I don't even know what to call this...

[Narfle_the_Garthok]

I love this kind of player. Playing on my geared out main I can solo and then some when playing any bluebar and this kind of player keeps me on my toes. I mean, I ran the content dozens of times but if I don't pay attention he is likely to get himself killed. And meanwhile I can give some pointers over voicechat.

[BOgre]

The only conclusion I can come to is that he knew exactly what he was doing. He didn't want to spend plat on a hire, and figured you'd do nicely. Next time stand in lava for a while when he calls for heals, then ask HIM to heal YOU.

[SiliconScout]

In a way that is a symptom of the problem. So many have discovered that a hire is cheap healing they almost always have one and seem to forget (or not care) when their "hireling" has an actual brain at the other end of the game.

[silence383]

lol. Kind of seems like paying a car payment for your other half. You come in say my car broke down I need help, and they say no MINE. You fix your own car and by the way can you pick me up advil on the way home "I" have a headache..thanks so much lol.

[cpito]

My rabid obsession? My cause? Who are you? Am I supposed to know you from somewhere? Oh, I totally know the OP from other threads, but I'm sorry I just don't remember you at all from anything. That's a good thing though, in my opinion, because the reason I remember most people I remember from the forums isn't because of their insightful reflections on the state of the game.

Yes, your rabid obsession and your cause. How else do you explain you coming in here frothing at the mouth and raving about BYOH when all information provided in the OP was completely contrary to that? In my experience, it takes someone with a serious axe to grind to make the illogical leap of equating "when" with "always".

LMAO, you really think so much of yourself that you think not knowing me matters? Are my feelings supposed to be hurt because you don't remember me? I'll have to put that on my "to-do" list... right after "give a ****". All that post proves is that you have an over-inflated sense of self.

As for who I am? Well the obvious answer for this thread is: a seven year veteran with superior reading comprehension skills.

[Jeremiah179]

If I consider him to be a d-bag for not sharing his SP, I don't think it would be right for me to do the same thing back to him. I prefer to explain what I consider to be polite gaming and working in groups.

I think if I treat people, even the rude, immature people, with contempt or rudeness (even if they deserve it) they are far, far less likely to listen to anything I have to say or try to learn anything from the situation. I think you get better results and the person is more likely to learn if you treat them politely and sort of "lead by example."

I appreciate your point of view - and it seems altruistic and that you are the better person. But sometimes, a person has to be exposed to the consequences of their behaviour or they do not learn to behave.... better. So the altruist is in fact only serving themselves and not mankind... at the same time congratulating themselves on their high moral standards in their own eyes... even though it really does not help the other person in many cases.

You can be hard or harsh without being the very offensive term you suddenly chose to use. I was just having fun with ideas to retaliate - I fall victim to over niceness as well... but I would of at least left immediately, unless they were useful to me... then I would of obtained my goal and quietly moved on... I think I would of at least pointed out the lack of partnership to the other player... but it would of depended on my mood to be honest.

As for this whole chilldude battle within this thread... seems to have an agenda to be honest. I actually feel he has a valid point. If there is evidence of you behaving or feeling strongly one way...why tell a long story making you seem to behave a totally different way. He may of just noticed your link... and never thought about you one lick before that event...I could not possibly know.

These perfect "stories" often fit exactly the hidden agenda - everyone says... see - healers are abused like crazy... that player should of contributed just as much as that healer and they certainly didn't... bad player base!

But I could easily be reading to much into this. lol

[Ganolyn]

Its an interesting symptom of a much larger issue in the current PUG scene, inflicted on the rest of the player base by those who think a group is defined as 2-6 people soloing the same quest instance.

It's not just the PUG scene. Have you ever run with a tight group of TR's who know the game so well that they are actually bored with it, but don't want to admit it and keep grinding away on lives through quests they've run a million times? Of course you have.

Many times you're lucky to get into the quest and finish buffing before you hear "Voices on!" if you are not someone who knows it in their sleep. No one communicates well, they all expect everyone to know everything, so if you are ignorant of something you are SOL. It was absolutely the most boring and frustrating time I have had playing this game.

I'll take jerks, newbs and fools over that any day. Jerks you can squelch, newbs you can teach and fools you can laugh at. Being abandoned by your party to die in Elite Bravery Bonus runs because you don't have every path and nuance of the quest branded into your brain is a much less satisfying experience.

[Narfle_the_Garthok]

I think part of the unsatisfying experience in that case is the following (subconcious) thought: "I can't believe they left me behind and just expect me too follow them. What jerks. Hey, I wonder what is behind this closed door surrounded by unbroken barrels and lacking any t-bags around. Ow ****, a group of mobs. Blargh. Those jerks."

Seriously. Don't go exploring elite content without a (fitting) group. If in group of zergers. Run with the wolves, learn a bit from their powergamy talk, get some fast xp and drop when it gets tedious too start group more your pace. Simple, but not done as oft as one would expect.

[mobrien316]

I appreciate your point of view - and it seems altruistic and that you are the better person. But sometimes, a person has to be exposed to the consequences of their behaviour or they do not learn to behave.... better. So the altruist is in fact only serving themselves and not mankind... at the same time congratulating themselves on their high moral standards in their own eyes... even though it really does not help the other person in many cases.

Well, that's an interesting way of viewing it.

If you are in a party, and someone is rude and immature and no fun to group with, and he or she makes a suggestion as to how you should change the way you play, how likely are you to listen to them?


On the other hand, if the person in your party plays with civility, intelligence, and maturity, and he or she makes a suggestion as to how you can change your play style a bit so as to contribute more to groups, you are more likely to listen and consider making the change.

If you see that as serving one's self only... Well, you and I have differing viewpoints on the subject.

[cpito]

As for this whole chilldude battle within this thread... seems to have an agenda to be honest. I actually feel he has a valid point. If there is evidence of you behaving or feeling strongly one way...why tell a long story making you seem to behave a totally different way. He may of just noticed your link... and never thought about you one lick before that event...I could not possibly know.

It's one thing to feel one way and another to have it interpreted to the extreme. Liking to play in byoh groups... even preferring it... even as a cleric... does not translate into only playing byoh. Does the OP have an agenda? Of couse he does or he wouldn't be posting. It's not even a hidden agenga and if it has anything to do with byoh it's more along the lines of "people like this are why I like to run with self-sufficient players". Chilldude, on the other hand, expressly mentioned knowing who the OP is and posted trying to call him out on a subject obviously near and dear to his heart that is only peripherally related to and not even mentioned in the OP. He would have a valid point if the OP was a strict byoher but he's not. Instead, Chill has gone to the extreme of twisting "when I byoh" into "I only byoh" for the sole purpose of promoting his own anti-byoh campaign.

[Purgatory]

From his behaviour, I guess he is most probably a kid. Don't think a grown up person would be so ignorant of such reasonable ettiquette in this case.

First day on the internet?

[Jasparion]

From his behaviour, I guess he is most probably a kid. Don't think a grown up person would be so ignorant of such reasonable ettiquette in this case.

I know people over the age of 40 who play exactly like this.

[kierg10]

From his behaviour, I guess he is most probably a kid. Don't think a grown up person would be so ignorant of such reasonable ettiquette in this case.

Hi Welcome to the interwebz, may I take your order?

[mobrien316]

It's one thing to feel one way and another to have it interpreted to the extreme. Liking to play in byoh groups... even preferring it... even as a cleric... does not translate into only playing byoh. Does the OP have an agenda? Of couse he does or he wouldn't be posting. It's not even a hidden agenga and if it has anything to do with byoh it's more along the lines of "people like this are why I like to run with self-sufficient players". Chilldude, on the other hand, expressly mentioned knowing who the OP is and posted trying to call him out on a subject obviously near and dear to his heart that is only peripherally related to and not even mentioned in the OP. He would have a valid point if the OP was a strict byoher but he's not. Instead, Chill has gone to the extreme of twisting "when I byoh" into "I only byoh" for the sole purpose of promoting his own anti-byoh campaign.

Chilldude also apparently hasn't read the link in my signature, even though he clearly likes to refer to it. If he had read it, he would have seen that, when my cleric posts BYOH groups, all he's looking for is that people have their own cure pots, poison pots, curse pots, etc... My cleric still heals them, he just prefers to group with people who don't operate under the impression that the cleric is 100% responsible for everyone else's red bar.

Anyone who has a problem with that shouldn't even be in groups; they should be soloing with a hireling cleric.

[Cendaer]

Early this morning (or very late last night) I was in Gianthold with my level 15 battle cleric, doing slayers. A level 16 sorcerer joined me after a few minutes and asked if I would mind recalling so he could run with me, as he was new, didn't know his way around, and would probably need healing. I said "no problem" and recalled and then we both stepped back in. He asked if he could have a Deathward and I gave it to him, no problem.

As we were running around I had my aura going, but he kept getting so far away that he would ask for a heal, which I kept giving him. I told him several times that if he stood closer he probably wouldn't need a heal because he'd be in my aura, but he ignored me. I also told him that if he could refrain from tossing a spell at each cluster of mobs until I jumped into the middle of them, he'd have less of them running after him all the time and would therefore need less heals. He said that's the way he plays.

I usually carry a stack of Heroism pots and use them quite liberally. After tossing the sorc a couple of dozen heals, I asked him if he had Greater Heroism, thinking he could give it to me and I could stop chugging pots every five minutes. He said he does have it, but when I asked for it he said he prefers to focus on offensive spellcasting rather than buffs.

I actually stopped and asked if he was serious. He said he was.

I was tempted to tell him that, while it was apparent he needed me for healing, I didn't need him, the feeble scorching rays he kept tossing at the fire giants, or his lousy aggro management. I was also tempted to recall, boot him, and re-enter without a word.

Instead, I (politely) pointed out that I was using my SP for healing him, and buffing him, and it was hardly unreasonable for me to ask for a GH in return. He asked if I "really needed" the GH and I said I don't "need" it, but it is handy to have. Finally, he gave it to me, but was clearly not very happy about it.

I have no idea if this person "stoned" his way to 16 or not, but it certainly is not out of the realm of possibility. He started off politely enough, but clearly didn't like any suggestions at all on my part, even when it limited to simply asking if he could stay close enough to be healed by my aura. The first time I asked him that, he responded with something like, "Why? You can't heal me from there?"

Okay... I just wanted to vent a bit.

...it's an irresistable force meeting an unmovable object...

Fascinating.

When cooperative players mix with un-cooperative players, it can sometimes be like using a cheese grater to scratch an itch. It gets the job done, but there are consequences.
.:.

[Seamonkeysix]

I think you sounded patient and reasonable.

In cases like this, it can be the most beneficial to not heal the other player until he dies, and then immediately rez him. When he asks what gives, you simply tell him, "Your playing style makes it more SP efficient for me to rez you than heal you". If he still doesn't get the point, it's time to move on.

[Jeremiah179]

Well, that's an interesting way of viewing it.

If you are in a party, and someone is rude and immature and no fun to group with, and he or she makes a suggestion as to how you should change the way you play, how likely are you to listen to them?


On the other hand, if the person in your party plays with civility, intelligence, and maturity, and he or she makes a suggestion as to how you can change your play style a bit so as to contribute more to groups, you are more likely to listen and consider making the change.

If you see that as serving one's self only... Well, you and I have differing viewpoints on the subject.

Hmmm... you seem to be quoting my one statement but responding to my first comments...where I playfully chided you for being to nice, followed by coming up with 3-4 different ways to deal with it... mostly in jest. However, you do not say in your original post anything about being civil and then making some helpful suggestions.

Secondly, I am sorry about the later part of my second post... I do not really care about the squabble with chilldude... I was just musing that I saw some truth on both sides here...possibly...

Last... I did read your signature link and I agree with it actually... I have a FvS and play much the same way...

I try to be around as many people as possible and spam mass heals and mass cures... I help people in distress when I notice in time... but I want to fight stuff and debuff stuff and help all of the group in other ways also...and if you run off to do something else...I am not chasing you...

Usually I am right in the middle of the fray swinging away at least...spamming cures and some low sp attacks at least... it never has dawned on me to be concerned about other peoples cursed condition or poison...and if you want to be healed...come get somewhere within range...

Of course...I try to save individuals with heals and such - but I do not commit 100% of time to babysitting.

Back to the original concern however - I have been misrepresented -- there is a big difference between being civil and teaching a person nothing, then coming here to tell all your friends so you can be showered with how nice you are and how bad they are... and actually just telling that person the way it is...dropping group and letting them learn to get along better with real life people even though he is in a virtual world. And then not telling anyone else, because it is of no one elses concern... Just a difference of opinion I guess.

[Ivan_Milic]

Always thelanis.

[Dimbo]

[FestusHood]

If you want to stick to the facts surrounding this particular instance, that is fine with me. Can you explain how the sorc should be expected to buff you while you, as a cleric, should not be expected to heal others. Can you explain why you did not post a BYOH LFM? Can you explain why, even though the LFM wasn't BYOH, took it upon yourself to recall out specifically to "babysit/nannybot" a sorc and hold their hand? Can you please explain how the fact that you took it upon yourself to be generous with your heals, you feel the sorc should have been generous with his buffs? Is it really a 2-way street? If I buff you in a BYOH can I then expect you to heal me?

Take a step back, you've really flown completely off the rails here. You apparently seem to think that because someone sometimes posts byoh lfm's that it somehow obligates them to always play that way. He doesn't have to explain himself to you or anyone else.

When you try to make the point that the sorc was just following the philosophy of the op, it implies that he is aware of the philsophy, and probably that he is aware of the forum identity of the person he was playing with. I highly doubt either is the case.

I'm not a big fan of byoh, i'm a believer that if you group with someone, you do what you can to help them out. In this case, you trying to support the sorc's position based on any sort of self sufficiency philosophy is utter nonsense, as the sorc clearly wasn't self sufficient. He was self centered. The exact attitude that i don't agree with relating to byoh philosophy.