DC Caster Levels

[thompsonizer]

How do I find out or calculate the dc of my spells? Someone in a pug once said my earthquake has a 57 dc. I'm a noob and would like to know where mine is in comparison(likely not close) so I can try to adjust. I tried searching for threads on this already but havent found any so any info will be appreciated. Thanks

[Syllph]

the easiest way is to hover your pointer over the spell on your hotbar for a few seconds. A tooltip will appear showing your current DC.

But if you want to understand that number:

DC = 10+ Casting stat (Wisdom for Druids) + Spell Level + Gear + feats

So Earthquake is a level 8 spell so base DC = 18 (10 + casting level of 8)
Gear is things like +2 Evocation focus
Feats = spell Focus
Casting stat = every 2 points after 10 = 1 more DC. so 12 wisdom = +1 DC, 14 wis = +2, etc.

Now we also have epic destinies which can add several more to your DCs.

[Enoach]

While I agree the easiest method would be to just put your mouse over the spell on your hotbar and read the tooltip, I also believe it is important to understand the math.

Spell DCs basic formula is

10 + Spell Level + Caster Ability Modifier + Enchantment + Feats + Epic Destiny Enhancements = DC

Spell Level: The Level of the Spell in this case Earthquake is a level 8 Spell. However, if capable of casting Level 9 spells the use of the Feat Heighten will increase the Spell Level to 9.

Caster Ability Modifier: This is the + Number next to your primary casting ability. For Druid that is wisdom. Example a 40 Wisdom would be a +15 Bonus to your Spell DC.

Enchantment: Items/weapons with School DC bonuses. They do not stack and will always use the highest if multiple are equipped. In this case Earthquake is Evocation spell, so any item that grants a +1 or +2 will help

Feats: These are the spell focus feats available, for each school there is a Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Epic Spell Focus feat. Each grants an additional +1 DC for the school so there is a potential of as much as +3 to your DC. Also the first 3 Past Lives of Sorcerer grant a +1 DC per life max +3 to Evocation Spells. If all SF feats and the 3 past lives are present that would be a +6 DC to Evocation spells. Wizard Past Life (active) feat grants +1 DC to every school

Epic Destiny Enhancements:
Draconic Incarnation has the ability to raise either Conjuration or Evocation DCs by +3 (Tier 2 Ability)
Magister has the ability to raise any school DCs by +3 (Tier 2 Ability)
Magister has a Tier 5 Innate ability to raise all DCs +5 for 20 Seconds (4 minute cooldown)

So Assuming a few numbers
10 (Base)
09 (Spell Level Heightened)
15 (Caster Ability Modifier 40 Wisdom)
02 (Enchantment Greater Evocation Focus item)
07 (Feats SF/GSF/ESP Evocation + 3 Sorcerer Past Lives +1 Wizard Active PL Feat)
06 (Epic Destiny Enhancements Both magister and draconic Tier 2 abilities twisted/available)
==
49
54 -> 20 Seconds of Magister Innate ability

Now this is an investment of 5 Feats - Heighten, SF, GSF, ESP and Arcane Initiate as well as an assumption of 4 past lives (3 sorcerer and 1 Wizard). So you may need to adjust your numbers based on what feats and past lives you actually have.

[thompsonizer]

Thanks for the detailed replies!! So I got the numbers worked out and I was right(no where near 57). The only way to get that much would be like you said with past lives and I really wanted to see how far I can take this first lifer. Also I still cant get tooltip to display the dc? Is there a special UI skin or something? I use the default. Thanks again for the response

[Enoach]

Under UI Settings make sure Tooltip Enable is checked

[Inouk]

While I agree the easiest method would be to just put your mouse over the spell on your hotbar and read the tooltip, I also believe it is important to understand the math.

Spell DCs basic formula is

10 + Spell Level + Caster Ability Modifier + Enchantment + Feats + Epic Destiny Enhancements = DC

Spell Level: The Level of the Spell in this case Earthquake is a level 8 Spell. However, if capable of casting Level 9 spells the use of the Feat Heighten will increase the Spell Level to 9.

Caster Ability Modifier: This is the + Number next to your primary casting ability. For Druid that is wisdom. Example a 40 Wisdom would be a +15 Bonus to your Spell DC.

Enchantment: Items/weapons with School DC bonuses. They do not stack and will always use the highest if multiple are equipped. In this case Earthquake is Evocation spell, so any item that grants a +1 or +2 will help

Feats: These are the spell focus feats available, for each school there is a Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Epic Spell Focus feat. Each grants an additional +1 DC for the school so there is a potential of as much as +3 to your DC. Also the first 3 Past Lives of Sorcerer grant a +1 DC per life max +3 to Evocation Spells. If all SF feats and the 3 past lives are present that would be a +6 DC to Evocation spells. Wizard Past Life (active) feat grants +1 DC to every school

Epic Destiny Enhancements:
Draconic Incarnation has the ability to raise either Conjuration or Evocation DCs by +3 (Tier 2 Ability)
Magister has the ability to raise any school DCs by +3 (Tier 2 Ability)
Magister has a Tier 5 Innate ability to raise all DCs +5 for 20 Seconds (4 minute cooldown)

So Assuming a few numbers
10 (Base)
09 (Spell Level Heightened)
15 (Caster Ability Modifier 40 Wisdom)
02 (Enchantment Greater Evocation Focus item)
07 (Feats SF/GSF/ESP Evocation + 3 Sorcerer Past Lives +1 Wizard Active PL Feat)
06 (Epic Destiny Enhancements Both magister and draconic Tier 2 abilities twisted/available)
==
49
54 -> 20 Seconds of Magister Innate ability

Now this is an investment of 5 Feats - Heighten, SF, GSF, ESP and Arcane Initiate as well as an assumption of 4 past lives (3 sorcerer and 1 Wizard). So you may need to adjust your numbers based on what feats and past lives you actually have.

And it's likely that the caster he grouped with has 50+ wisdom, probably high 50's. So assuming the feats and past lives are correct above, a 56 Wisdom (and it's possible to be higher) gets you to 57 without arcane spellsurge.

[Enoach]

And it's likely that the caster he grouped with has 50+ wisdom, probably high 50's. So assuming the feats and past lives are correct above, a 56 Wisdom (and it's possible to be higher) gets you to 57 without arcane spellsurge.

It very much is possible to be higher, but what would that take?

18 Base
05 Level Ups
04 Tome <- Not everyone has a +4 tome, but everyone can dream of getting one
03 Wisdom Enhancements
08 Enchantment
03 Insight <- +2 More common +3 can be found on rare items or sets
01 Exceptional
06 Destiny <- This is spending 12 of the 24 Points in a destiny for wisdom leaving 12 points for other stuff
==
48

03 Twists <- Spending all Twists on Wisdom from 3 other destinies (4 destinies have Wisdom as an option)*
02 Yogolth <- Yogoloth Favor in Amrath
03 House D <- Collectable turn ins last 2 Minutes
02 Store bought Ability Potions (Cost of TP)
02 Bard Ability Song - Available from an Epic Bard
==
60

*Of course you loose the Magister Twist if you use all twists on Wisdom (1 Wisdom or +3 DC your Choice)


So I agree absolutely possible that the person was a 57 DC. But also not likely something one will achieve right away, it requires some favor, a few lives, gear and ED leveling to get there.

[Inouk]

It very much is possible to be higher, but what would that take?

18 Base
05 Level Ups
04 Tome <- Not everyone has a +4 tome, but everyone can dream of getting one
03 Wisdom Enhancements
08 Enchantment
03 Insight <- +2 More common +3 can be found on rare items or sets
01 Exceptional
06 Destiny <- This is spending 12 of the 24 Points in a destiny for wisdom leaving 12 points for other stuff
==
48

03 Twists <- Spending all Twists on Wisdom from 3 other destinies (4 destinies have Wisdom as an option)*
02 Yogolth <- Yogoloth Favor in Amrath
03 House D <- Collectable turn ins last 2 Minutes
02 Store bought Ability Potions (Cost of TP)
02 Bard Ability Song - Available from an Epic Bard
==
60

*Of course you loose the Magister Twist if you use all twists on Wisdom (1 Wisdom or +3 DC your Choice)


So I agree absolutely possible that the person was a 57 DC. But also not likely something one will achieve right away, it requires some favor, a few lives, gear and ED leveling to get there.

18 Base
06 Level Ups
04 Tome
04 Wisdom Enhancements (including 1 from human)
08 Enchantment
03 Insight <- not super common, but a lot of people have it, and anyone with 57 DC almost certainly does
01 Exceptional
06 Destiny <- Not super familiar with druids, but I don't recall them having a great ED, so spending on this should be okay
01 Litany <- rare, but again, if he has 57 DC is likely
02 Ship buff
01 Twist <- leaves you 2 more
02 Yugo pot
02 Bard Ability Song
==
58 <- no store pots, no cookies, no unsustainable short term buffs, no gimping your character by using all twists

This is achievable and sustainable, though it involves high end gear. I did not include +5 tome, 2 more twist, store pots, house D, 2 epic feats, etc that could push it well over 60, which I would agree is not sustainable or for most people achievable.
56 is achievable by either not using yugo, not having bard, or buying only 4 wis in tree. You get the idea.

[Inouk]

18 Base
06 Level Ups
04 Tome
04 Wisdom Enhancements (including 1 from human)
08 Enchantment
03 Insight <- not super common, but a lot of people have it, and anyone with 57 DC almost certainly does
01 Exceptional
06 Destiny <- Not super familiar with druids, but I don't recall them having a great ED, so spending on this should be okay
01 Litany <- rare, but again, if he has 57 DC is likely
02 Ship buff
01 Twist <- leaves you 2 more
02 Yugo pot
02 Bard Ability Song
==
58 <- no store pots, no cookies, no unsustainable short term buffs, no gimping your character by using all twists

This is achievable and sustainable, though it involves high end gear. I did not include +5 tome, 2 more twist, store pots, house D, 2 epic feats, etc that could push it well over 60, which I would agree is not sustainable or for most people achievable.
56 is achievable by either not using yugo, not having bard, or buying only 4 wis in tree. You get the idea.

I agree though that once you break 50 you start making small, but increasingly larger sacrifices as it goes up.

[Enoach]

I agree though that once you break 50 you start making small, but increasingly larger sacrifices as it goes up.

Again I was not disagreeing with it being possible to get a 56+ Wisdom.

Thank you by the way for pointing out the following:

There is 6 not 5 Level up points.
Ship Buffs +2 Wisdom
If your Human/Half-Elf you have +1 Wisdom available through Enhancements
Litany of the Dead (Raid Loot) - Use of which will mean Insight +3 has to be in a non-Trinket spot.

I also left off the +5 tome from my numbers, not because it is not possible, but because it is still rather rare for the majority.

So you have pointed out 5 points of Wisdom I left off my list. I hope that the end result will help someone understand options to help raise their wisdom and thus DCs. But I'm still seeing they will need some Past Life Help to also achieve this. 57 DC is currently impressive (to me anyway).

[Inouk]

Again I was not disagreeing with it being possible to get a 56+ Wisdom.

Thank you by the way for pointing out the following:

There is 6 not 5 Level up points.
Ship Buffs +2 Wisdom
If your Human/Half-Elf you have +1 Wisdom available through Enhancements
Litany of the Dead (Raid Loot) - Use of which will mean Insight +3 has to be in a non-Trinket spot.

I also left off the +5 tome from my numbers, not because it is not possible, but because it is still rather rare for the majority.

So you have pointed out 5 points of Wisdom I left off my list. I hope that the end result will help someone understand options to help raise their wisdom and thus DCs. But I'm still seeing they will need some Past Life Help to also achieve this. 57 DC is currently impressive (to me anyway).

No question there, 57 is very impressive. I have very limited past lives myself (gear too for that matter). For a newer (not new, just not a power-gamer or long time vet) player it's hard to accept 6 past lives, +4 tomes, litany, and such as "expected". On a first life toon you should be thrilled to hit 50 IMO. Leaves of the forest is a strong recommendation for a druid, which gets you that 3 wis on a non-trinket slot. Glad I could help with the #s.