Need Advice on FvS life

[delsoboss]

Hey all, i'm going for a FvS life and i need some advice on a couple of things.

First, some background:
Drow
4th life (2 Wiz and 1 Clr past lives)
Pure FvS

Intent of the build: caster FvS, static group, Heroic Elite Streak, no EEs, some easy raid healing (but never solo) like Shroud, maybe Reaver's Fate and VoD or HoX.

Now the tricky things:

- Feats: 1) Toughness 3) Power Attack 6) Maximize 9) Past Life: Arcane Initiate 12) Empower 15) Quicken 18) Heigthen

Is this feat selection viable? Note: power attack is there because i meleed from time to time in my cleric life and it was horribad, i don't want to experience that feeling ever again.

- Stats: i really don't know what to do here, i was thinking of something like:
Str 13
Dex 10
Con 12
Wis 17
Int 10
Cha 17
With +2 Tomes on every stat
Are these stats viable? Too much Charisma? Too low? Should i forget str and meleeing and focus more on Wis/Cos/Cha?

Thanks in advance for your insight

[delsoboss]

Uh ... no one has any tip to share?

[HastyPudding]

- You're obviously a spellcaster, that means you don't need much strength. Drop it to 10 (the only time you'll be melee is probably before level 12 and FVS get a small buff to their chosen weapon of faith, and access to both divine power and divine favor).

- More constitution. Drow have low HP and only 2 racial toughness enhancements, and while the FVS class tends to have higher HP than other spellcasters, a 12 base con is dangerous, in my opinion.

- Drop charisma to 14-16 and max out wisdom. You'll have more than enough SP as a FVS and should always have a charisma item on, anyway. If you're a spellcaster, you'll need the wisdom for DC's.

- As far as feats go, drop power attack. Once you hit 12, your offense will go through the roof and you'll rarely find yourself in a melee situation. Switch for an evocation focus, empower healing, or even mental toughness.

- Drow is okay, but I prefer humans for FVS. The extra feat is invaluable to a feat-starved class, they have more flexibility with stats and no penalty to HP, as well as having more racial toughness. 30% healing amp is also nice to have.

[delsoboss]

Oh well, the 13 Str and PA are there to help melee in the low levels since low level spells aren't that usefull and i would like to avoid piking my first 12 levels.

Two question came to my mind:

1 - Can temporary stat decreases (like Cha drain in the IQ and DD chains) prevent you from casting level appropriate spells if the relevant stat drops too low (like Cha dropping to 16 preventing the cast of 7th, 8th and 9th level spells)?

2 - Are stat tomes read before TR applied at 3rd and 7th level before feat selection during level up or after?

The answer to the first question will help me decide ho much to lower Cha, a positive answer to the second question will mean i can lower Str to 12, pick up PA at 3rd level and respec it out later when i will not melee anymore.

[HastyPudding]

Oh well, the 13 Str and PA are there to help melee in the low levels since low level spells aren't that usefull and i would like to avoid piking my first 12 levels.

Two question came to my mind:

1 - Can temporary stat decreases (like Cha drain in the IQ and DD chains) prevent you from casting level appropriate spells if the relevant stat drops too low (like Cha dropping to 16 preventing the cast of 7th, 8th and 9th level spells)?

2 - Are stat tomes read before TR applied at 3rd and 7th level before feat selection during level up or after?

The answer to the first question will help me decide ho much to lower Cha, a positive answer to the second question will mean i can lower Str to 12, pick up PA at 3rd level and respec it out later when i will not melee anymore.

1 - Yes. Having stat damage in int/wis/cha prevents you from casting spells in your particular class if drops too low.

2 - Yes. Say, if you had an int +2 tome used before you TR, and you TR and reach level 7 with 11 int, you'll have 12 int, giving you that extra skill point. Stats are, of course, added at the level when you could use the tome, so if you had a +4 tome read before you TR'd, you would get +1 at level 3, +2 at 7, +3 at 11, and +4 at 15.

[Matuse]

I would never make any character under any circumstances with less than 12 strength.

Strength drain is immensely common at -all- levels, and being helpless or even heavily burdened is a serious problem.

[delsoboss]

Thanks.

Think i'll go with:
Str 12
Dex 10
Cos 12
Sag 18
Int 10
Car 16

With +2 tomes everywhere, all level ups in Wis, taking PA at 3rd level and respeccing it later when i don't need it anymore.

[voodoogroves]

Have you considered, instead of PA, taking Great Axe or Greatsword and swinging a meaty two-hander?

[HungarianRhapsody]

Have you considered, instead of PA, taking Great Axe or Greatsword and swinging a meaty two-hander?

If you pick the correct race, you even get Greatsword as a free feat.

Before you get Heal scrolls, repair pots work just fine.
Once you get Heal scrolls, you don't need anything else for self-healing.

It might sound odd to make a FvS that drinks pots, but you can fling offensive spells with abandon and lay the smack down on your enemies with that big Greatsword.

Unless you have some really impressive gear, it's going to be hard to make DC based offensive spells land on Elite while leveling after the first few levels. It's possible, but it's hard. If you don't want to worry about putting out that effort, you can just not worry about it and beat down your enemies with no-DC spells and a Greatsword.

[Theolin]

Something to think about

You only need a 19 charisma to cast lvl 9 spells anything more is just for spell points (which are not that much per 2 points) so if you have a +2 tome ... consider 20 (round number)-2 (tome)-6 (item)-1/2 (enhancement) = 10/11 for starting charisma

Wisdom is important for your DC so get it up as high as possible - if you go that direction

If you have 1/2 elf consider fighter dili for the weapon proficiencies

[voodoogroves]

I'm pretty sure "drow" is a requirement based on the OP.

Any race can spend a feat and swing a decent two-hander.


I would drop whatever (PA, proficiency, etc.) at 12 though, and ensure you had Quicken by then. I hate running VON or DQ without Quicken at level.

[Jeromio]

Thanks.

Think i'll go with:
Str 12
Dex 10
Cos 12
Sag 18
Int 10
Car 16

With +2 tomes everywhere, all level ups in Wis, taking PA at 3rd level and respeccing it later when i don't need it anymore.

I'd probably start with at least 14 Con. You don't really have to put many points into Cha unless you're making a UMD build.
Did you consider making a helf with fighter dilly in order to be able to swing a twohander now and then?

[HungarianRhapsody]

I'd probably start with at least 14 Con. You don't really have to put many points into Cha unless you're making a UMD build.
Did you consider making a helf with fighter dilly in order to be able to swing a twohander now and then?

For Drow, 12 is 14.

Half Elf will make a better Favored Soul with the Fighter dilly than a Warforged will. In spite of the fact that Warforged are clearly the superior race. I stand by my recommendation of a Warforged FvS because it is more awesome in spite of the fact that it's generally not as easy to play or as effective.

[Myrrae]

*Deleted because it's already been answered and I didn't see it*

[delsoboss]

Thanks everyone for your input.

Drow race is staying, that's my drow character.

Plus i don't own half-elves or warforged, both are ugly and i hate those pseudo-robot running around everywhere.

Right now the character is a level 20 cleric farming epic tokens to TR:
- the only quest where i had problems landing spells was running with the devils elite and that was more because of spell pen than DCs;
- i started with 12 con and i've never felt the need for more hp, even with a sucktastic reflex save, a burst or a quickened heal work wonders;
- FvS have access to class toughness enhancements;

Based on this, i think i'll keep Con at 12 and Cha at 16 because i don't feel the need for more hp and prefer to have a tiny bit more sp to cover any casting need that may arise due to needing to recast spells because they didn't land for Spell Penetration, because the enemy saved or whatever may happen.

I'll think about PA vs Proficiency because i have a Carnifex lying on a bank toon that could be put to good use, so the contest is Carnifex without PA vs Longswords with PA.

[Machination]

Going by your description of your intent, I would make this points to think about:

1.If you max your spell pen you can get to upper 30's or low 40's .

2. As you are 36 point build, you may consider maxing your WIS and putting all points into WIS. This will help you get the highest DC's possible on your implosion (arguably the most effective FVS spell around), comet fall (pretty much your only CC), and Blade Barrier (AOE kite damage).

3. Nix Power Attack. Although nice for leveling, unless you plan on being in Dreadnought or Fury ED at cap, I would not bother. Feats overall I would recommend at cap go: Toughness, Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, Past life:arcane initiate, Maximize, Heighten, Quicken, Spell Focus: Evocation, Epic Spell Pen. You will find that your spells will be much more effective than hitting anything in EH content this way. I really like hitting things while leveling and build my FVS with power attack, cleave, great cleave while leveling but respec once I hit 23-25 for straight up healer/evoker. It is just a lot more effective use of your mana and more useful to the party in general.

4. CHA can be a dump stat on FVS. The only thing it gets you is extra mana. Just make sure that you plan to always have enough that when you level you don't get stuck not able to cast spells at your level (the minimum CHA is 10+ SPELL LEVEL). So you need at minimum (BASE+GEAR+TOMES+ENHANCEMENTS) only 19...yes that means even with the cheap eveningstar gear you are already above with enhancements. I always go with a few points into CHA but not too much, as its only extra mana and not a lot. I prefer those points into CON (for hit points) or DEX (for reflex save, something which is pretty important at cap, more so that the little extra mana you get in my opinion).

5. I would start with a much higher CON than 12......more like 15 at the very minimum. Hitpoints and SAVES go a long way at cap.

Anyway, just my two cents. You will get a lot of different opinions and how you build your toon depends a lot on your playstyle. Best of luck!

[Myrrae]

I thought the elf spell pen enhancements only worked if you had at least one level of wizard?

Delso, if you were a cleric I'd maybe say go for Carnifex because you can radiant burst down all of the undead, but I've been contemplating a FvS life and I suspect Power Attack may work out better in the short run. Although I since I'll be running in a group, I'm thinking that SF: Enchantment may be my "swap out later" feat instead of PA, since Command = 50% more damage for everyone.

[Machination]

I thought the elf spell pen enhancements only worked if you had at least one level of wizard?.

I completely forgot about that and yes you are correct and I botched that one! I have edited my original post.

[Myrrae]

I completely forgot about that and yes you are correct and I botched that one! I have edited my original post.

If it did work for non-wizards my FvS life would have a high probability of being an elf!

[backandforth]

I would only make a human fvs just because of the extra feat.

You need at least one spell penetration feat ,otherwise you cant even get the spell pen from the destinies and also you should max the spell pen enhancements. Good the +4 from wiz life but not enough.

Light spells at low levels can do nice damage ,with an ioun stone for sp and mental toughness empower and maximize. Take a decent fighter/barb hireling run to the end spam light spells and heals .

Your extra charisma will not give you a lot of spell points, not worth it IMO.