Highest threat generation with handwraps?

[DarkSable]

Hey there guys...

I've been having a build kicking around in my head; a permutation of my regeneration-based NovaSoul. I realized that with the incredible amount of healing power one can get from an epic destiny, there's no need to be a full favored soul. Since I tank/heal in a static group, I was looking at other options.

So what is the highest multiclass way to get threat with handwraps?

Would it be pure monk? Monk 3 / fighter 17?

I'd like at least 3 levels of monk, with the highest threat gen possible - I won't be able to gain any from ED's except through twists.

[Kinerd]

Ideally you would have 18 in fighter or paladin for the third tier defender stance. If you're going to be stuck with the tier 2 stance anyway, you might consider going 6 monk for Ninja Spy's Shadow Fade, but it sounds like the reason you want 3 monk in the first place is for Fists of Light, so that's probably not compelling. You would also get Earth 2, whose Insight hate should stack with SD's Competence hate, then you could go up to 7 for more heal amp or 2 paladin for better saves.

[DarkSable]

Ideally you would have 18 in fighter or paladin for the third tier defender stance. If you're going to be stuck with the tier 2 stance anyway, you might consider going 6 monk for Ninja Spy's Shadow Fade, but it sounds like the reason you want 3 monk in the first place is for Fists of Light, so that's probably not compelling. You would also get Earth 2, whose Insight hate should stack with SD's Competence hate, then you could go up to 7 for more heal amp or 2 paladin for better saves.

Yeah, that's kind of what I've been figuring out - there's no pretty way of doing what I want to do. I'm thinking pally 18 / monk 2 / Exalted Angel 5 for when not raid tanking.

[voxson5]

Does SD/DoS stance hate work without a shield?

The Emerald 2.0 is pretty good for hate (12m/6p/2f)
Pally for the hate clicky

Other options would be 3 or higher druid for the roar spell (+50% hate for duration)

And race- both WF and HOrc get racial hate amp

[DarkSable]

Does SD/DoS stance hate work without a shield?

The Emerald 2.0 is pretty good for hate (12m/6p/2f)
Pally for the hate clicky

Other options would be 3 or higher druid for the roar spell (+50% hate for duration)

And race- both WF and HOrc get racial hate amp

I'm fairly sure that it doesn't work without a shield, no. I was considering going with 6m/12p/2f though, using handwraps on everything but bosses, and switching to bosses with a shield, light armor, 25% incorp... Any ideas if I'd be able to generate enough threat with a Chimera's Fang that way, though?

[voxson5]

Not sure it's all that of a good idea to change your play style that much for boss fights.

Unless using EDs, you would have to shadow fade, then put on armour... Weapons etc. monk incorp. becomes only really useful for a short time as you won't generate ki nor be centred to activate it again.

To make the most of the fang you need human dragon marks, this means no racial hate.

Someone else needs to chime in here, I don't build for epics so I have very limited knowledge here. But, it would work - just may not be optimal

[DarkSable]

Not sure it's all that of a good idea to change your play style that much for boss fights.

Unless using EDs, you would have to shadow fade, then put on armour... Weapons etc. monk incorp. becomes only really useful for a short time as you won't generate ki nor be centred to activate it again.

To make the most of the fang you need human dragon marks, this means no racial hate.

Someone else needs to chime in here, I don't build for epics so I have very limited knowledge here. But, it would work - just may not be optimal

Hmm, didn't think about the fact that shadow fade wasn't just a clickie. 2 monk / 18 pally it is, then.

[rimble]

Would it be pure monk? Monk 3 / fighter 17?

I'd like at least 3 levels of monk, with the highest threat gen possible - I won't be able to gain any from ED's except through twists.

What's wrong with Earth IV threat gen? SD and DoS require shields, but you could still consider 6 Paladin for Divine Righteousness.

[voxson5]

Indeed, just with enhancements:

+25% Horc/WF
+100% divine r. Clicky (pally 6+)
+40% earth 2 (monk 6+)

Could go 7m for extra healing amp, 6 pally for DoS and 7d for fatal harrier & vigors etc
+50% roar



That said you seem pretty set on pally, so why not just go efang human DoS pally & make it easy?

[DarkSable]

Indeed, just with enhancements:

+25% Horc/WF
+100% divine r. Clicky (pally 6+)
+40% earth 2 (monk 6+)

Could go 7m for extra healing amp, 6 pally for DoS and 7d for fatal harrier & vigors etc
+50% roar



That said you seem pretty set on pally, so why not just go efang human DoS pally & make it easy?

Not so much set on pally, but they're the only tanks with a semblance of a blue bar, and I intend to stack healing amp with renewal - and there's some decent synergy there.

[MeatSheild]

I'm not sure what your hate goal is but I have no issues holding anything when I tank with my human Emerald 2.0 (12 monk earth/ 6 pali DoS/ 2 fighter)
I get the 25% hate from stance (you would get an additional 25% with shield but I use wraps)
http://ddowiki.com/page/Defender_of_...s_enhancements
100% from Paladin Divine Righteousness (It's a clickie but with endless turning they come back)
40% from earth stance
and as I'm normally in stand against the tide 20% more (that can stack up to 4 times)
And for giggles you could toss in intolerant blow for a huge boost for a short term (I like to use both these clickies when my ToD is ready)(also a clickie that can be regened)
Math wise... 4200% (1.25x200x1.4x1.2x10)? for the first 12 seconds of beating on something and if you can toss in a ToD on that you have zero issues holding anything using zero gear slots to do so.

I also like the human and monk heal amp stacking and with pali past lives very little heal amp gear goes very far (to the point that with light the dark, endless lay on hands, and some ham I can keep myself up for harry on norm sometimes hard though the 110+ ac, 25% incorp, 66(?) PPR and 25% dodge help)

[DarkSable]

I'm not sure what your hate goal is but I have no issues holding anything when I tank with my human Emerald 2.0 (12 monk earth/ 6 pali DoS/ 2 fighter)
I get the 25% hate from stance (you would get an additional 25% with shield but I use wraps)
http://ddowiki.com/page/Defender_of_...s_enhancements
100% from Paladin Divine Righteousness (It's a clickie but with endless turning they come back)
40% from earth stance
and as I'm normally in stand against the tide 20% more (that can stack up to 4 times)
And for giggles you could toss in intolerant blow for a huge boost for a short term (I like to use both these clickies when my ToD is ready)(also a clickie that can be regened)
Math wise... 4200% (1.25x200x1.4x1.2x10)? for the first 12 seconds of beating on something and if you can toss in a ToD on that you have zero issues holding anything using zero gear slots to do so.

I also like the human and monk heal amp stacking and with pali past lives very little heal amp gear goes very far (to the point that with light the dark, endless lay on hands, and some ham I can keep myself up for harry on norm sometimes hard though the 110+ ac, 25% incorp, 66(?) PPR and 25% dodge help)

See, the trouble is that's coming mostly from Unyielding Sentinel. What I'm trying to find is a tank that's not ED-bound, as I need the Exalted Angel ED to heal with - I run in a static group of three, and while my favored soul made a fine tank / healer during the leveling process, he can't keep up with the dps spam that epic gives dps characters.9

[voodoogroves]

An Infused Chaosrobe with Obsession?

[Dieterstrife]

There is hate gen from the defender stances without using a shield. 25%, 50%, 75% at each tier, then another 25%, 50%, 75% with a shield on. If you wanted the most hate gen with at least 3 monk you would want at least 6 monk and 6 pally. Friend of mine used to run a 12 paladin 6 monk 2 fighter tank build before u14, and she was pretty **** decent at holding aggro.

Hell, doing a redesign of the old Solar Phoenix, just go 15 pally 3 monk 2 fighter Defender build. 2 fighter could be given up for any number of other things, rogue included.

And you can't combine Druid and Paladin, druids must be neutral.

[DarkSable]

There is hate gen from the defender stances without using a shield. 25%, 50%, 75% at each tier, then another 25%, 50%, 75% with a shield on. If you wanted the most hate gen with at least 3 monk you would want at least 6 monk and 6 pally. Friend of mine used to run a 12 paladin 6 monk 2 fighter tank build before u14, and she was pretty **** decent at holding aggro.

Hell, doing a redesign of the old Solar Phoenix, just go 15 pally 3 monk 2 fighter Defender build. 2 fighter could be given up for any number of other things, rogue included.

And you can't combine Druid and Paladin, druids must be neutral.

I was looking at it, and it seems to me, after playing around with a lot of builds, that my best bet is a 14 fvd soul / 6 pally / 2 monk, with light armor and a shield. I'll hold aggro with spells - mostly the SLAs from EA, and I'll have divine punishment for red names as well as an emergency heal button.