Pug groups, they always amaze me in some way!

[fork_aka_spoon]

I have no problem with people rolling for gear for a TR.

I also, though, have no problem with people changing the rules after a roll. Just because you called for a roll doesn't mean you lose 'my loot is my loot' privileges.

For funzies, here are some reasons why I might change my mind after calling for a roll:
1 - I decided I want to loot it after all
2 - I decided my friend could use it after all
3 - Someone offered me 5000TP for it after not winning the roll
4 - The roll winner did not contribute throughout the raid. (I see 0 point in telling them that's why they're disqualified from rolling before hand since they're still going to be mighty PO'd. Better to just hope they don't win and deal with the being skipped rage if they do).
5 - I strongly suspect this person won't use the item. On asking, they either admit such, or are a massive jerk about the polite inquiry.
6 - The roll winner was unnecessarily offensive to me or someone else in the raid.
+ many, many others, including "I'd prefer to give it to someone who can use it now, not at some TR in the indefinite future" (though that's not a problem for me as an individual, others evidently do have that reservation)

Just don't count your chickens before they hatch. While loot is in someone's else name - it's in someone else's name.

Incidentally, I've only ever done reason 4/ reason 5 combo once. But I certainly have 0 regrets about it.

I do feel that leaving any named loot in a chest that someone else could use is a bit slack... my loot is my loot though, so I'd get over it, but it's not particularly cool.

TL;DR. Wouldn't blacklist OP or Litany leaver, would be a bit miffed momentarily at Litany guy but would certainly get over it.

hey, a post that neither agrees nor disagrees, and I like it a lot. the "my loot is my loot" is something I don't think was mentioned yet in this thread, it was my guildys loot and he did with it what he felt was right.

[Saravis]

hey, a post that neither agrees nor disagrees, and I like it a lot. the "my loot is my loot" is something I don't think was mentioned yet in this thread, it was my guildys loot and he did with it what he felt was right.

So you can agree it was within the right of the other individual to leave the litany in the chest?

[fork_aka_spoon]

So you can agree it was within the right of the other individual to leave the litany in the chest?

Well played sir, well played.

[Sunarch_Kunari]

This reminds me of one time when Khorgain was just a little level 25 fighter farming HOX for the Tharrak wraps for his TR.

The party leader told everyone to pass all named items to him. 2 wraps dropped, 1 monk rolled on one and the other monk didn't want one. So I asked for one. The party leader told me that I couldn't roll on one because I wasn't monk. I told him it was on my TR checklist, he said I can only roll on items that I will use this life. Since no one rolled on the Lorrik's Necklace I passed, I asked for it back. I got the same response. I can't have it because I'm not going to use it this life. Apparently the rest of the party agreed with him. What happened next? He looted all the named items no one rolled on, including the Tharrak wraps he wasn't going to use this life as a fighter.

That really made me mad, so I just tr'd into a monk.

EDIT:
My rules for who gets to roll:
1st, the person who looted it gets it if he wants it.
2nd, people who contributed to the group. (e.g. tokens to the person who soloed an eDA)
3rd, the people who can put it to immediate use. (e.g. ML 16 caster sceptre goes to level 17 sorc over a level 15 sorc, definitely level 17 sorc over a level 17 fighter)
4th, the people who can use it this life (that means if the level 17 sorc doesn't want it, it goes to the level 15 sorc)
5th, the people who will use it in their next TR (the 17 fighter TR'ing to a caster? He gets the sceptre if the level 15 sorc doesn't want it)
6th, the people who will use it in a planned TR
7th, anyone else

[Karavek]

It sounds to me more like a case of a player far too used to static grouping sticking their head out of the sand to see times have changed.

Once upon a time TRing was rare, and lengthy in the time involved to complete the process. Nowdays there are countless silent solo completionist who only group up for the odd raids to aquire some rare bit of loot to round out their next life.

To the OP Id say your not exactly in the wrong, but rather stuck in a bygone era. Nowdays TRs tend to preach the have it all done in the first life so subsequent lives are as fast as possible. This means there are countless end life casters in the making who start as barbarians because of what they read here on these forums.

These same barbs and other new first lifer but end life caster in the making players wont even TR into the caster until they have that perfect kit of caster gear.

This I believe is where the crux of your issue lies. And where you need to start considering that TRing is now the accepted end game of DDO, that the only way for one to avoid the frustration of a constantly raising bar is to avoid the idea of there being an end all together.

Trying to label it no plan or newbish lack of forthought only shows negative elitism. New comers can and most hope will read these forums and they would take away from them that a caster will have to go through many lives to be the best, that starting in a life like barbarian just to get it out of the way while being the acceptable newb is wise.

Finally it shows very little in the way of quality to promote any kind of black listing. Even offering to PM the name is against forum rules. One cant encourage such if they actually want to see DDO survive people need to stop with all the attempts to drive others out with high school clique mentality.

[porq]

I have no problem with people rolling for gear for a TR.

I also, though, have no problem with people changing the rules after a roll. Just because you called for a roll doesn't mean you lose 'my loot is my loot' privileges.

For funzies, here are some reasons why I might change my mind after calling for a roll:
1 - I decided I want to loot it after all
2 - I decided my friend could use it after all
3 - Someone offered me 5000TP for it after not winning the roll
4 - The roll winner did not contribute throughout the raid. (I see 0 point in telling them that's why they're disqualified from rolling before hand since they're still going to be mighty PO'd. Better to just hope they don't win and deal with the being skipped rage if they do).
5 - I strongly suspect this person won't use the item. On asking, they either admit such, or are a massive jerk about the polite inquiry.
6 - The roll winner was unnecessarily offensive to me or someone else in the raid.
+ many, many others, including "I'd prefer to give it to someone who can use it now, not at some TR in the indefinite future" (though that's not a problem for me as an individual, others evidently do have that reservation)

Just don't count your chickens before they hatch. While loot is in someone's else name - it's in someone else's name.

Incidentally, I've only ever done reason 4/ reason 5 combo once. But I certainly have 0 regrets about it.

I do feel that leaving any named loot in a chest that someone else could use is a bit slack... my loot is my loot though, so I'd get over it, but it's not particularly cool.

TL;DR. Wouldn't blacklist OP or Litany leaver, would be a bit miffed momentarily at Litany guy but would certainly get over it.

7 - Someone is on your squelch list, and you can't determine if they rolled and won or didn't roll at all. Ignored person isn't getting your loot anyway.

I've been in this situation only once, and there was no resulting drama that I could see. The person that won the roll on my screen got the loot and looted it.


I've seen people use 4, and 4+5 in pug raids before. Usually it is the guy that says he's only running the raid for this one item then spends the entire raid either dead, piking, obviously not listening to text or voice, or otherwise being an obvious burden to the group.

[Gkar]

The party leader told everyone to pass all named items to him.

And that was your first mistake

[ChadB123]

Orien is one of the newer servers. From the beginning the "ya loot is ya loot" mentality hasn't been looked nicely upon. People were giving raid loot to toons who could use them immediately. Now that the server is older, and there is more loot to go around, this isn't as big of an issue. However, most end game guilds still stick to this raid etiquette of passing loot to the most suited classes. Way back in the day when +4 tomes were rare, I lost rolling on a +4 Wis to a pure fighter. Since this was a pug Von, I was expecting it to be passed to him. Luckily most people still had sense back then, and it was passed to me after the group expressed their opinion.

So in the end, this is us being considerate and "ya loot is ya loot" while at times is okay, is mostly being greedy.

[LordPiglet]

Just a usual raiding with the Obsidian Marquis lfm for abbot, all goes smooth as usual, then we come to the loot which was fantastic! Quiver, litany, a seal, and a vile blasphemy which was put for roll by my guildy. 4 casters and a melee (first life at that) rolled on it. The melee won claiming he needs for "tr" which always is a load of sh*t. Anyways, the vile went to the high caster roll, then the same melee had the litany sitting in his name and instead of rolling it off he instead whined over voice about not getting vile, recalled out and dropped group leaving litany to rot in the chest. I'm not going to mention the name, but if you'd like to know it you can so you can avoid them too feel free to send me a tell!

I'm not posting this because I'm displeased, just have 0 respect for people who roll on things they don't need or "ITS FOR TR."

Meow. Also awesome loot, only had 9 people in group!

So, if no constraints were put on the roll, and they won it, then your guildie refused to pass it?

It's your guildie that would be bl'd from running with my guild.

[spectroum]

So, if no constraints were put on the roll, and they won it, then your guildie refused to pass it?

It's your guildie that would be bl'd from running with my guild.

ur right..we still need to remind ppl about common sense and plain logic when it comes to btC loot

/sarcasm off

EDIT:add me too im doing the same thing all the time

[fork_aka_spoon]

ur right..we still need to remind ppl about common sense and plain logic when it comes to btC loot

/sarcasm off

EDIT:add me too im doing the same thing all the time

gorla, were getting b-listed by other guilds/players who aren't even on our server what will we do? will we ever finish another raid again?

this thread really blew up, is fun

[pezuwarrior]

I completely agree with fork, but I did run into this dilemma when I ran raids on pele's non caster lives. How I alleviated this problem was saying before we started the raid, "Hey, my final life is caster, I won't roll on melee gear, but I might on caster gear if I will need it. If this is a problem, I'll drop."

Rolling on items is okay. Greed is not.

[Llewndyn]

4 casters and a melee (first life at that) rolled on it. The melee won claiming he needs for "tr" which always is a load of sh*t.

1. The melee won the roll, the fair thing to do would have been to give the vile blasphemy to the melee. I would have rolled on it on my fighter, as I am going completionist (about to start life 9, all pure classes w00t!) and a myDDO would have shown you an error page, so there's no way to verify that. I still use stuff I found and saved on my first life as a cleric that I got SPECIFICALLY for this life and for other lives. I have yet to run an artificer but have at least 8 rune arms in my TR cache that I bring along on each life. How is wanting something that does not drop all the time for a life you haven't done yet but should already be thinking about by the time you run abbot a "load of sh*t"?

2. If I had won the roll, watched it get passed to a caster, I would have looted everything in my name and taken off, or did the exact same thing the fighter did after squelching the person who passed it and the person who received it and then did not pass to me. I say that because even when something like this has happened to me I will pass to highest roller, even if I really wanted the item. I will also pass stuff that accidentally got put in my name, which happens sometimes too, and I have seen others just loot and take off. Were they well within their right to do what they did? Of course? Did it have to be communicated to me? Absolutely not. Am I obligated to turn the other cheek to supposed d-bagginess? Nope. Still on the melee's side.

I am getting a little tired of the loot threads myself, but in this instance in my OPINION you are in the wrong.

[Llewndyn]

It's not tr hate. It's new-player-with-no-concise-plans-too-tr-but-that-just-want-too-hog-good-items-because-of greed-hate.
Passing it for a tr, that actually has some lives under his belt, or has otherwise proven too know his stuff is fine. But too oft it's an excuse.

How many TRs do you know that started their first lives as TRs? This is quite possibly one of the lamest things I have seen on these forums.

[Stormraiser]

It's not tr hate. It's new-player-with-no-concise-plans-too-tr-but-that-just-want-too-hog-good-items-because-of greed-hate.
Passing it for a tr, that actually has some lives under his belt, or has otherwise proven too know his stuff is fine. But too oft it's an excuse.

Classes that can use the item very well (mana clicky):

Wizard
Sorc
Cleric
Fvs
Bard
Ranger
Paladin
Druid
Artificer

Classes that can use the item for secondary benefits:

Barbarian
Rogue
Fighter
Monk

Classes that can't use the item :

Kobolds

If the character plans to TR, chances 9/13 that he will have a blue bar, (even higher really because of multiclasses) and a 0/13 chance that he can't use the item.

[Jasparion]

How many TRs do you know that started their first lives as TRs? This is quite possibly one of the lamest things I have seen on these forums.

The first toon I ever got passed level 2 is now closing in on the end of life 6. The second one has finished life 2 and is saving up and gearing up for life 3.

[Hutoth]

You can't make someone do something with their loot; they have to do it themselves.

IF you want someone to cooperate with your plans for their loot, you've got to use diplo.

If you fail your diplo check, then don't expect them to cooperate.

[Masadique]

To all the people bashing Fork, keep at it.

To everyone defending *the guy*, this is the second time that he has done this in my raids. Trading loot to a friend is fine, pulling loot for a later life is fine, destroying loot because you're mad is not fine. It's really that simple.

V

[Jasparion]

To all the people bashing Fork, keep at it.

I suspect all people are doing is saying, if you dont set rules for loot rolls before the roll, you shouldnt then introduce a rule after the roll in order to exclude the winner.

I fail to see how there is something wrong with this. You can do whatever you want, but if you do something unfair, expect to be called out on it.

[Masadique]

I suspect all people are doing is saying, if you dont set rules for loot rolls before the roll, you shouldnt then introduce a rule after the roll in order to exclude the winner.

I fail to see how there is something wrong with this. You can do whatever you want, but if you do something unfair, expect to be called out on it.

Then you run with him. I am making my choice to no longer run with a greedy child. My PUG runs are there to let people who can't clear harder content get a shot at gear. Not to help some whiny child get stuff he doesn't need.

V