Highest DPS Self Sufficient Melee?

[Ape_Man]

Sure, if you enjoy rebuilding your guy every update to the flavor of the month... That's certainly a solid option.

I'm a stubborn S.O.B. so my wizard is staying a DC caster.

I thought you powergamers wanted more challenge? Instead, you all just TR/LR everytime the game changes into whatever makes the game easy.

We have different toons in out stables and bring out the ones that are most effective for an encounter. Bringing a knife to a gun fight isn't challenging, it's stupid.

Thankfully I know plenty of barbarians.

[Symerith]

I thought you powergamers wanted more challenge? Instead, you all just TR/LR everytime the game changes into whatever makes the game easy.

Powergamers adapt faster and better. They come up with new concepts that many players follow.

I see a lot of "it's too tough to get the DCs to works in EE content" comments, but the truth is, you can make anything work in this game.

So with the power given by Epic destinies such as LD, it seems people are starting to say it doesn't matter at all what class you are going with, because the damage you get with destinies is enough to justify just about any split. That's why we are getting so much "trash talk" and everyone is saying something different.

We have so many choices now given by ED and the fact there's not "one endgame" but many "endgames" since a lot of players will end up running mostly EH content while others stick to EE. When players come here advicing for a toon built for EE, sure it will work but it simply isn't the same. For EE, since you may not reach the right DCs on a divine melee type you may altogether give up DCs on that toon, but it would work extremely well for EH content.

Really, the best way to help players looking for a build advice is for the person to give the following information:


Main focus: EE content
Restrictions: 34pt build
Build idea (healer/melee/CC/support/instakiller): Melee but with healing options
Weapon Type: I like using THF and I have a Carnifex


That's just a basic exemple but with that kind of information, there truly aren't that many builds that fit in.

[Purkilius]

Well I am making a Human 17 druid 2 monk 1 fighter at level 18 currently, the concept is trying to have fun while leveling all ED´s. TWF fire elemental with 2 LitII khopeshes and I am surprised at the dps, self sufficiency and just the fun of playing the build.

[silinteresting]

I wonder what playerbase from forums think about bard/fighter as self sufficient DPS toons.

i have a 2nd life human warchanter, bard 15 fighter 4 druid 1.

all the thf feats, cleave, greater cleave, overwhelming critical,
then have tactic in the form of a good stunning blow,

then on top of this you have all the bard songs, including inspire exellence and fascinate
all the normal bard spells, haste, rage, greater heroism and the huge one displacement.

druid took for rams might and jump.

the other huge one imho is a high umd, used for tenners, fireshield etc etc.

cure critical wih good amp hits for 170+ normal or 300-400 when crit.

i have full epic destinies so most time i run in fury with twists from legendry D.


i must say i built this one to solo or duo with guild m8.now the build explained, at lev 25 with strength around mid 50s and everything else surving
everything up to and including epic hard is easyish to solo (i think thats true with most builds
nowdays with good ed's), also i think knowledge of quest
is more important than build buts that another story.

as you can see this build is very self sufficent fun build to play. is it good dps now thats a good question i would say yes
but others will tell you no its rubbish but hey ho.

my advice at the end of the day is try it. build a bard and see what you can do after all you might enjoy it.

[Ape_Man]

I wonder what playerbase from forums think about bard/fighter as self sufficient DPS toons.

My bard's like this, isn't that geared but does very well even in EE.

The saves suck though, taking the full-monty on every spell is a pain. I think I can solve that problem like anything else in DDO and just throw gear at it.

[slimkj]

Any flavor of the month type DPS builds that have a focus on self sufficiency?

Been a long time since the game was hard enough to, and I cared enough to, run DPS numbers on builds, but from feel alone I really enjoyed capping and ED-filling a Dru17/Mnk3 Wolf melee. Tasty speed too.

The Juggernaut looks pretty fun. You can make use of most of the same mechanics & goals it does with other class split frameworks too.

[maddmatt70]

Powergamers adapt faster and better. They come up with new concepts that many players follow.

I see a lot of "it's too tough to get the DCs to works in EE content" comments, but the truth is, you can make anything work in this game.

So with the power given by Epic destinies such as LD, it seems people are starting to say it doesn't matter at all what class you are going with, because the damage you get with destinies is enough to justify just about any split. That's why we are getting so much "trash talk" and everyone is saying something different.

We have so many choices now given by ED and the fact there's not "one endgame" but many "endgames" since a lot of players will end up running mostly EH content while others stick to EE. When players come here advicing for a toon built for EE, sure it will work but it simply isn't the same. For EE, since you may not reach the right DCs on a divine melee type you may altogether give up DCs on that toon, but it would work extremely well for EH content.

Really, the best way to help players looking for a build advice is for the person to give the following information:


Main focus: EE content
Restrictions: 34pt build
Build idea (healer/melee/CC/support/instakiller): Melee but with healing options
Weapon Type: I like using THF and I have a Carnifex


That's just a basic exemple but with that kind of information, there truly aren't that many builds that fit in.

Top undead melee boss dps is a paladin in hunter of the dead. They are self sufficient with lay on hands and self healing and have excellent saves and solid hit points. Next update the raid boss is undead. I would not recommend LD for top raid boss dps especially in a raid group. Top boss dps is primal avatar or fury of the wild.

Killing boss's quickly in order to alleviate stress on the healers is one reason to make more straightforward basic builds like level 20 barbarian, or fighter, or paladin. Solo/shortman epics is one thing, but raids are something else altogether. Having a pure killer in the stable is still probably necessary at least for those who are active raiders.

[Ape_Man]

Killing boss's quickly in order to alleviate stress on the healers is one reason to make more straightforward basic builds like level 20 barbarian, or fighter, or paladin. Solo/shortman epics is one thing, but raids are something else altogether. Having a pure killer in the stable is still probably necessary at least for those who are active raiders.

This completely hits the nail on the head. +1

[Vissarion]

My bard's like this, isn't that geared but does very well even in EE.

The saves suck though, taking the full-monty on every spell is a pain. I think I can solve that problem like anything else in DDO and just throw gear at it.

Or you can become fabulous and go Half-Elf with Pally dilly.

I myself have an 18/2 Dwarf warchanter that partly mitigates the saves problem through Dwarven spell defense. It ain't a Juggernaut, but it's sufficient.

[Symerith]

Top undead melee boss dps is a paladin in hunter of the dead. They are self sufficient with lay on hands and self healing and have excellent saves and solid hit points. Next update the raid boss is undead. I would not recommend LD for top raid boss dps especially in a raid group. Top boss dps is primal avatar or fury of the wild.

Killing boss's quickly in order to alleviate stress on the healers is one reason to make more straightforward basic builds like level 20 barbarian, or fighter, or paladin. Solo/shortman epics is one thing, but raids are something else altogether. Having a pure killer in the stable is still probably necessary at least for those who are active raiders.

You are fond of paladins, I get that - and for the first time since zeal's nerf they are pretty solid. We agree here.

Top ED for questing is LD for the most part, FotW for raiding. We agree here.

This is the part where I have trouble though.. if builds with lower DPS output than say my AA are called "pure killers", I really ought to think of a better name for my build =P.

You see, as an active raider, I don't get in which raid a basic build is better than a more complex build.
In the two hardest raids in the game (EELOB & EECITW), more complex builds do better - taking my AA or Haek's juggernaut again as examples... both are complex builds, with better defenses, survivability and DPS output than all the 3 basic builds you listed.

[maddmatt70]

You are fond of paladins, I get that - and for the first time since zeal's nerf they are pretty solid. We agree here.

Top ED for questing is LD for the most part, FotW for raiding. We agree here.

This is the part where I have trouble though.. if builds with lower DPS output than say my AA are called "pure killers", I really ought to think of a better name for my build =P.

You see, as an active raider, I don't get in which raid a basic build is better than a more complex build.
In the two hardest raids in the game (EELOB & EECITW), more complex builds do better - taking my AA or Haek's juggernaut again as examples... both are complex builds, with better defenses, survivability and DPS output than all the 3 basic builds you listed.

Those three basic builds have more dps output then this juggernaught garbage. The error that is never computed by any of these suckas is mode swaps. Swapping from ranged to melee to X to etc.. Really that is a big dps hit that none of these people ever acknowledge you combine that with the fact that jugger what ever does medicore dps in all phases and you got a bunch of what have you. I am going to bash the heck out of that build because it only has self healing. Really any build can self heal it is just some builds require more skill then others.

The AA is a little different in that the three basic builds have more dps where the fight is more lengthy basically. I disagree with you regarding ee citw in that 20 fighter 20 barb etc. are better on Lloth. The two optionals probably not because those fights are less long. Now for the raid next update I am anticipating that paladin HOTD could be top dog on the raid boss for melee dps.

[Viisari]

Those three basic builds have more dps output then this juggernaught garbage. The error that is never computed by any of these suckas is mode swaps. Swapping from ranged to melee to X to etc.. Really that is a big dps hit that none of these people ever acknowledge you combine that with the fact that jugger what ever does medicore dps in all phases and you got a bunch of what have you. I am going to bash the heck out of that build because it only has self healing. Really any build can self heal it is just some builds require more skill then others.

The AA is a little different in that the three basic builds have more dps where the fight is more lengthy basically. I disagree with you regarding ee citw in that 20 fighter 20 barb etc. are better on Lloth. The two optionals probably not because those fights are less long. Now for the raid next update I am anticipating that paladin HOTD could be top dog on the raid boss for melee dps.

Do you happen to live in a barrel by any chance? Or any place that has no contact with reality? A lonely island maybe?

[Braegan]

I'd cast my vote for:

- Druid/Monk melee style (was a very fun life, went by really fast)

- Melee Bard (songs, haste, rage, displace, self heals...really gives you an all around self suffcient character)

- Half-Elf (Cleric Dille for leveling, swap to Rog when UMD enough for heals and/or SF favor) Fighter or Barb. Kill things before you die, heal up after fight.

[Lurzifer]

Those three basic builds have more dps output then this juggernaught garbage. The error that is never computed by any of these suckas is mode swaps. Swapping from ranged to melee to X to etc.. Really that is a big dps hit that none of these people ever acknowledge you combine that with the fact that jugger what ever does medicore dps in all phases and you got a bunch of what have you. I am going to bash the heck out of that build because it only has self healing. Really any build can self heal it is just some builds require more skill then others.

The AA is a little different in that the three basic builds have more dps where the fight is more lengthy basically. I disagree with you regarding ee citw in that 20 fighter 20 barb etc. are better on Lloth. The two optionals probably not because those fights are less long. Now for the raid next update I am anticipating that paladin HOTD could be top dog on the raid boss for melee dps.

I smell someone who has no clue what hes talking about, clearly.

[Lurzifer]

Well i didnt really come here in the first place but, well maddmatt70, how about u show some of your statements with screenshots or videos?

Set a Bar anywhere DPS/survivabilty... heck even highest crit if u want. I beat it with my Juggernaut "Garbage" any day of the week.
And u know why?
Because i have played every class in high level, i know the weak strong sides from actually playing them with endgear in highest content. I dont make up my statements on the forum and have enough to back em up.

L2p maddmatt70 and have more fun in the game instead of spreading false advice on forum.

[Viisari]

Those three basic builds have more dps output then this juggernaught garbage.

Oh yeah and personally I don't consider builds that can solo to the end boss of EE dungeons while rest of the group is doing optionals to be "garbage".

But I guess your standards are a bit higher than mine then.

[cdr]

Oh yeah and personally I don't consider builds that can solo to the end boss of EE dungeons while rest of the group is doing optionals to be "garbage".

But I guess your standards are a bit higher than mine then.

Don't mind maddmatt70, his hobby is to come into threads and dump all over any build he didn't make himself. He wouldn't know an EE build if one cleaved him upside the head. He's Snootch lite.

[scoobmx]

You see, as an active raider, I don't get in which raid a basic build is better than a more complex build.
In the two hardest raids in the game (EELOB & EECITW), more complex builds do better - taking my AA or Haek's juggernaut again as examples... both are complex builds, with better defenses, survivability and DPS output than all the 3 basic builds you listed.

IMO either you underestimate the damage output of pure/simple builds, or there is a fundamental flaw in the game. If a multiclassed build has better DPS, better survivability, and better utility than a pure build (say, pure barb in this case, but also applies to maybe pure ranger), then why would anyone ever make a pure build? Multiclassing is supposed to have both gains and losses in a balanced game. So in the case that something is severely, fundamentally wrong with the game, my suggestion would be to improve the contribution of capstones, or more heavily backload the enhancements.

[WruntJunior]

IMO either you underestimate the damage output of pure/simple builds, or there is a fundamental flaw in the game. If a multiclassed build has better DPS, better survivability, and better utility than a pure build (say, pure barb in this case, but also applies to maybe pure ranger), then why would anyone ever make a pure build? Multiclassing is supposed to have both gains and losses in a balanced game. So in the case that something is severely, fundamentally wrong with the game, my suggestion would be to improve the contribution of capstones, or more heavily backload the enhancements.

Pure builds in D&D 3.X have NEVER been the strongest - why is it so surprising that an MMO based on it (even as far-removed as DDO may be now) has mutli-class builds (taking advantage of the best few points in a few different classes) still on top?

Pure builds aren't necessarily weak, but multiclass will always have the potential to be stronger.

[voodoogroves]

One of the trade-offs is the amount of focus vs. simplicity.

Pure builds *work*. You can screw up your feats, but if you go Barb 20 and take reasonable feats with reasonable stats, it will work predictably well.

Don't forget half the cost in a multiclass is the opportunity cost of the decision making and planning. If you use one someone else planned, they did that "work" for you. You still have to level it. It may still have weak spots as it levels in trying to achieve what you want it to achieve, etc.