Highest DPS Self Sufficient Melee?

[Impaqt]

I have a Light monk so please exclude that.

Many of old DPS toons are antiquated and for the most part ineffective nowadays. looksing to build a new toon focused on DPS, but I do like my self sufficiency.

Any flavor of the month type DPS builds that have a focus on self sufficiency?

[Cyndrome]

I keep saying that I am going to wait on the enhancement revamp to remake my melee DPS toons. That was supposed to be what 6 months ago.

[WruntJunior]

The Juggernaut (Haek's build, which I've TRed my melee FvS into) works quite well from what I've seen, as does a melee FvS. Pretty much anything that can keep up a Master's Blitz can do some insane damage, though.

With twists, you can make a lot of builds work, but in EE, relying on heal scrolls can be painful.

Definitely not a pure barb or the like, though...the penalties from the silver flame pots you have to drink to keep those alive can be deadly (-9 to saves is a death sentence if it happens often in EE).

Edit: Builds like the Jugg are set to get more powerful with the enhancement pass, as they aren't enhancement-dependent at all. On the other hand, a melee FvS may suffer (and some builds, like the monkcher AA, may suffer horribly).

[Loriac]

The Juggernaut (Haek's build, which I've TRed my melee FvS into) works quite well from what I've seen, as does a melee FvS. Pretty much anything that can keep up a Master's Blitz can do some insane damage, though.

With twists, you can make a lot of builds work, but in EE, relying on heal scrolls can be painful.

Definitely not a pure barb or the like, though...the penalties from the silver flame pots you have to drink to keep those alive can be deadly (-9 to saves is a death sentence if it happens often in EE).

Edit: Builds like the Jugg are set to get more powerful with the enhancement pass, as they aren't enhancement-dependent at all. On the other hand, a melee FvS may suffer (and some builds, like the monkcher AA, may suffer horribly).

How much of the dps is coming from EDs though?

For example, suppose you made a paladin 18/monk 2 with the OC line plus all THF feats (you could even fit in improved shield mastery and dwarven waraxe or bastard sword prof I think on a human for tanking capability), which is possible on a human. If you then put that build into LD, and twisted in endless LoH plus two other damage twists of your choice (or alternatively just sense weakness and endless LoH which require 19 fate points) you'd have a very self sufficient melee who could be in defensive stance (DoS) pretty much all the time for decent PRR and defence, and yet still be using eSoS or any other two-hander of choice for high dps, and with LoH for self sufficiency (plus the paladin blue bar for CSW if needed). You could even switch to sword + board mode in LD, which would ramp up your defence and still retain fairly high DPS with a dwarven waraxe due to the LD innates and tiered abilities. If you did this a lot, you'd be best off with endless LoH, Legendary shield mastery, and one other twist I think instead of sense weakness.

Such a build could be switched over to US at the fatespinner and would be an EE-worthy tank with the right gear I think.

I'm currently pondering between these two options in fact: a juggernaut build vs. a human pal 18/monk2 that can be switched between LD and US depending on what you want to do. Additionally, even in US, you could still twist in Lay waste, Momentum swing and Action boost damage from the LD tree (if/when we get a 12'th ED, you could upgrade that to Action boost haste if I've done my maths right).

The two things you'd lose vs. the juggernaut as far as I can see are trapskills and the arti weapon buffs. As the future is bright and full of cloned juggernauts running around lol, perhaps arti damage buffs can be assumed for classes who don't have them? Meanwhile, the one big downside with the juggernaut imo is that raising PRR to decent levels (80-100) doesn't seem possible, meaning that you'll always be on the squishy side.

Edit: you also lose the manyshot burst on the paladin. This could be the key difference between the two thinking about it, as a master's blitz'd manyshot burst is going to be a lot of damage left on the table for any build that doesn't have it.

[WruntJunior]

How much of the dps is coming from EDs though?

For example, suppose you made a paladin 18/monk 2 with the OC line plus all THF feats (you could even fit in improved shield mastery and dwarven waraxe or bastard sword prof I think on a human for tanking capability), which is possible on a human. If you then put that build into LD, and twisted in endless LoH plus two other damage twists of your choice (or alternatively just sense weakness and endless LoH which require 19 fate points) you'd have a very self sufficient melee who could be in defensive stance (DoS) pretty much all the time for decent PRR and defence, and yet still be using eSoS or any other two-hander of choice for high dps, and with LoH for self sufficiency (plus the paladin blue bar for CSW if needed). You could even switch to sword + board mode in LD, which would ramp up your defence and still retain fairly high DPS with a dwarven waraxe due to the LD innates and tiered abilities. If you did this a lot, you'd be best off with endless LoH, Legendary shield mastery, and one other twist I think instead of sense weakness.

Such a build could be switched over to US at the fatespinner and would be an EE-worthy tank with the right gear I think.

I'm currently pondering between these two options in fact: a juggernaut build vs. a human pal 18/monk2 that can be switched between LD and US depending on what you want to do. Additionally, even in US, you could still twist in Lay waste, Momentum swing and Action boost damage from the LD tree (if/when we get a 12'th ED, you could upgrade that to Action boost haste if I've done my maths right).

The two things you'd lose vs. the juggernaut as far as I can see are trapskills and the arti weapon buffs. As the future is bright and full of cloned juggernauts running around lol, perhaps arti damage buffs can be assumed for classes who don't have them? Meanwhile, the one big downside with the juggernaut imo is that raising PRR to decent levels (80-100) doesn't seem possible, meaning that you'll always be on the squishy side.

Edit: you also lose the manyshot burst on the paladin. This could be the key difference between the two thinking about it, as a master's blitz'd manyshot burst is going to be a lot of damage left on the table for any build that doesn't have it.

The paladin would be a lower-DPS character as just a melee (though the manyshot loss hurts too). Furthermore, it's possible (though difficult) to reach decent levels of PRR on a Juggernaut (my goal is around 40-50, which is ~15% less damage reduction than 100).

Furthermore, as a DPS, you'd very very rarely want to be in US unless you're tanking...and the OP didn't really ask for a tank build. There's a huge DPS loss being in US instead of LD (or FotW in large groups, as the best benefit from LD is hard to maintain in such groups).

I considered the paladin build as well...it didn't come close to the Juggernaut, in my opinion (as it was originally a contender between, and quite on par with, my 18 FvS/2 Fighter build, which I TRed from).

[Loriac]

The paladin would be a lower-DPS character as just a melee (though the manyshot loss hurts too).

This is the bit I'm not sure I understand. If you take a paladin spec'd for DM3 say, and assuming a base str of 16 you put all level ups into str, then the overall str you reach is broadly similar to a fighter, and certainly higher than the juggernaut (although you do lose 6 damage on PA from not being WF I guess). In LD you'd have haste boost for either character, so assuming like for like weapons etc the difference between the paladin and the juggernaut is the artificer buffs vs. paladin abilities like smite. And the arti spells are not exclusive, so you could expect them in raids for example.

I'm sure there is something obvious I'm missing here, as everyone says paladins are low dps, but I'm not really seeing what it is they are missing specifically vs. hybrid melees such as the fvs and juggernaut types.

Furthermore, as a DPS, you'd very very rarely want to be in US unless you're tanking...and the OP didn't really ask for a tank build.

I agree, and I'm not suggesting that you'd play this as a tank, it was more a statement that the build has flexibility to do that if you so wanted (you'd still need to e.g. gear up for it, and you may not want that grind). I'd see it as being in LD pretty much all the time (FotW would be incompatible with the DoS stance anyway).

[pie2655]

FvS

[cdr]

If you want a self-sufficient high-dps melee that's still capable switching in US for tanking EE, you want to look more at a DDD-type build than some paladin abomination. Also, a monk splash is only ever going to reduce DPS and evasion is currently completely unnecessary (but that could change with FoT, who knows).

[Loriac]

If you want a self-sufficient high-dps melee that's still capable switching in US for tanking EE, you want to look more at a DDD-type build than some paladin abomination.

Lol please forget I mentioned tanking, I'm not trying to derail the OP's thread.

The reason a paladin build might fit in this thread is that it can self-heal very well. My question was really more, assuming the right EDs and a DPS oriented set of feats, would the paladin/monk be in contention with hybrid melees.

[cdr]

My question was really more, assuming the right EDs and a DPS oriented set of feats, would the paladin/monk be in contention with hybrid melees.

No, not even close. A paladin (much less splashed paladin) can't compete with a fighter for DPS and a fighter with SF pots is perfectly self-sufficient - much less try to compete with a juggernaut.

[Loriac]

No, not even close. A paladin (much less splashed paladin) can't compete with a fighter for DPS and a fighter with SF pots is perfectly self-sufficient - much less try to compete with a juggernaut.

Ok, so you're saying a juggernaut is much better dps than a fighter. Why?

I can see that it has survivability (blue bar healing, paladin saves, evasion) but apart from that I'm not seeing what the juggernaut class mix has that the fighter doesn't. Apart from arti buffs.

Again, I'm not trying to say you're wrong, as I lack experience with melees. If you could point me at some analysis already done perhaps on paladins and fighters (and other melee dps) that would be very useful as at the moment I'm scratching my head not really sure what I'm missing.

[Impaqt]

I guess I should of qualified this much better..

Dont factor in Destinies. I can swap to whatever destiny makes the most sense end game. I'm more concerned about The leveling process.

As for "Self Sufficient". Pretty much anyone can be self sufficient up to level 10 or so with Pots. I'm looking for Solid self healing for levels 11-20.

Dont assume Silver Flame potions either. again. Anyone can be Self Sufficient with those if need be.

So I'm look at builds that can hit high UMD in the l11+ range, paliadin options, or Melee Divines(Even though I have a couple of those already, would prefer different), or maybe even a WF Arcane melee?

Some sort of 18Barb/2 Rogue for UMD?

PaleMaster Monk?

Straight Paladin?

[Lauf]

here's a thought, go pure fighter, halfling with healing dragonmarks.
dps would be near the top of the melee chart, behind a few others that can't self heal, and fitting 3 feats on a fighter build should be no problem either.

if you require more healing than that, then melee casters are really your only option.

[cdr]

Ok, so you're saying a juggernaut is much better dps than a fighter. Why?

I can see that it has survivability (blue bar healing, paladin saves, evasion) but apart from that I'm not seeing what the juggernaut class mix has that the fighter doesn't. Apart from arti buffs.

Manyshot.

[boredman]

Dont forget druid meele splashes like http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=384488 or http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=390133 or http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=393251 they have a good combination of self heal, attack speed, SF and synergy with master blitz from what I've read.

But in the end i think it depends more on your play style because also a skilled 1k hp fighter or a high hp rogue that can self heal from no fail scrolls for 300+ hp and can be displaced almost all the time with decent saves and some prr and dodge can also be very self suficient with high dps without relying too much on master blitz.

[Nubicus]

A bunch my guildies and I have rolled out Jug's, and have had a blast leveling them. While I can only speak for the lower levels so far, it is freaking awesome. Even at lower levels between enhancements and leveled rings of the master artificer makes Repair spells good to go.

If I had known how much fun spaming Cleave and Great Cleave is, I probably would have done Barb sooner on my Completionist project.

Zydanaut keeps itching to break into the ranged aspect of the build though. I can already hear him itching to shout "SHOOT ALL THE THINGS!"

[Bunker]

Half-Elf (rogue dilly)

6 monk (dark)

and then 14 of any mix of (figher/ranger/pally/wizard/arti)

handwraps & shortswords

[Purkilius]

Well I am making a Human 17 druid 2 monk 1 fighter at level 18 currently, the concept is trying to have fun while leveling all ED´s. TWF fire elemental with 2 LitII khopeshes and I am surprised at the dps, self sufficiency and just the fun of playing the build.

[Vellrad]

I wonder what playerbase from forums think about bard/fighter as self sufficient DPS toons.

[LOOON375]

I wonder what playerbase from forums think about bard/fighter as self sufficient DPS toons.

I built a first life BardBarian 16 Bard/3 Barb/1 fighter that absolutely rocks. Not top DPS for sure, but is more than capable of dishing out decent DPS and way over the top in regard to self sufficiency.

But I still prefer my pure rouge to all of my DPS toons.