Highest DPS Self Sufficient Melee?

[Impaqt]

I have a Light monk so please exclude that.

Many of old DPS toons are antiquated and for the most part ineffective nowadays. looksing to build a new toon focused on DPS, but I do like my self sufficiency.

Any flavor of the month type DPS builds that have a focus on self sufficiency?

[Cyndrome]

I keep saying that I am going to wait on the enhancement revamp to remake my melee DPS toons. That was supposed to be what 6 months ago.

[WruntJunior]

The Juggernaut (Haek's build, which I've TRed my melee FvS into) works quite well from what I've seen, as does a melee FvS. Pretty much anything that can keep up a Master's Blitz can do some insane damage, though.

With twists, you can make a lot of builds work, but in EE, relying on heal scrolls can be painful.

Definitely not a pure barb or the like, though...the penalties from the silver flame pots you have to drink to keep those alive can be deadly (-9 to saves is a death sentence if it happens often in EE).

Edit: Builds like the Jugg are set to get more powerful with the enhancement pass, as they aren't enhancement-dependent at all. On the other hand, a melee FvS may suffer (and some builds, like the monkcher AA, may suffer horribly).

[Loriac]

The Juggernaut (Haek's build, which I've TRed my melee FvS into) works quite well from what I've seen, as does a melee FvS. Pretty much anything that can keep up a Master's Blitz can do some insane damage, though.

With twists, you can make a lot of builds work, but in EE, relying on heal scrolls can be painful.

Definitely not a pure barb or the like, though...the penalties from the silver flame pots you have to drink to keep those alive can be deadly (-9 to saves is a death sentence if it happens often in EE).

Edit: Builds like the Jugg are set to get more powerful with the enhancement pass, as they aren't enhancement-dependent at all. On the other hand, a melee FvS may suffer (and some builds, like the monkcher AA, may suffer horribly).

How much of the dps is coming from EDs though?

For example, suppose you made a paladin 18/monk 2 with the OC line plus all THF feats (you could even fit in improved shield mastery and dwarven waraxe or bastard sword prof I think on a human for tanking capability), which is possible on a human. If you then put that build into LD, and twisted in endless LoH plus two other damage twists of your choice (or alternatively just sense weakness and endless LoH which require 19 fate points) you'd have a very self sufficient melee who could be in defensive stance (DoS) pretty much all the time for decent PRR and defence, and yet still be using eSoS or any other two-hander of choice for high dps, and with LoH for self sufficiency (plus the paladin blue bar for CSW if needed). You could even switch to sword + board mode in LD, which would ramp up your defence and still retain fairly high DPS with a dwarven waraxe due to the LD innates and tiered abilities. If you did this a lot, you'd be best off with endless LoH, Legendary shield mastery, and one other twist I think instead of sense weakness.

Such a build could be switched over to US at the fatespinner and would be an EE-worthy tank with the right gear I think.

I'm currently pondering between these two options in fact: a juggernaut build vs. a human pal 18/monk2 that can be switched between LD and US depending on what you want to do. Additionally, even in US, you could still twist in Lay waste, Momentum swing and Action boost damage from the LD tree (if/when we get a 12'th ED, you could upgrade that to Action boost haste if I've done my maths right).

The two things you'd lose vs. the juggernaut as far as I can see are trapskills and the arti weapon buffs. As the future is bright and full of cloned juggernauts running around lol, perhaps arti damage buffs can be assumed for classes who don't have them? Meanwhile, the one big downside with the juggernaut imo is that raising PRR to decent levels (80-100) doesn't seem possible, meaning that you'll always be on the squishy side.

Edit: you also lose the manyshot burst on the paladin. This could be the key difference between the two thinking about it, as a master's blitz'd manyshot burst is going to be a lot of damage left on the table for any build that doesn't have it.

[WruntJunior]

How much of the dps is coming from EDs though?

For example, suppose you made a paladin 18/monk 2 with the OC line plus all THF feats (you could even fit in improved shield mastery and dwarven waraxe or bastard sword prof I think on a human for tanking capability), which is possible on a human. If you then put that build into LD, and twisted in endless LoH plus two other damage twists of your choice (or alternatively just sense weakness and endless LoH which require 19 fate points) you'd have a very self sufficient melee who could be in defensive stance (DoS) pretty much all the time for decent PRR and defence, and yet still be using eSoS or any other two-hander of choice for high dps, and with LoH for self sufficiency (plus the paladin blue bar for CSW if needed). You could even switch to sword + board mode in LD, which would ramp up your defence and still retain fairly high DPS with a dwarven waraxe due to the LD innates and tiered abilities. If you did this a lot, you'd be best off with endless LoH, Legendary shield mastery, and one other twist I think instead of sense weakness.

Such a build could be switched over to US at the fatespinner and would be an EE-worthy tank with the right gear I think.

I'm currently pondering between these two options in fact: a juggernaut build vs. a human pal 18/monk2 that can be switched between LD and US depending on what you want to do. Additionally, even in US, you could still twist in Lay waste, Momentum swing and Action boost damage from the LD tree (if/when we get a 12'th ED, you could upgrade that to Action boost haste if I've done my maths right).

The two things you'd lose vs. the juggernaut as far as I can see are trapskills and the arti weapon buffs. As the future is bright and full of cloned juggernauts running around lol, perhaps arti damage buffs can be assumed for classes who don't have them? Meanwhile, the one big downside with the juggernaut imo is that raising PRR to decent levels (80-100) doesn't seem possible, meaning that you'll always be on the squishy side.

Edit: you also lose the manyshot burst on the paladin. This could be the key difference between the two thinking about it, as a master's blitz'd manyshot burst is going to be a lot of damage left on the table for any build that doesn't have it.

The paladin would be a lower-DPS character as just a melee (though the manyshot loss hurts too). Furthermore, it's possible (though difficult) to reach decent levels of PRR on a Juggernaut (my goal is around 40-50, which is ~15% less damage reduction than 100).

Furthermore, as a DPS, you'd very very rarely want to be in US unless you're tanking...and the OP didn't really ask for a tank build. There's a huge DPS loss being in US instead of LD (or FotW in large groups, as the best benefit from LD is hard to maintain in such groups).

I considered the paladin build as well...it didn't come close to the Juggernaut, in my opinion (as it was originally a contender between, and quite on par with, my 18 FvS/2 Fighter build, which I TRed from).

[pie2655]

FvS

[Loriac]

The paladin would be a lower-DPS character as just a melee (though the manyshot loss hurts too).

This is the bit I'm not sure I understand. If you take a paladin spec'd for DM3 say, and assuming a base str of 16 you put all level ups into str, then the overall str you reach is broadly similar to a fighter, and certainly higher than the juggernaut (although you do lose 6 damage on PA from not being WF I guess). In LD you'd have haste boost for either character, so assuming like for like weapons etc the difference between the paladin and the juggernaut is the artificer buffs vs. paladin abilities like smite. And the arti spells are not exclusive, so you could expect them in raids for example.

I'm sure there is something obvious I'm missing here, as everyone says paladins are low dps, but I'm not really seeing what it is they are missing specifically vs. hybrid melees such as the fvs and juggernaut types.

Furthermore, as a DPS, you'd very very rarely want to be in US unless you're tanking...and the OP didn't really ask for a tank build.

I agree, and I'm not suggesting that you'd play this as a tank, it was more a statement that the build has flexibility to do that if you so wanted (you'd still need to e.g. gear up for it, and you may not want that grind). I'd see it as being in LD pretty much all the time (FotW would be incompatible with the DoS stance anyway).

[cdr]

If you want a self-sufficient high-dps melee that's still capable switching in US for tanking EE, you want to look more at a DDD-type build than some paladin abomination. Also, a monk splash is only ever going to reduce DPS and evasion is currently completely unnecessary (but that could change with FoT, who knows).

[Loriac]

If you want a self-sufficient high-dps melee that's still capable switching in US for tanking EE, you want to look more at a DDD-type build than some paladin abomination.

Lol please forget I mentioned tanking, I'm not trying to derail the OP's thread.

The reason a paladin build might fit in this thread is that it can self-heal very well. My question was really more, assuming the right EDs and a DPS oriented set of feats, would the paladin/monk be in contention with hybrid melees.

[cdr]

My question was really more, assuming the right EDs and a DPS oriented set of feats, would the paladin/monk be in contention with hybrid melees.

No, not even close. A paladin (much less splashed paladin) can't compete with a fighter for DPS and a fighter with SF pots is perfectly self-sufficient - much less try to compete with a juggernaut.

[Vellrad]

I wonder what playerbase from forums think about bard/fighter as self sufficient DPS toons.

[Pilgrim1]

I run a rogue with stunning fist (variant on the 18 rogue/2monk not my average rogue build). It had very high DPS and very good survivability with stunning fist and displacement clickies. It's 2 biggest weekeness are a lack of aoe dps and unless you want to drink silver flame pots, it has to jump out of combat to heal. I can kill EE mobs in less then 10 seconds without any boosts running so i would say that the DPS is very high.

[WruntJunior]

I run a rogue with stunning fist (variant on the 18 rogue/2monk not my average rogue build). It had very high DPS and very good survivability with stunning fist and displacement clickies. It's 2 biggest weekeness are a lack of aoe dps and unless you want to drink silver flame pots, it has to jump out of combat to heal. I can kill EE mobs in less then 10 seconds without any boosts running so i would say that the DPS is very high.

That's a build I wanted to say, but I don't have one capped to speak to it myself. Good to know it works like I thought (that is, quite well). >_>

[SetofBs]

I kinda wonder how a melee bard would compare as well, I suspect not very well, but my bard is a cc/healer spellsinger so I have no first hand experience.

My self-sufficient melee is a 13 rogue/6 monk/1 wiz Acrobat with healing marks. I dropped the THF feats for the marks and also have Max, empower and quicken. Yes quicken. I die a lot less now, because the heals come so much faster, so I find it worth it even though I don't think I've ever seen a dragonmark build out there with quicken. When blitzing, its insane fun. Solo'd (no hire) CR30 Sunset Ritual the other day at level 23 with only 1 level 1 twist (dance with flowers) and without Pulverizer (need another point for that). Got 4 stars - only missed doing the ballistas.

The main drawback is when not blitzing its pretty middle of the road DPS. I really need to get over to Fury. You could also go druid instead of wizard for more DPS but I like the extra feat/utility spells, plus I built this toon way before druid was available.

[LOOON375]

I wonder what playerbase from forums think about bard/fighter as self sufficient DPS toons.

I built a first life BardBarian 16 Bard/3 Barb/1 fighter that absolutely rocks. Not top DPS for sure, but is more than capable of dishing out decent DPS and way over the top in regard to self sufficiency.

But I still prefer my pure rouge to all of my DPS toons.

[Blank_Zero]

You could try either Smrti's or Warcrye's build. Both are quite good DPS, one personal, one group, have access to buffed Heal Scrolls, can self buff to an extent, and are a blast to play.

[Bacab]

I love my Battle Cleric. It is kinda sorta based off of Sirgog's Radiant Titan build.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=403943

I started with I think a 15 or 16 STR and beefed up my WIS and CHR a bit.

I also love playing my Dwarven Clonk.

Just go with tactical DCs (for stunning fist).

I liked my Warchanter Bard. He was 15BRD/3ROG/2FTR and could get every trap in game other than the Cabal trap (back when cap was 20).
He is now my Battle Cleric btw.

I have XPed with some Juggernauts at low level. They seems pretty good...then again a Halfling dual-wielding dull spoons can dominate at low levels...
I have XPed with some Juggernauts at epic level. They have been awful and excellent. Just like a Tukaw. Some people can play them...some can't.

To the Paladin suggestion, that would be a very versatile toon...and if it SUCKED you can TR and have the best melee past life to show for it.

If I had more free time, I would strongly consider that PLD build. Not sure I would splash monk (2 feats) or ROG (UMD). IMHO, LoH runs out quickly when you are in trouble...but then again...I am not a very good melee player.

Rules for myself when making a toon...

Will it have a quickened Reconstruct or Heal?
Yes?>>>Build it
No?>>>Do not build it

I bite off more than I can really handle a little too often.

[WruntJunior]

I have XPed with some Juggernauts at epic level. They have been awful and excellent. Just like a Tukaw. Some people can play them...some can't.

Just to that tid-bit...that's true of literally any build. Some builds are just more distinctive so you recall them more easily.

[voodoogroves]

Just to that tid-bit...that's true of literally any build. Some builds are just more distinctive so you recall them more easily.

The "you can solo heroic heroic elite with a ham sandwich if you have guild buffs and a clue" problem is also there. I just spun up a new fun build to level with a buddy of mine and it looks promising on paper, but no real idea how it's going to perform.

Other than make people think I'm more of a gimp than they already do, that is.

[Ape_Man]

Define "Self-Sufficient."

A Ranger/Pally/Barb have more DPS potential but less self-healing. Can you live on a quickened/maximized CSW with a bunch of healing amp and scrolls or do you need a "heal?"