Highest DPS Self Sufficient Melee?

[Bunker]

Half-Elf (rogue dilly)

6 monk (dark)

and then 14 of any mix of (figher/ranger/pally/wizard/arti)

handwraps & shortswords

[Blank_Zero]

I guess I should of qualified this much better..

Dont factor in Destinies. I can swap to whatever destiny makes the most sense end game. I'm more concerned about The leveling process.

As for "Self Sufficient". Pretty much anyone can be self sufficient up to level 10 or so with Pots. I'm looking for Solid self healing for levels 11-20.

Dont assume Silver Flame potions either. again. Anyone can be Self Sufficient with those if need be.

So I'm look at builds that can hit high UMD in the l11+ range, paliadin options, or Melee Divines(Even though I have a couple of those already, would prefer different), or maybe even a WF Arcane melee?

Some sort of 18Barb/2 Rogue for UMD?

PaleMaster Monk?

Straight Paladin?

Again, Smrti.

Basic Resists, UMD (good UMD too), excellent TWF DPS.

Or, Warcrye.

Same, but Bard and THF.

[Bacab]

When soloing Masters Blitz does so much damage I'm not sure your class even matters. I think a Wizard would be fine. And it's a hell of a lot easier building a melee-divine than it is to pursue DC-marks that are all but impossible to hit.

I agree 100% with this statement in regards to EE.

My battle cleric and Clonks heal with burst and stuff. But even with a high starting WIS and all level ups (my Clonk)...I really struggle with DCs (and I totally neglect Spell Pen).

[voxson5]

what about ye olde battlemage?

Had a very easy run to cap last life on one & went 16w/2f/2m
Cleave to victory, recon & extended tensors/hage/displacement

Saves were a little low but didnt stop the rampage through places like elite monestary

[Ape_Man]

I agree 100% with this statement in regards to EE.

My battle cleric and Clonks heal with burst and stuff. But even with a high starting WIS and all level ups (my Clonk)...I really struggle with DCs (and I totally neglect Spell Pen).

/Off topic rant . . .

Turbine is "pricing" DCs for new EE content to the realm of completely ridiculous. It's simply MUCH easier to not bother and build your toons/groups around different tactics.

I've complained repeatedly about having a PM with maxed DCs not being what I consider to be effective in the High Road EEs. Of course we get the fanbois replying that "nothing's wrong" with the current saves and all that garbage and it's just that, fanboi garbage.

So a few days ago as a bit of a joke we took my friends' 100% hjeabot FvS, my Horc ESoS bard just for haste/rage songs, and 4 barbarians in EE Detour. It was BY FAR THE SMOOTHEST RUN I've ever done of that quest. No worry about Crowd Control, DCs not landing, none of that matters when you have 5 ESoS cleaving like a fleet of lawn-mowers. The bard intentionally did no crowd control, no fascinate, etc . . .

It was a stupid group using little tactics or thinking, just pure brute force. it was retardedly effective.

I this is where Turbine is failing in their quest design of late. When is is the best option something is wrong.

/end off topic rant.

I know several who've TR'd/LR'd their Evokers into Melee divines, it's just easier and more effective in the most difficult content.

[Bacab]

Seriously this is all fact what you said Apeman.

My Clonk has a high 50s Stunning fist and it is pretty reliable.

My CC spells? Oh those hover in the mid 30's.

Granted I am not ED'd out in a DC destiny.

But seriously I have done similar type quests tactics.

Me on my Cleric...and 5 really strong DPS (like Barbs and well-built ROG). Just kill stuff super fast...don't worry about real CC.

That is why I actually enjoy EH more than EE.

EH, "normal" players can use their tactics and they work. In EE...it it actually just easier to just bring a bag-o-hp and a healer and just brute force,

[voodoogroves]

/Off topic rant . . .

Turbine is "pricing" DCs for new EE content to the realm of completely ridiculous. It's simply MUCH easier to not bother and build your toons/groups around different tactics.

I've complained repeatedly about having a PM with maxed DCs not being what I consider to be effective in the High Road EEs. Of course we get the fanbois replying that "nothing's wrong" with the current saves and all that garbage and it's just that, fanboi garbage.

So a few days ago as a bit of a joke we took my friends' 100% hjeabot FvS, my Horc ESoS bard just for haste/rage songs, and 4 barbarians in EE Detour. It was BY FAR THE SMOOTHEST RUN I've ever done of that quest. No worry about Crowd Control, DCs not landing, none of that matters when you have 5 ESoS cleaving like a fleet of lawn-mowers. The bard intentionally did no crowd control, no fascinate, etc . . .

It was a stupid group using little tactics or thinking, just pure brute force. it was retardedly effective.

I this is where Turbine is failing in their quest design of late. When is is the best option something is wrong.

/end off topic rant.

I know several who've TR'd/LR'd their Evokers into Melee divines, it's just easier and more effective in the most difficult content.

One of my worries I expressed a few updates back (and I will continue to do so) is that instead of different abilities and status effects (including instakills) being relevant, classes run the risk of being turned into different flavors of DPS.

Some of this is baked into the game. This is why I wish inside quests there were random differences in the mobs, and a wider range of target saves, etc. Instead of all of them being "high", it would be nice if a first lifer with fairly middling gear (say commendation and challenge gear) could hit the DCs on a weak save if it was their focus area of expertise. I'd love to see mobs randomly spawn w/ elemental resists and absorbs, DR, immunities, etc. to mix things up.

Some of it is baked into the players and our metagame reaction. If it is too difficult (perceived or real) to tackle the problem one way, we may brute force through or go another path. Not everyone, some will still build for flavor, but the larger meta-community will start to favor one way or another as the fast/easy path.

Totally agree with you.

[Ape_Man]

That is why I actually enjoy EH more than EE.

EH, "normal" players can use their tactics and they work. In EE...it it actually just easier to just bring a bag-o-hp and a healer and just brute force,

But in EH if there and arcane in the group at all the rest of the group might not even be there. That's silly in the opposite direction.

[WruntJunior]

But in EH if there and arcane in the group at all the rest of the group might not even be there. That's silly in the opposite direction.

Same could be said if any one melee is blitzing.

[Ape_Man]

Same could be said if any one melee is blitzing.

If there's and arcane in the group he won't be blitzing for long

Blitzing pays off more in EEs. EHs doesn't require it.

[Thrudh]

/Off topic rant . . .

Turbine is "pricing" DCs for new EE content to the realm of completely ridiculous. It's simply MUCH easier to not bother and build your toons/groups around different tactics.

I've complained repeatedly about having a PM with maxed DCs not being what I consider to be effective in the High Road EEs. Of course we get the fanbois replying that "nothing's wrong" with the current saves and all that garbage and it's just that, fanboi garbage.

So a few days ago as a bit of a joke we took my friends' 100% hjeabot FvS, my Horc ESoS bard just for haste/rage songs, and 4 barbarians in EE Detour. It was BY FAR THE SMOOTHEST RUN I've ever done of that quest. No worry about Crowd Control, DCs not landing, none of that matters when you have 5 ESoS cleaving like a fleet of lawn-mowers. The bard intentionally did no crowd control, no fascinate, etc . . .

It was a stupid group using little tactics or thinking, just pure brute force. it was retardedly effective.

I this is where Turbine is failing in their quest design of late. When is is the best option something is wrong.

/end off topic rant.

I know several who've TR'd/LR'd their Evokers into Melee divines, it's just easier and more effective in the most difficult content.

It's one quest. Not every class or tactics are the best for every quest.

I have zero problem with casters not being the greatest in one quest (or even an entire chain) in the game.

And -1 rep for "fanboi garbage". People can disagree with you without being labeled "fanbois".

How are the GH saves on EE? If those are also "impossible" for a completionist, maxed out DC palemaster who knows how to debuff, then maybe we can have a conversation. (I think you do, so I do take your opinion seriously, but many of the people who complain about this stuff just want to to hit the same 3 insta-kill buttons over and over, and have zero idea about tactics - Instead of learning how to debuff, they just want Turbine to make the game easier).

[Thrudh]

EH, "normal" players can use their tactics and they work. In EE...it it actually just easier to just bring a bag-o-hp and a healer and just brute force,

Normal players shouldn't expect EE to be easy.

My Clonk has a high 50s Stunning fist and it is pretty reliable.

So get your DCs into the high 50s, and it will be pretty reliable too (remember to include debuffs)

[Thrudh]

This is why I wish inside quests there were random differences in the mobs, and a wider range of target saves, etc. Instead of all of them being "high", it would be nice if a first lifer with fairly middling gear (say commendation and challenge gear) could hit the DCs on a weak save if it was their focus area of expertise. I'd love to see mobs randomly spawn w/ elemental resists and absorbs, DR, immunities, etc. to mix things up.

Yeah I'd like to see that too... I like quests that have multiple types of monsters... some that are easy for a caster, and some that easier for melee.

[Thrudh]

Again, Smrti.

Basic Resists, UMD (good UMD too), excellent TWF DPS.

How is Smrti's self-healing in the 11-20 range? When is UMD high enough for heal scrolls?

I like my halfling dragonmarks because I can use them in combat (even in a beholder's anti-magic shield).

[Bacab]

Normal players shouldn't expect EE to be easy.



So get your DCs into the high 50s, and it will be pretty reliable too (remember to include debuffs)

Yeah, I agree about most people not being really ready for EE.

I PUG a lot, so EE tends to just be really frustrating rather than fun (for me at least).

About those DCs into the 50s for spells.

I just hate seeing those Stat break downs that look like this...

18+6 level ups+ +5 tome + 3 enhancements + 2 ship buff+ 2 cookie + 2 alchemical + 8 item +3 insightful + 2 store potion + 2 yugo potion + 2 clicky+ 2 if the groundhog sees its shadow...+3 if he doesnt + 2 from being a member of the farmers against astroturf union...

I just hate hitting 6 different potions and clickies to have "sustainable" XXX (INT, CHR, STR)

Remember when we used to make fun of a certain paladin and his 5 rats companions?

Managing all those clickies just is not fun to me.

I kinda wish they got rid of those store potions...yugo pots...cookies etc etc...

I do agree with the Fanboi stuff being a silly statement.

Sometime people just take the game more seriously than others. Nothing wrong with that. I don't "compete" with anyone.

I *do* think this game has sorta gotten further away from skill and drifted more toward managing clickies and stuff.

NickRobinsonchia wrote a great post about this a while back in regards to how Divines are played...and how it was looking they were getting changed into.

I guess a "I only cast and I am allergic to weapons" type cleric should be a better caster than a utility cleric. But it should not be 100% vs never as far as DCs go.

But then again...EE is about the most extreme min/max it seems...unless you have good party tactics (slow pulling...don't over pull and save your abilities for proper times).

That's the thing...
*EE is supposed to be face melting hard
*Sometimes I want to relax and just have fun on auto-pilot
*sometimes I want to have to lean forward in my chair and focus

[Ape_Man]

And -1 rep for "fanboi garbage". People can disagree with you without being labeled "fanbois".

No, they can't.

[Bacab]

How is Smrti's self-healing in the 11-20 range? When is UMD high enough for heal scrolls?

I like my halfling dragonmarks because I can use them in combat (even in a beholder's anti-magic shield).

Oh the Halfling Dragon mark builds are super fun.

An old player I used to play with made a weird type build that was and Dragonmark.

Want to say he was 12RNG (manyshot and tempest 2) 7 Monk (ninja spy and 1000 stars) and 1 ROG for UMD and traps.

Anyway...loved questing with him (back when cap was 20). He could get all the traps...and was hard to kill...last man standing often.

His reasoning for that split...
the 7 M Monk gave him some bonus feats and some healing amp
the 12 ranger gave him TWF feats and Many shot and bow str
1 ROG UMD and traps...

That freed up his normal feats for the meta magics and the dragonmarks.

Anyway...I don't know his whole build...but it was really solid.

[Ape_Man]

So get your DCs into the high 50s, and it will be pretty reliable too (remember to include debuffs)

better idea . . . don't bother and build something easier and more effective.

[Thrudh]

No, they can't.

Heh. (Note I didn't actually give you the -1 rep, but I guess I probably should have)

[Thrudh]

better idea . . . don't bother and build something easier and more effective.

Sure, if you enjoy rebuilding your guy every update to the flavor of the month... That's certainly a solid option.

I thought you powergamers wanted more challenge? Instead, you all just TR/LR everytime the game changes into whatever makes the game easy.