Fighter being PWNed by magic - advice please

[wayreth602]

OK, so Fran, what you are saying is "Live with the 10% slowness"; don't turn the stance off to get there quicker; instead use Expeditious Retreat to enhance speed? OK ... will do. In fact I never turn off SD.

I have just realised that Fighter Armour Class boost is an insta-effect and causes no pause to activate, so he can click it just as he gets to the nasty place.

*SIGH* - I expect there is a shed-load more to be learned if I could have missed that obvious tactic.

I wouldn't worry about how much there is to learn. Three/Four years into playing the game, my wife and I are still learning new tricks.

Are you on Cannith?

[sirgog]

So much of your saves as a fighter comes from items it isn't funny.

A veteran can have the following:

- Boots of the Innocent (Resistance 5, Striding 15%, ML 11)
- Planar Gird (not to wear but as a clicky, +4 all saves among other effects)
- High level Nightshield clicky (rarer, requires Abbot completion, believed to give +3 stacking at the moment which is a bug, it should not stack)
- (Less likely but still an option) +10 Reflex save on an item from the Madness chain
- +6 Dex item (Wisdom is less important but worth having, Con you want for the HP more than the saves)
- +4 Dex tome (you can't loot even +4 upgrade tomes until running level 23 quests)
- Much rarer, exceptional Reflex save +1/+2 Shroud item with Enervation Guard. This isn't common but can be very potent.

While you work on that, however, don't be afraid to have the rogue 'tank' any caster mob that throws nasty AoE damage spells. Run into a pack of mobs, Intimidate them, and move away (at least 2 Haste radii away) - the melee bruisers will follow you while the casters will stand still and try to attack you from range. The rogue then jumps in behind the casters and whacks them until their aggro transfers from you to the rogue.

Another thing to experiment with is going 1-on-1 with casters and watching for their cast animations. When you see it, quickly break line of sight or facing. Mob spellcasts generally take ~700 milliseconds, enough time to jump over the mob (causing it to get a 'not facing target' error and lose the spell for pretty much every spell except Horrid Wilting, Chain Lightning, Mass Inflict spells and Sunburst), or to break LoS around a corner.

With practice, you will be able to do this moderately well in hectic combats. It is extremely effective against elite Fire Elementals in Amrath content.

[squishwizzy]

While you work on that, however, don't be afraid to have the rogue 'tank' any caster mob that throws nasty AoE damage spells. Run into a pack of mobs, Intimidate them, and move away (at least 2 Haste radii away) - the melee bruisers will follow you while the casters will stand still and try to attack you from range. The rogue then jumps in behind the casters and whacks them until their aggro transfers from you to the rogue.

+1

If the rogue is an assassin, he/she can sneak forward, assassinate one of the casters, then trip/backstab the other keeping them occupied. Even if they are not an assassin, a decent rogue should equip themselves with a weapon like a paralyzer / radience weapon so that they can freeze or blind the casters, and thereby preventing them from doing any reasonable damage. Granted, at lvl 14 these types of weapons are not available. However, as you progress, they will. So, keep that in mind.

A rogue's talents are better geared to handle casters in the back, leaving you to handle the brutes up front.

[aeroplanefly]

I'm rereading the comments below and I'm glad that someone mentioned greater warding armor (and shields!).

I've found them as low as level 12, 14 and 16. They give +5 resistance and SR 25. Sometimes people unload these items at vendors and occasionally you can find them on the AH for under 3k plat (last one I found was 1.5k even). I wouldn't buy them above 10k, and don't forget, these are rare random generated items, so they will bind on equip.

They're not useful to everyone, but to a low willed fighter, it might be very useful. I typically use them on my rogue fighter splashed rangers. Having +5 resistance on your armor will likely free up your cloak slot as well, so you could throw something different on your cloak. Mantle stacks well with this.

The fact that they're dirt cheap even to a new 28 pt build to my mind means that they are a must have. A shield might be a better choice to use since if you are going S&B, it's easy to switch (use a greater warding shield against trash with casters and your better shield against boss fights with no casters).

+1 cheesemilk

[squishwizzy]

Random lootgen that binds on equip.

Wow. Never seen that before.

[CheeseMilk]

Sometimes people unload these items at vendors and occasionally you can find them on the AH for under 3k plat (last one I found was 1.5k even). I wouldn't buy them above 10k, and don't forget, these are rare random generated items, so they will bind on equip.

Yup, just picked up an ML 8 +1 Half Plate of Warding for 3.5k. (Time to TR my tank again!)

Definitely worth checking the AH and the pawn shops as often as possible.

Random lootgen that binds on equip.

Wow. Never seen that before.

Anything that has a "special" enchantment (multiple effects on one prefix or suffix, special effects that are usually only on named loot) will have a teal border and will bind on equip, except in the very rare case in which you get one as an end reward that would be bound to account; these remain BTA after you equip them. You've probably seen them before, you may not have noticed they're BTCoE. Things like Lacerating, Poison, Wariness, and high-level stuff like Divine Light, Sun's Fury, Spell Proofing. There's been a whole whack of 'em over the last few updates.

[AeliusMaximus]

My Question: So what are the tricks and tweaks for a no-Evasion tank to survive magical onslaughts once his ship-buff resistances run out?

Lots of good advice given already .. I'd just like to add that something I do on my "non-casting" toons is to find a low-level item clicky for the "Shield" spell. It protects you from magic missiles which can be quite painful at times. Also, not sure if mentioned already, but if you have the Tangleroot pack, get yourself a pair of Visors of the Fleshrender (end reward for the chain) .. being able to cast deathward at least twice between shrines should get you through most quests (deathward prevents stat dmg and energy drain).

[squishwizzy]

Anything that has a "special" enchantment (multiple effects on one prefix or suffix, special effects that are usually only on named loot) will have a teal border and will bind on equip, except in the very rare case in which you get one as an end reward that would be bound to account; these remain BTA after you equip them. You've probably seen them before, you may not have noticed they're BTCoE. Things like Lacerating, Poison, Wariness, and high-level stuff like Divine Light, Sun's Fury, Spell Proofing. There's been a whole whack of 'em over the last few updates.

Yeah, just checked this (I have a couple of Sun's Fury items that I use on a couple of different toons), and it says BtC. I just never noticed before.

Learn something new every day...

[FranOhmsford]

Also, not sure if mentioned already, but if you have the Tangleroot pack, get yourself a pair of Visors of the Fleshrender (end reward for the chain) .. being able to cast deathward at least twice between shrines should get you through most quests (deathward prevents stat dmg and energy drain).

I keep reading {on these forums and in in-game advice} mention of Visors of the Flesh Render Guards {Tangleroot End-Reward}.
These are NOT guaranteed drops!

I personally like Tangleroot a lot {Selling Fragrant Drowshoods, Small & Med Eberron Shards and Silver Flame Hymnals picked up from one run thru Splinterskull can net over 100k plat with ease}.
BUT I feel it's worth saying that I would NOT recommend Tangleroot on the Strength of ONE item of gear that isn't even guaranteed to drop!

Oh and telling someone to run Splinterskull 6 times {does it even have the 3rd End reward list?} is rather different to telling someone to run Mindsunder for example 6 times!

[psykopeta]

I keep reading {on these forums and in in-game advice} mention of Visors of the Flesh Render Guards {Tangleroot End-Reward}.
These are NOT guaranteed drops!

I personally like Tangleroot a lot {Selling Fragrant Drowshoods, Small & Med Eberron Shards and Silver Flame Hymnals picked up from one run thru Splinterskull can net over 100k plat with ease}.
BUT I feel it's worth saying that I would NOT recommend Tangleroot on the Strength of ONE item of gear that isn't even guaranteed to drop!

Oh and telling someone to run Splinterskull 6 times {does it even have the 3rd End reward list?} is rather different to telling someone to run Mindsunder for example 6 times!

http://ddowiki.com/page/Tangleroot_Gorge

bottom line (from reward list)

NOTE: Named items that can appear on this quest arc's end reward list will have a 100% chance of appearing on every third completion of the story arc.

in fact, the visor use to be most of time, at least i have 3 since i decided i would need it (and that was my first sorc life, actually in 3rd, and no didn't repeat the chain, simply did it at lvl)

and you can solo it w/o trouble once ur past the quest lvl

[FranOhmsford]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Tangleroot_Gorge

bottom line (from reward list)

NOTE: Named items that can appear on this quest arc's end reward list will have a 100% chance of appearing on every third completion of the story arc.

in fact, the visor use to be most of time, at least i have 3 since i decided i would need it (and that was my first sorc life, actually in 3rd, and no didn't repeat the chain, simply did it at lvl)

and you can solo it w/o trouble once ur past the quest lvl

It didn't used to be most of the time at all - You just got lucky!

I've ran over 40 toons through Splinterskull at least once!
I have maybe 6 or 7 Visors {Total!} YET I've picked them up everytime they appeared on the last 35 toons! {I didn't know on the first four or five}

As I said before: It's one thing to run Mindsunder 3 times in a row {once on elite, twice on casual} for an end reward list!
It's quite something else to expect newbies to run 10 {yes TEN} quests for 1 {yes ONE} end reward!

Plus: Wiki's wrong there anyway - There's a lot of named items on these lists and there's still only a chance of them appearing {a much better chance yeah} on the 3rd list.
Go run Mindsunder 3 times and you'll see you most certainly don't get the entire list!

Lastly - Of course it's an easy favour run - However it's still gonna take time {quite a lot more than 3 runs through Mindsunder {my example}!

[Lonnbeimnech]

Plenty of good advise in here as far as what you can do, so I'm going to come at it from another angle.

# I run in a 4-person party: an experienced wizard and artificer, plus my better-half who is a rogue and also a newb

Any one of them would be more suited to kill the casters before you, no offence. As a tank your main str is being able to take on hoards of melees and not go down. but you can't do that while chasing after a wizard that spams lightning bolt, magic missile then backpeddles and heals himself. Let the arti shoot him, let the wizard in your group instakill, let the rogue sneak up and assassinate.

And try to not hit intimidate standing too close to a caster

[squishwizzy]

It didn't used to be most of the time at all - You just got lucky!

I've ran over 40 toons through Splinterskull at least once!
I have maybe 6 or 7 Visors {Total!} YET I've picked them up everytime they appeared on the last 35 toons! {I didn't know on the first four or five}

As I said before: It's one thing to run Mindsunder 3 times in a row {once on elite, twice on casual} for an end reward list!
It's quite something else to expect newbies to run 10 {yes TEN} quests for 1 {yes ONE} end reward!

Plus: Wiki's wrong there anyway - There's a lot of named items on these lists and there's still only a chance of them appearing {a much better chance yeah} on the 3rd list.
Go run Mindsunder 3 times and you'll see you most certainly don't get the entire list!

Lastly - Of course it's an easy favour run - However it's still gonna take time {quite a lot more than 3 runs through Mindsunder {my example}!

Yeah, I'm of the same basic opinion.

Maybe it is just me, but having to run Splinterskill even once is basically enough for me. If I had to run it five times for an item, I'd have to gouge my eyes out with a fork.

[Rockknocker]

I wouldn't worry about how much there is to learn. Three/Four years into playing the game, my wife and I are still learning new tricks.

Are you on Cannith?

No Fran, I play on Argonnessen .... was led there by my son who was the first to play DDO. My wife also plays.

[FranOhmsford]

No Fran, I play on Argonnessen .... was led there by my son who was the first to play DDO. My wife also plays.

Wayreth is NOT me!

As for Argo - I'm hoping {if the transfer goes thru} to have no characters there after this week {joining Orien and G-Land which I've already vacated}.

I have good memories of Argo {and bad} BUT i am getting serious now about consolidating my characters and hoping that by the end of this year my presence will be on just 3 servers {Cannith, Sarlona and Khyber}.

I did find that Argo is a lot more forgiving once you get into the teens {at low levels it was for me by far the most unforgiving server}.

Good luck to you and you're family - I hope you're still playing this game for years to come!

[Matuse]

Boost your HPs. By lvl 14 ideally you should have +6 CON, Toughness, and Greater False Life items and taken a +2 CON tome.

+6 Con is realistic. Should have that.

Toughness is only practical if he has access to Necro IV.

The tome is completely unrealistic for a first first-life character. I didn't see my first +2 tome drop until months after being level 20, and not even the favor tome can be counted on by 14. I'd consider it a miracle of drop fortune if he'd even run across a +1 tome in any attribute at this point.

GFL can be found on shields semi-reliably, but that's about it. Getting a suit of Cavalry Plate when the Cove goes live would be the best option, but it depends on the Cove being up, and being able to farm up a lot of dragonshards on a mid-teens melee.

Boost your Reflex saves. By now you should ideally have +6 DEX item, +5 Resistance item, +4 Morale bonus from Greater Heroism (Planar Gird), +1 luck item, +2 insight (Parrying) item.

I've personally run Xorian Cipher over 100 times, many of those with a second account for extra looting. In those runs, I've looted ONE planar gird. I do not ever consider it a realistic expectation for anyone to have this item.

A +6 dex item is practical. That's something you could have by 14.

+1 Luck is not realistic. In his situation, the only way to get it would be the Voice Of The Master. Good if he has Delera's...not so good if he doesn't. Crystal Cove is coming soon, and the L12 Ring of the Buccaneer comes with this (and dex +5 at tier3), so that could be an option...although really how many mid-teens Cove groups do you see who would want a fighter?

+5 resistance item is a PIPE DREAM. There are a grand total of 4 items that have Resist +5 and an ML of 15 or lower. Boots of the innocent (never seen these drop, ever, out of dozens and dozens of full party runs of Temple of Vol), Circle Of Hatred (ahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha), Kardin's Eye (again, never drops), and Sorrel. Sorrel is an extreme longshot at his level, assuming he has NecroIV at all.

That leaves lootgen, and resistance +5 is just not something you find very often.

Parrying/Insight is a maybe. It's reasonably common on weapons at his level, but not on other gear. Having it on a weapon will severely detract from his damage output.


Much more realistic goals would be False Life, Resist +4. Toughness if you have Necro IV (the Minos Legens is seriously one of the best items in the game). +6 Wis/Con/Dex should be priorities. "Clean" stat items can be found fairly regularly on the auction house, but you will probably have to pay a fair bit for them.

Of course, if you have good levels in Cannith Crafting, then this opens up a lot of possibilities. Even skill levels in the 40s-50s would be able to generate some useful accessories.

[unbongwah]

Toughness is only practical if he has access to Necro IV.

I've pulled random lootgen Toughness cloaks which were ML:11, IIRC.

GFL can be found on shields semi-reliably, but that's about it.

I have pulled random lootgen ML:11 GFL belts.

I've personally run Xorian Cipher over 100 times, many of those with a second account for extra looting. In those runs, I've looted ONE planar gird. I do not ever consider it a realistic expectation for anyone to have this item.

I'm pretty sure I haven't run Xorian nearly that many times and I have at least 1 Planar Gird, but guess I just got lucky. [Save my rants against rare random loot for another thread. ] OTOH, OP has since mentioned he runs with a wizard, so they ought to keep him buffed with Greater Heroism.

+1 Luck is not realistic. In his situation, the only way to get it would be the Voice Of The Master. Good if he has Delera's...not so good if he doesn't.

True enough, but who doesn't own Deleras, though?

That leaves lootgen, and resistance +5 is just not something you find very often.

+5 resist lootgen items are ML:9, IIRC. Or he could look for Greater Stability shields.

Parrying/Insight is a maybe. It's reasonably common on weapons at his level, but not on other gear. Having it on a weapon will severely detract from his damage output.

I could've sworn it came on shields too, but I may be misremembering. But I've definitely pulled bracers w/Parrying on them.

Like I said, I listed what he should ideally have by lvl 14. Since OP didn't list what gear, adv packs, etc. he had, I kept things as generic as possible. Plus I'm amused you think Toughness, GFL, +5 resist, etc. random loot is overly optimistic, but +6 stat items aren't.

[unbongwah]

As for what (relatively) easy-to-acquire named gear I'd be aiming for at levels 14-15:

• Minos Legens - Toughness + Heavy Fort = WIN. Alternatively, Thaarak Bracers provide Toughness and 2% Dodge, freeing helm slot for something else. Still need Heavy Fort somewhere, though.
• Maenya's Fists - base version (+5 STR +10 Intim) drops from F2P quest (Eyes of Stone); Marks needed to upgrade to +6 STR +13 Intim are from P2P chain
• Axe of Famine - 15% Incite, higher base dmg (2d8 vs d10), and Life-Devouring.
• Beholder Plate Armor or Fleshshaper's Brigandine - the former will give you higher AC and PRR with a couple other perks, the latter gives +10% heal amp,-20% neg energy absorption, and Disintegration Guard. Upgrade with either +10 Reflex or Delirium (Displacement guard).
• Sustaining Symbiont - GFL, +1 exceptional CON, +10% exceptional Fortification, and counteracts Madness effects from armor above

Most of this isn't F2P, unfortunately. If you really can't afford access to them and can hold out a couple more levels, there's some decent ML:16 gear from the Web of Chaos quests for a S&B dwarf, namely the Templar gear: Justice, Bastion, Bulwark.

[Matuse]

Plus I'm amused you think Toughness, GFL, +5 resist, etc. random loot is overly optimistic, but +6 stat items aren't.

Clean +6 stat items are common enough to be expected. You could even get a slightly dirty one with a +3 skill mod or something and still be able to wear it at 14.

The other items don't appear very often, or require specific packs to acquire. Yes, it's POSSIBLE to get a +5 Resist item, but in practice you almost never do. Far more common to see a +2 Cha +3 Resist cloak than a +5 Resist Cloak.

+5 Resist is only really reliably found on named items.

[squishwizzy]

+5 resist lootgen items are ML:9, IIRC. Or he could look for Greater Stability shields.

I think that only applies to True Neutral characters.

I could've sworn it (parrying) came on shields too, but I may be misremembering. But I've definitely pulled bracers w/Parrying on them.

It does. I pulled a shield not too long ago that had that attribute on it. I also think you can craft that on a shield as well.