(rant) So, giving chests after completed quest is greed...

[zwiebelring]

The OP did nothing wrong. People joining got free loot, all he wanted was the bauble. He did all the work getting there. And some sanctimonious a** came along and decided in an instant that the OP was greedy.

What's worse is that you found it appropriate to take the side of the sanctimonious a** beccause, well, it is a lot easier to criticize the OP for opening up the can of worms in the first place. If we listened to people like you more often, no one would put up an LFM at all because SOMEONE might take offense to it. And yeah, there is someone idiotic enough top take offense to LFMs with no restrictions.

Don't act as if caps is not usually interpeted as an aggressive and annoying way to communicate. What do many people do when others use caps? Right, they squelch them. You can read that right here on the forum.

The OP has a point in unwarranted critique. However, the LFM I can see in the OP is probably his and, according to my interpretation, rude in wording and expression.

I pointed out that these LFMs attract conflicts. And I honestly give a tiny rats ass about your 'analogy' with that officer.

He can write whatever he wants in his LFMs. However, he then has to face all kind of perception, misinterpretation and consequences. Finally, he has to deal with it. Right now he is ranting and all I say is, that this is no surprise, because his LFM is provoking. And unfortunately, some people feel entitled to respond ingame, even if not involved.

The OP sees a problem in doing work and unthankful people. I see the problem at the very start in the LFM itself. It does not avoid conflict, it enforces it. Since this is a forum, I shared my opinion. YOU DON'T LIKE THEN DON'T READ ;PP.

[THAC0]

Have you considered Multiboxing other accounts and bringing those into the quest to avoid such sillyness?

Just a thought. Works great for me.

T.

I'm warning you, I'm angry, and its my rant here.

I was farming weapons shipment to get bauble, then I'm usually putting LFM after it was done, and pop chests with whoever joined in 5 minutes.

People gets money, arrowheads, boots mats and vendor trash and I got better chance to pull item.
But today, it turns out I'm an evil person because of that.

Few minutes later after I looted and recalled the guy was sending me some tells. I don't know how much, because i squelched him after 1st one.

I really don't know what to say.
I'm not forcing anyone to join, I'm not forbiding anyone to complete quest on their own, and farming their baubles. Everyone who joined was usually happy about getting chests without putting much effort into doing something, they seemed to be sad that they can't pass me bauble I'm after.

I don't know what caused this noob's behaviour.
Is it trend to want rewards handed to some players with 0 contribution, is just trolling, or maybe wanting something in return for loot is indeed greed? I doubt it, but the world seem to be changing too fast for me to catch up.

rant off

I'm going to farm this quest until I get that item. I just don't know should I give out chests to people.

[k0211312d]

I'm warning you, I'm angry, and its my rant here.

I was farming weapons shipment to get bauble, then I'm usually putting LFM after it was done, and pop chests with whoever joined in 5 minutes.

People gets money, arrowheads, boots mats and vendor trash and I got better chance to pull item.
But today, it turns out I'm an evil person because of that.

Few minutes later after I looted and recalled the guy was sending me some tells. I don't know how much, because i squelched him after 1st one.

I really don't know what to say.
I'm not forcing anyone to join, I'm not forbiding anyone to complete quest on their own, and farming their baubles. Everyone who joined was usually happy about getting chests without putting much effort into doing something, they seemed to be sad that they can't pass me bauble I'm after.

I don't know what caused this noob's behaviour.
Is it trend to want rewards handed to some players with 0 contribution, is just trolling, or maybe wanting something in return for loot is indeed greed? I doubt it, but the world seem to be changing too fast for me to catch up.

rant off

I'm going to farm this quest until I get that item. I just don't know should I give out chests to people.

So, the point is... squelch turbokrasnal? what a brazenface.

[cdbd3rd]

The wording of the LFM could be better, as mentioned earlier.


Plus, when you replied with the "____ off", you gave the other guy enough ammo to report you and cause ya more grief. When they hit you with the "lame", shoulda just replied with "Okay. Welcome to my *plonk* list. Good day." Then /ignore them.


I support what you're doing OP, but it could use a little finesse. GL.

[patang01]

I would personally never join a LFM like that, but I would never make a rude point about it either. It's true that the OP did all the work and offer nothing but a free chest. The only stipulation is that whomever join gives him the bauble. Fair enough; stipulations like that usually turns me off to the proposition but I would never boil over that I feel like I have to say anything about it. The all cap however is itching for conflict. I think you would find people more receptive without it, but I also have a feeling that the person who sent you a tell would have responded regardless how pretty sweet you'd phrase it. Good luck on your Bauble hunting.

An alternative and less demanding option would of course be putting the bauble up for roll in the case you want people to join. Everyone rolls (and you can also stipulate please don't roll if you don't have a blue bar) including the blue bar that pulled it and it's as fair as it comes. But it is of course your rules, your LFM and if people join one can only hope they honor the conditions. I would, but then I'd never join unless I already had one and felt I could help you.

[cpito]

OP, I have to agree that while what you were doing was, in fact, a kindness, you could have chosen to word it better and left the door open further than normal for this type of reaction. If I see one of your posts up while I'm on, I'll be happy to help and reap the rewards!

cop analogy

The problem with your analogy is that while the officer absolutely could have handled it better, you're laying the blame for his inaction on the wrong person. You got results when you went to the station because there you were able to actually complain to the RIGHT person. I had a similar problem with a nearby school zone on a major street. I called the station, politely explained the situation, I was directed to the right person to file a complaint with and within a week there was an officer stationed there. (Turns out it was a big problem that they eventually solved by parking an old cop car across the street from the school).

[MartinusWyllt]

Have you considered your wording in your lfm? When I used to put up lfm's in hopes of pulling a bauble I always phrased them similar to, "Please help me pull a bauble" or "Trying to pull the bauble, any help appreciated."

I've found that lfm's with this type of phrasing attract little to no hostile tells. Now, if I hadn't had a few occasions where that item dropped and was looted by a non blue bar I'd still be doing them. These days I just ask my guildies for help.

That's how I phrase that kind of LFM. No one has gone-off on me about it. (anecdotal, of course, I don't do it often)

[Kalari]

I never understood that mentality either OP but its why when I farm weapons shipment I tend to just let it be known in guild "Free chest" I wish I had it in me to be nice enough to invite the general public to that chest but people aren't as nice about you doing a nice thing as they should be. Its always some dope out there who think your just using others (even though your doing all the work in the **** quest and they are getting free loot) lol its why my ranger still has 4 baubles sitting in her TR cache to

[Hobgoblin]

zandos -

dont be mad.

that guy did you a favor by sending the tell.

if he was a true *word removed* he would have just joined, looted the buable and waved it in your face as he ran away.

just saying

hob

[Enoach]

As one that has solo'd this quest many times on different characters and then put up an LFM for loot assistance I will throw in my 2cp for advice on how to avoid this situation

1. LFM wording - Don't use phrasing that appears to be demanding - Comments like "Yes I'm still looking for my bauble" etc. work better. I've had many Blue bars join me that were willing to pass this item in exchange for a little XP and 3 chests. It is the wording that draws fire.

2. You responded to the tell - Don't acknowledge the person, you also already know not to accept them into your group they even gave you the name of the person to Decline. Best way to avoid an argument is to not participate. Everyone is free to think the way they want. But you are also free to ignore them.

3. Don't get your drawers in a bunch if someone joins and takes the loot you were after, there were 4 others in your group at the time to witness them being a cad. Also keep in mind you have already proven you can do this, and while it sucks to have it happen, you get to try again.

4. Don't dwell on the "I'm doing them a favor" aspect. It's a wash because your asking them to do you a solid.

5. Consider running the quest a few more times even after you pull a bauble - It is a way to show your appreciation to the community for their help

[k0211312d]

As one that has solo'd this quest many times on different characters and then put up an LFM for loot assistance I will throw in my 2cp for advice on how to avoid this situation

1. LFM wording - Don't use phrasing that appears to be demanding - Comments like "Yes I'm still looking for my bauble" etc. work better. I've had many Blue bars join me that were willing to pass this item in exchange for a little XP and 3 chests. It is the wording that draws fire.

2. You responded to the tell - Don't acknowledge the person, you also already know not to accept them into your group they even gave you the name of the person to Decline. Best way to avoid an argument is to not participate. Everyone is free to think the way they want. But you are also free to ignore them.

3. Don't get your drawers in a bunch if someone joins and takes the loot you were after, there were 4 others in your group at the time to witness them being a cad. Also keep in mind you have already proven you can do this, and while it sucks to have it happen, you get to try again.

4. Don't dwell on the "I'm doing them a favor" aspect. It's a wash because your asking them to do you a solid.

5. Consider running the quest a few more times even after you pull a bauble - It is a way to show your appreciation to the community for their help

Influence : The Psychology of Persuasion

[squishwizzy]

Don't act as if caps is not usually interpeted as an aggressive and annoying way to communicate. What do many people do when others use caps? Right, they squelch them. You can read that right here on the forum.

People get squelched for using all caps?

That's idiotic.

Caps can be used to highlight words for emphasis. Heaven forbid if I type something in all caps in party chat because I hit the stupid Caps key instead of Tab. Why, all manner of squelching might occur!

(Rolls eyes)

The OP has a point in unwarranted critique. However, the LFM I can see in the OP is probably his and, according to my interpretation, rude in wording and expression.

You know, if you're going to lecture the rest of us - or even just me, specifically - about all things "rude," you should avoid things like:

I pointed out that these LFMs attract conflicts. And I honestly give a tiny rats ass about your 'analogy' with that officer.

The analogy is sound. Quit enabling and excusing bad behavior.

The LFM comments are limited in size. That doesn't bode well if the reason for inviting someone requires excerpts from Pride and Predjudice to satisfy detractors like you. Again, it is very easy to excuse some obnoxious busy-body and lay equal blame to all sides, or to blame the OP for somehow attracting the behavior. Congratulations for taking the path of least resistance. Maybe one day you'll upset someone, and we can all jump down your throat about how rude and provocative your LFM was.

Wear a helmet, Nancy.

He can write whatever he wants in his LFMs. However, he then has to face all kind of perception, misinterpretation and consequences. Finally, he has to deal with it. Right now he is ranting and all I say is, that this is no surprise, because his LFM is provoking. And unfortunately, some people feel entitled to respond ingame, even if not involved.

Ummm...no. The in game tell system is not a wide-open pipe, and has a specific purpose. The same goes for party chat. It's purpose is to allow people in groups to communicate stuff as it relates to the quest, not to harass people.

The OP sees a problem in doing work and unthankful people. I see the problem at the very start in the LFM itself. It does not avoid conflict, it enforces it. Since this is a forum, I shared my opinion. YOU DON'T LIKE THEN DON'T READ ;PP.

The last statement is perhaps the most moronic of them all.

The forum, unlike the in-game chat stuff, is meant to be read by everyone, and to be commented upon by everyone. If it wasn't, there would be restricted access (as exists in several forum categories). People from other servers can post here, and we can post on sections dedicated to other servers...in fact, all sorts of opinionated chaos can ensue.

In-game tells? Notsomuch. Which is the reason why we have a "squelch" option.

See the difference?

You shared your opinion - which was the wrong one, I might add - and I replied in kind. That's called "open communications." And you obviously didn't like my opinion because now you're all in a huff over it. Well, maybe you should have taken your own advice, AND SHOULDN'T HAVE READ MY PREVIOUS POST. Or, alternatively, you whould have placed your fingers over the sentances that caused you to swoon in reaction to their harsh nature.

It works both ways.

(Given that I've written something in caps, I now expect a flurry of squelches on this thread...)

[patang01]

Caps can be used to highlight words for emphasis.

True, but that's induvidual words, not whole sentences. Whole sentences is regarded as yelling.

[Chette]

I don't really care what the heck loot rules you make for your party, as long as you make them clear before people join, which you did. The dude sending you tells is being a dee bag and I'm pretty sure everybody agrees there.

However, it's probably also worth noting that the value of having 5 people come in and loot the chests and potentially pass you a bauble is far greater for you than it is for the 5 people, as nothing else of any significant value drops there. I wouldn't waste my time running out but I guess poorer characters would. When I farm WS and let looters in I don't require them to pass me anything, but I make it clear that I'll pay well if they pull a bauble and wish to sell it (same goes for any free chests that I farm).

[Jasparion]

What's greedy is putting up a "PASS X OR DON'T JOIN" lfm before you even start the quest. I see way too many of those. Really, you want me to drag your sorry ass through the quest and then have dibs on my loot?

Greedy, but still legit. People dont have to join the run.

That said, they are also then free to ignore the LFM and loot for themselves. However, they probably wont get invited again.

A few years ago I was on my fighter and joined one of these groups and the bauble popped for me, but as soon as I clicked the chest the group leader started screaming about how I HAVE to give it to him, so I looted it left the quest and sold it to junk vender, all the while I was telling him how much I was getting for it. hey you can put up what ever you want but i guarantee you that if I joined and got the Bauble I would keep it and tell you where you can put your little "rule"

So youre admitting to breaking the rule the LFM set, and bragging about it?

hmmm...

I think everyone has the right to put up whatever they want...

And the players have the ability to treat the "rules" however they wish...


However, if you do not honour what you agree to... it will catch up to you.

Exactly.

[mobrien316]

I don't really care what the heck loot rules you make for your party, as long as you make them clear before people join, which you did. The dude sending you tells is being a dee bag and I'm pretty sure everybody agrees there.

However, it's probably also worth noting that the value of having 5 people come in and loot the chests and potentially pass you a bauble is far greater for you than it is for the 5 people, as nothing else of any significant value drops there. I wouldn't waste my time running out but I guess poorer characters would. When I farm WS and let looters in I don't require them to pass me anything, but I make it clear that I'll pay well if they pull a bauble and wish to sell it (same goes for any free chests that I farm).

I don't run out for that one, but I will jump into a Devil Assault when I see an LFM advertising free chests. And whatever particular item the leader is looking for, I will pass it without a second thought. I'm getting free stuff for thirty seconds of my time; anyone who would join a group like that and then loot the item in question is an intentional griefer and they would make it onto my exceedingly short squelch list.

[Nephilia]

Your lfm your rules.
Even more since u've done all the quest solo and u're offering free loot.
If a lfm say something and I join I'm agreeing with the rules the lead has set.
I cannot blame anyone if the rules doesn't apply anymore to me once I've looted.
This is just called hipocrisy imho.
If lfm say something u didn't like your totally in the right to apply not to it, but u can't blame anyone once u've applied (and looted for free).
U want to run "Weapon shipment" with your rule? Open your lfm and do whatever you want.
My party -> my rules.
Your party -> your rules.
(as long as those rules were established before starting or before people joining ofc)
That's pretty simple

[zwiebelring]

People get squelched for using all caps?

That's idiotic.

Caps can be used to highlight words for emphasis. Heaven forbid if I type something in all caps in party chat because I hit the stupid Caps key instead of Tab. Why, all manner of squelching might occur!

(Rolls eyes)



You know, if you're going to lecture the rest of us - or even just me, specifically - about all things "rude," you should avoid things like:



The analogy is sound. Quit enabling and excusing bad behavior.

The LFM comments are limited in size. That doesn't bode well if the reason for inviting someone requires excerpts from Pride and Predjudice to satisfy detractors like you. Again, it is very easy to excuse some obnoxious busy-body and lay equal blame to all sides, or to blame the OP for somehow attracting the behavior. Congratulations for taking the path of least resistance. Maybe one day you'll upset someone, and we can all jump down your throat about how rude and provocative your LFM was.

Wear a helmet, Nancy.




Ummm...no. The in game tell system is not a wide-open pipe, and has a specific purpose. The same goes for party chat. It's purpose is to allow people in groups to communicate stuff as it relates to the quest, not to harass people.



The last statement is perhaps the most moronic of them all.

The forum, unlike the in-game chat stuff, is meant to be read by everyone, and to be commented upon by everyone. If it wasn't, there would be restricted access (as exists in several forum categories). People from other servers can post here, and we can post on sections dedicated to other servers...in fact, all sorts of opinionated chaos can ensue.

In-game tells? Notsomuch. Which is the reason why we have a "squelch" option.

See the difference?

You shared your opinion - which was the wrong one, I might add - and I replied in kind. That's called "open communications." And you obviously didn't like my opinion because now you're all in a huff over it. Well, maybe you should have taken your own advice, AND SHOULDN'T HAVE READ MY PREVIOUS POST. Or, alternatively, you whould have placed your fingers over the sentances that caused you to swoon in reaction to their harsh nature.

It works both ways.

(Given that I've written something in caps, I now expect a flurry of squelches on this thread...)

You are using words like moronic and hide behind 'kind wording'? Likewise you accuse me of having a 'wrong opinion'. Well okay, that disqualified you as a worthy discussion partner. If you really think it is worth a whole page size discussing some whining about LFM wordings and loot drama, then go ahead. I won't and still do not care about you. I say this with a .

[Drekisen]

It's not greedy....it's your LFM...anyone who disagrees with this is a jacka$$ and needs their brain removed becuase the don't know how to use logic anyways.

Even if you put up that LFM and you expected all 5 people to do the whole quest with you it still wouldn't be greedy....you put the comments up front.

What is greedy are people who join with other intent anyways or some moronic ideelist trying to make DDO a better place....now that is greed.....if your going to join a group.....RESPECT THE LFM COMMENT BOX.........otherwise go play WoW yah infants!

When someone makes an LFM unless stated otherwise....it is THEIR GROUP....it is THEIR PARTY......that's how it is....if you want that much democracy go be the leader of your own LFM's.

Here is the true test regarding greed.

OP puts up this LFM....5 people join and 1 joins wanting the Bauble also knowing wisely that more than one may drop and they still have a chance to get one after the LFM leader gets thiers.

Chest is popped and only one Bauble drops but drops in the name of the outsider who joined just to loot and a chance at a Bauble.........if that person takes the Bauble instead of forking it over......THAT IS GREED!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yeah... the nerve of some people.

You offered them free loot...

...out of the goodness of your heart.....


...asking nothing is retu..... err..... NM.