Monk - Greatmaster of the Storms

[Serenei]

Here you are the Monk that I plan to build (currently lvl6):

It's a DEX based Monk using some tomes not too expensive.
Two objectives in this build:
- Shintao Monk III
- Void Strike IV

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Monk 
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Male
(20 Monk) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 20
Will: 19

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             14                 16                   16
Dexterity            16                 23                   24
Constitution         14                 16                   16
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom               16                 18                   22
Charisma              8                  8                    8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               7                 20                   20
Bluff                -1                 -1                    1
Concentration         6                 25                   37
Diplomacy            -1                 -1                   -1
Disable Device       n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                 -1                    1
Heal                  3                  6                    6
Hide                  3                 12                   16
Intimidate           -1                 -1                   -1
Jump                  5                 18                   20
Listen                3                 12                   14
Move Silently         3                 14                   16
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                 -1                   -1
Search               -1                 -1                   -1
Spot                  3                  6                    6
Swim                  2                  3                    3
Tumble                4                  8                    8
Use Magic Device     n/a               n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Adept of Flame


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Enhancement: Shintao Monk I


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Enhancement: Void Strike II


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Shintao Monk II


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Master of the Sea


Level 15 (Monk)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Master of Thunder


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Void Strike III
Enhancement: Master of Stone


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Shintao Monk III


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Void Strike IV

Any suggestion?

[Munkenmo]

Any suggestion?

Have a look at the epic feat vorpal strikes.

Don't put anything into dex beyond what you need to qualify for grandmaster of wind, invest in wis or str instead.
Don't pick up the feat weapon finesse, get improved sunder or mobility or another toughness instead.

Don't pick up improved crit slashing, get improved crit bludgeoning.
If you're fighting with anything except handwraps, start fighting with handwraps.

Your build strikes me as outdated, since the release of the expansion pack the to hit / ac formula's have been changed, and given how little there is between your final str / dex scores, there's likely to be no real world difference in your too hit with or without weapon finesse.

[Serenei]

Have a look at the epic feat vorpal strikes.

I have'nt look at that for the moment because I plan to do a True Reincarnation as soons as possible after the lvl20.
But I could be a good idea to test it during farming of the Epic quests.

Don't put anything into dex beyond what you need to qualify for grandmaster of wind, invest in wis or str instead.
Don't pick up the feat weapon finesse, get improved sunder or mobility or another toughness instead.

You don't like DEX monk? Why do you think that STR/WIS based are better?
What advice would you give me to choose between STR and WIS?

Don't pick up improved crit slashing, get improved crit bludgeoning.

The goal was to used it with TWF (Kama) but of course if the target is to take the epic feat vorpal strikes "improved crit bludgeoning" is required. You seems use TWF mainly with handwraps. Is it right?

If you're fighting with anything except handwraps, start fighting with handwraps.

handwraps is it always better that Kama? When are you using anything except handwraps?

Your build strikes me as outdated, since the release of the expansion pack the to hit / ac formula's have been changed, and given how little there is between your final str / dex scores, there's likely to be no real world difference in your too hit with or without weapon finesse.

I am not aware of these things but I am very interrested about the formula!

Anyway I will replace weapon finesse by improved sunder.
I was not sure about Dodge. What is your point of view about it?

Many thanks for your help

[Munkenmo]

I have'nt look at that for the moment because I plan to do a True Reincarnation as soons as possible after the lvl20.
But I could be a good idea to test it during farming of the Epic quests.
if you're tr'ing straight away then epic feats are mostly a wash, but vorpal strikes works out to 5damage a swing, allows you to bypass slashing damage, and insta kills any elligible enemy on <1000 hp, it's definately worth invest 23 points into wisdom for

You don't like DEX monk? Why do you think that STR/WIS based are better?
What advice would you give me to choose between STR and WIS?
Dex doesn't add anything to damage, it doesn't really matter for to hit now with the formula changes, and you've got improved evasion / good passive saves, Meaning if you've qualified for feats / stances any further investment could be viewed by some (like myself) as a waste. Str based monks obviously hit harder, and remove any doubt as to weather or not weapon finesse is worth it, wisdom based monks are more likely to land special abilities, like stunning fist, quivering palm, touch of death, jade strike, etc.

The goal was to used it with TWF (Kama) but of course if the target is to take the epic feat vorpal strikes "improved crit bludgeoning" is required. You seems use TWF mainly with handwraps. Is it right?
kama's have a poor base damage profile, poor critical damage profile, and they prevent you from using some ki abilities. Stunning fist / quivering palm included.

handwraps is it always better that Kama? When are you using anything except handwraps?
99.999999% of the time handwraps are better for melee than kama's. The only times I don't use handwraps would be when i'm using a shuriken to hit a ranged lever. Some casters with monk splashes may use an alchemical kama to boost their wisdom by 2, and they're about the only ones who could justify it.

I am not aware of these things but I am very interrested about the formula!
Player’s chance to hit (if proficient in weapon): (Player’s Attack Bonus + 10.5) / (Target’s Armor Class * 2) + 25%, rounded to nearest 5%

Players graze on a 2+ on the attack roll d20.

Anyway I will replace weapon finesse by improved sunder.
I was not sure about Dodge. What is your point of view about it?
I like dodge, and would recommend it to anyone who's not hit their dodge cap.

Many thanks for your help
any time

in red

[Serenei]

Thanks you very much for all these tips.

Here you are my new build based on my current lvl6 character.
In this build I swap lvl2 feat "Weapon Finesse" with "Precision" (coming at lvl9 in my first build).
At lvl9 I will take "Improved Sunder" and perhaps I will replace it by "Resilience" at hight level.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Monk
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Halfling Male
(20 Monk) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 18
Will: 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             14                 20                   20
Dexterity            16                 19                   20
Constitution         14                 16                   16
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom               16                 20                   24
Charisma              8                  8                    8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               7                 18                   18
Bluff                -1                 -1                    1
Concentration         6                 25                   37
Diplomacy            -1                 -1                   -1
Disable Device       n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                 -1                    1
Heal                  3                  7                    7
Hide                  3                 10                   14
Intimidate           -1                 -1                   -1
Jump                  5                 20                   22
Listen                3                 13                   15
Move Silently         3                 12                   14
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                 -1                   -1
Search               -1                 -1                   -1
Spot                  3                  7                    7
Swim                  2                  5                    5
Tumble                4                  6                    6
Use Magic Device     n/a               n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Adept of Flame


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Shintao Monk I


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Enhancement: Void Strike II


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Shintao Monk II


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Master of the Sea


Level 15 (Monk)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Master of Thunder


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Void Strike III
Enhancement: Master of Stone


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Shintao Monk III


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Void Strike IV

NB: THis build is now qualified for epic feats: Improved Martial Arts & Vorpal Strikes but will require a Tome +4 in Wisdom.

[Munkenmo]

NB: THis build is now qualified for epic feats: Improved Martial Arts & Vorpal Strikes but will require a Tome +4 in Wisdom.

There is still 1 ability raise in dex.

You could put that into wisdom instead meaning you only need a +3 tome,

You could also put your ability raise at level 24 into wisdom, personally though, i'd aim to qualify for vorpal strikes at level 21 as I find it more noticeable and more fun than improved martial arts.

[bruener]

wraps are alsways better except maybe low lvls against fleshy dead types but seriously i dont use them then. just get a low lvl set of wraps with acid,fire or shock and lesser undead bane. your wrap damage with soon outweigh your kama damage.

and yes whoever said go str or wis over dex is correct. get enough dex for the TWF line thru creation and tomes and put your lvl ups into str or wis.

but this is your toon afterall. your build wont be "gimp" as a dex build but without a high wis your stunning fist and quivering palm will be meh. and stunning fist is the bread and butter of the monk.

[Serenei]

There is still 1 ability raise in dex.

I know but I cannot change it because my character is already lvl6 (DEX Ability increased at lvl4)

[Munkenmo]

that makes sense then, mind if i ask what server you're playing on?

personally if you're stretched for resources, (which you strike me as being), i'd put your level 16 and 20 stat points into wisdom allowing you vorpal strikes at 21 with a +2 wis tome.

then put your level 24 point into str again.

[Serenei]

wraps are alsways better except maybe low lvls against fleshy dead types but seriously i dont use them then. just get a low lvl set of wraps with acid,fire or shock and lesser undead bane. your wrap damage with soon outweigh your kama damage.

Good idea! I will check it.

but this is your toon afterall. your build wont be "gimp" as a dex build but without a high wis your stunning fist and quivering palm will be meh. and stunning fist is the bread and butter of the monk.

What you you think about the ability increases?
lvl4: DEX (badly already done)
lvl8: STR
lvl12: STR
lvl16: WIS
lvl20: WIS

At the end my WIS base will be 26 and my STR remains correct.

[jbleargh]

You don't like DEX monk? Why do you think that STR/WIS based are better?

I believe that there is a consensus that with the changes in the AC/To hit WIS is way better.

A monk that can't land stunning fist is a not monk. It is the ability that makes a monk different from others melees and is amazing from lvl1 to epic elite.

[Serenei]

Is it possible that Precision don't work in the same time that Power Attack?

If I must choose one, is it better to take Precision?
In another way Power Attack is required for Improved Sunder ...

[Darkrok]

Is it possible that Precision don't work in the same time that Power Attack?

If I must choose one, is it better to take Precision?
In another way Power Attack is required for Improved Sunder ...

From what I've seen people say Precision really only makes sense for monks that are doing a lot of sneak attack damage whether that be from Half Elf Rogue Dilettante, Ninja Spy (dark monk), or a rogue splash. That's because precision increases the amount of sneak damage you'll do against targets with fortification. For a light monk it would rarely make sense. Monks don't have a good enough crit profile to worry about it for that purpose. And you are correct, Precision and Power Attack are mutually exclusive - you can only use one or the other though you can swap between them.

Power attack is required for Improved Sunder. If you can fit in Improved Sunder it's really nice - it can raise your chances of landing stuns/quivering palm in challenging content. That said, I wouldn't consider it a required feat - just a nice bonus.

[HungarianRhapsody]

If you're fighting with anything except handwraps, start fighting with handwraps.

Shuriken are also good for fighting. Levers seem to have really huge DR against melee weapons, so at least one throwing weapon is important.

As long as you're not trying to hit a lever, though, then Handwraps are the way to go.

[bruener]

What you you think about the ability increases?
lvl4: DEX (badly already done)
lvl8: STR
lvl12: STR
lvl16: WIS
lvl20: WIS

At the end my WIS base will be 26 and my STR remains correct.

no right or wrong answer here. its personal preference really.

i prefer wis based over str based but str based has its uses as well especially against bosses that cant be stunned. wis affects your ac and your stuns not to mention quivering palm and other finishing moves. a stunned mob takes 50% more damage and doesnt hit back. I didnt add a single lvl up point into str. they all went to wis. str is the easiest stat to buff. IMHO the plus 1 to hit and damage wasnt as important as the plus 1 to stun.

dont worry about the lvl up into dex. it wont gimp the build. who doesnt want a better reflex save anyway?

what server are you on? i have loads of monk stuff that i would gladly give ya

[Aerendil]

From what I've seen people say Precision really only makes sense for monks that are doing a lot of sneak attack damage whether that be from Half Elf Rogue Dilettante, Ninja Spy (dark monk), or a rogue splash. That's because precision increases the amount of sneak damage you'll do against targets with fortification. For a light monk it would rarely make sense. Monks don't have a good enough crit profile to worry about it for that purpose. And you are correct, Precision and Power Attack are mutually exclusive - you can only use one or the other though you can swap between them.

Power attack is required for Improved Sunder. If you can fit in Improved Sunder it's really nice - it can raise your chances of landing stuns/quivering palm in challenging content. That said, I wouldn't consider it a required feat - just a nice bonus.

Meh, just stun the buggers and you get your sneak attack bonus damage anyways. Most mobs aren't going to have stellar fortification anyways, unless you're talking EE content or bosses.

PA is such a stellar dps improvement, it's hard to give it up for a bit of fortification bypass. On a pure Rogue, or an archer, sure, Precision is fantastic. But on a Monk, even a dark Monk? Tough call indeed.
For reference, I just TR'ed my 2xPL Rogue into a Monk, and going Dark will net me sneak attack damage of 3d6 (half-elf, Rogue dile) +3d6 (Ninja Spy II) +2 (Rogue PL) +10 (Sneak of Shadows clicky) +13 (Avithoul ring). In other words, approximately +46 damage from SA dmg, which is almost the best case scenerio for a pure Monk, and I still aim on going with PA, unless I see a valid arguement otherwise for Precision.

[Darkrok]

Meh, just stun the buggers and you get your sneak attack bonus damage anyways. Most mobs aren't going to have stellar fortification anyways, unless you're talking EE content or bosses.

PA is such a stellar dps improvement, it's hard to give it up for a bit of fortification bypass. On a pure Rogue, or an archer, sure, Precision is fantastic. But on a Monk, even a dark Monk? Tough call indeed.
For reference, I just TR'ed my 2xPL Rogue into a Monk, and going Dark will net me sneak attack damage of 3d6 (half-elf, Rogue dile) +3d6 (Ninja Spy II) +2 (Rogue PL) +10 (Sneak of Shadows clicky) +13 (Avithoul ring). In other words, approximately +46 damage from SA dmg, which is almost the best case scenerio for a pure Monk, and I still aim on going with PA, unless I see a valid arguement otherwise for Precision.

Precision is pretty much for boss damage from the arguments I've seen. Personally I don't like the idea but that's the only argument I've seen that's at least valid for going that route on a monk.