo, gnomes bring a lot of choices for artificers, bards, wizards, and rogues. And, it would mean, to be consistent with how DDO does every other race and class, bringing in a few more illusion spells making their bonuses even nicer for flavor.

Your the one saying core and Eberron isnt core so by your own rules gnomes bring zero to artificers unless you bring in noncore stuff gnomes are flavor only and so have about the lowest priority of anything.


You also keep ignoring the chief point the game is based on Eberron so the source book IS CORE deal with it.

AS to the realms we visit it but for now its high lvl only and we arent from the so you point isnt one.

[Aashrym]

I wouldn't be trying to fit gnomes in as a WIS based race but they do belong in the setting. They would go hand in hand with illusions and I would hope to see them in addition to more illusions.

"Some say that the Zil wrested the secrets of elemental binding from the ruins of Xen'drik, and they jealously guard this secret."

Gnomes belong

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041129a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041206a

Kalashtar also belong and we see psionic abilities in game already, but there is a non-psionic variant that gets bonus SP if playing a spontaneous casting class, if a bit more of Eberron flavor can be added and we won't be seeing psionics.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20060925a

After pale master undead shrouds were created and druids were added I would have thought shifters would be the next race added. They are very much a part of the Eberron settings and also belong.

I wouldn't be looking at other races until those are added regardless of some requests for a WIS based race. Then looking at Aasimar and Tieflings.

[Yehediah]

You also keep ignoring the chief point the game is based on Eberron so the source book IS CORE deal with it.

Sad. CORE in DnD means the 3 main books - end of story. You can argue that the Eberron books are very important because they DDO is based on the Eberron world - but, core does not change it's meaning simply because you want it to.

[RedDragonScale]

Sad. CORE in DnD means the 3 main books - end of story. You can argue that the Eberron books are very important because they DDO is based on the Eberron world - but, core does not change it's meaning simply because you want it to.

Uska's right and you're wrong from the Eberron point of view. Deal with it.