Epic Claw set and more stealth nerfed

[voodoogroves]

Honestly I don't see what all the complaining is about. Claw set has been out for over 2 years and people have gotten plenty use of it. I see a bunch of so called "vets" whining about this. If you are a true vet than you would realize that nothing is ever safe, and everything is subject to change. Turbine does this every update: nerfs, buffs, changes in mechanics. It's nothing new.

Yeah I basically agree with yeah there. DDO is about adapting really from a powergaming standpoint. Casual players would have more of a complaint with this because they are more married to gear and build, but then again even the casual players have an understanding that they will be behind on things so their attitude is more of make the most of it. The nerfs overall have been good only thing I wish is that Turbine was faster with them, but what have yeah.

I'm one of those casual-but-optimizing guys. I don't play as much, raid as much as the actual powergamers, but I try to build for effectiveness.

Yes, I have claw sets. They may have taken me longer to get than others.

I'm ok with changes like this. We already generally stack OTHER Strength items on these characters anyway, since the +6 has been eclipsed as well.

No big. Change happens.

[Grailhawk]

If anything, this change makes things better.

You know why?

With relentless fury, 3% doublestrike, and 20% armor pen, blackscale set is undoubtly the best dps armor set ingame. But it takes away the helm slot in which many are currently using for abishai set, so you'd need to either use a glove slot or a bracer slot if you want to maintain it. This makes it much more difficult to do claw set to begin with, as you are forced to choose between planar focus set (if relic weapon) or claw set, and since they don't stack with each other, what's the problem? If you aren't using a relic weapon, then you have legitly no excuse to complain as you'd have no stacking problem ANYWAYS.

If you are not using Pinion, you'd also run into the problem not having 10 seeker anymore. Guess what, EE u16 gloves have 10 seeker, but you better kiss your claw set goodbye at that point. So really, the only people who really have an excuse to complain are archers.

Now I can see you arguing "but I can just stick with my redscale and keep the stack IF they still stacked". Well...I don't know about you but, I'd take 3% doublestrike OR 20% armor pen over +4 damage anyday, the fact that you are getting both is a no-brainer deal.

Show me a melee item setup that would still be optimal that has both claw set AND relic weapon set (the only real source of stacking issue with this change), do it.

LOL you are doing exactly what the developers want you now see added value to there **** loot design. It just took a nerf to other far superior loot.

[Dolphious]

You should. This invalidate people's grind (I'm not going to call it "work"). This shines a light on how any time spent in a video game is time wasted.

If you had fun, the time wasn't wasted. If it wasn't fun then why the F*** did you do it?

This adds to the character building and makes things interesting. Making a powerful character in DDO has always been finding a way to put 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag.

Taking away from this makes the game less interesting.

Well what's "interesting" is subjective, and our preferences may vary, but to me it's about options and choices. Stacking bonuses tend to reduce real choices by making clear best set ups. The game is more interesting when you can use wildly different gear set ups with pros and cons to each. Stacking bonuses tend to make gear clear "best in slot" reducing options.

Now there's less to do. Not replace claw, but new characters simply won't need to farm for it. So with this nerf they've given us less to do at end-game AND make the one remaining items set of any worth in the Fens pack less valuable.

I love how the same people who complained that everything in CitW is complete trash and how they would never run it are now complaining that the conflux set doesn't stack with everything. You guys were of course wrong about that, but still, it's not like everyone uses a CitW weapon, or will use black dragon armor, so the claw set will still be good for many builds, just not ALL melee builds (OK, it hasn't been the best for all builds for some time, but that's more of a complaint about turbines slowness than poor decision making).

[Ape_Man]

LOL you are doing exactly what the developers want you now see added value to there **** loot design. It just took a nerf to other far superior loot.

Exactly. The new loot is so bad they have to scuttle a standard to make people consider it.

[Ape_Man]

If you had fun, the time wasn't wasted. If it wasn't fun then why the F*** did you do it?

Who has fun running the same quest 50 firggin times? You do it for the delayed gratification of eventually getting the toys that make youre toons better.

The Stockholm Syndrome in this forum is mindboggling.

I love how the same people who complained that everything in CitW is complete trash and how they would never run it are now complaining that the conflux set doesn't stack with everything. You guys were of course wrong about that, but still, it's not like everyone uses a CitW weapon, or will use black dragon armor, so the claw set will still be good for many builds, just not ALL melee builds (OK, it hasn't been the best for all builds for some time, but that's more of a complaint about turbines slowness than poor decision making).

Strawman. The CiTW loot is great for TWFers and I've run the **** out of that rain. Now, it's not so great so will other people continue to do so?

[davyscy]

LOL you are doing exactly what the developers want you now see added value to there **** loot design. It just took a nerf to other far superior loot.

What are you, illiterate?

Everything in my analysis was done under the assumption that they still stacked, and I had proven that item sets not involving both the claw and planar focus sets together (the only stacking issue imo) are not just viable, but superior.


*edit* CITW loot great for TWFers? HA, who TWFs these days? And I do agree that esos is still generally superior than the THF options in CITW, but if you aren't using CITW loot, WHY complain about the non-stacking? There's nothing for you to stack to beign with.

[fco-karatekid]

Careful - direct attacks on each other will only serve to shut this thread down - and it has so much potential.

[Ape_Man]

*edit* CITW loot great for TWFers? HA, who TWFs these days?

Anyone who didn't believe the nonsense forum-hype about TWFing being dead when MoTU shipped and actually tested things from themselves and observed that ever with all the THFing love from EDs TWFing is still better.

Unless you have an ESoS . . . and those grow on trees don't they?

[Loromir]

With the kind of DPS that all classes are able to dish out today as opposed to 6 months ago, I don't feel nerfing a +4 damage (to basically +2) is something really worth raising your blood pressure over. Does it suck? Yea I guess so. But in the overall scheme of things it's not that much of a nerf.

They could and probably should compensate by adding a slot. They could have handled it a bit better by adding it to the release notes.

In the end, those poor mobs are still doomed to die a horrible death. Losing 2 points per swing in DPS won't change that at all.

[Grailhawk]

The Stockholm Syndrome in this forum is mindboggling.

It really is.

Its like people are saying it would be OK for the car sales man who sold you a Porsche to come to your house and take the car while saying "hey we decided to go in a different direction with that model here is the replacement" and leave you with a Pinto. I don't think any one would try and excuse that behavior yet that's whats being done here.

I know that in the EULA we say they can but there's some good faith to that agreement and time and time again Turbine has showed utter disregard for us in this matter.

[davyscy]

Anyone who didn't believe the nonsense forum-hype about TWFing being dead when MoTU shipped and actually tested things from themselves and observed that ever with all the THFing love from EDs TWFing is still better.

LOL, I rest my case. TWF didn't become inferior when MoTU shipped, it happened way before that.

*edit* Grailhawk I suppose you are also an avid TWF lover then? Because I think at this point I've pretty much proven that for anything other than TWF melees you won't have room to fit both claw set and planar focus (and even for TWF, unless you can fit seeker10 on weapon, ie, t3 alchemical with fire t1, you won't really have room for claw)

[Ape_Man]

LOL, I rest my case. TWF didn't become inferior when MoTU shipped, it happened way before that.

I thought it before . . . now I must say it . . .

I sense much greatness in this thread.

[fco-karatekid]

It really is.

Its like people are saying it would be OK for the car sales man who sold you a Porsche to come to your house and take the car while saying "hey we decided to go in a different direction with that model here is the replacement" and leave you with a Pinto. I don't think any one would try and excuse that behavior yet that's whats being done here.

I know that in the EULA we say they can but there's some good faith to that agreement and time and time again Turbine has showed utter disregard for us in this matter.

Car analogy - thread complete!

(I actually agree with you, just thought that was funny)

[Grailhawk]

What are you, illiterate?

No I'm calling you out for being a apologist for one of the worst ideas Turbine has ever had ...

[Ape_Man]

Car analogy - thread complete!

(I actually agree with you, just thought that was funny)

No, Godwin's law hasn't been upheld yet. We still have much further to go

[rest]

are you on about again?

No, just a comment on who would have changed the set.

[fco-karatekid]

No, Godwin's law hasn't been upheld yet. We still have much further to go

Touche' and correct, my shortsightedness!

[SableShadow]

No, Godwin's law hasn't been upheld yet.

You know who else didn't like car analogies?
Hitler.
Just sayin'...

[Spartywinz]

Nonsense. The current clawset is the best-in-slot item for anything that does damage.

meh not quite, maybe any pure melee that does damage.

[Bowser_Koopa]

Bowser here to save the day.....again.

Look lets face it for a lot of us, and by a lot I mean those of us who have been at the "End Game" for awhile the only way left to advance your character at all is loot. That means loot (and DDO turning into a social chat game with speedbump mobs) is the draw to keep us playing. As a company Turbine thought, hey we want to sell new stuff so lets nerf that old stuff we already got all the powergamerzergalist money from Epic Fens a long time ago lets move on. And to those people who bought 200 raid bypass timers to pull their CiTW loot and upgrade it, well here comes Epic Gianthold and we want them to want those shinies now so....swing of the nerf bat.

And so here we all are thinking man...now I have to do Epic Gianthold (not that most of us weren't going to already but don't tell Turbine that) so we can get our dps back and have new shines to replace our formerly shinies.

It's the story that's never going to end folks later this year when the cap goes to 30 and most likely VIPs have to pay for that we will because we will do whatever it takes to get 1 more ac or +4 damage anything it takes to make your favorite toon kill those poor mobs .0005% faster or die .002% less than before.

Bowserkoopa,

Without the grind keeping us here what would the hamsters powering the servers run from in fear to keep it going.