New TR and Arty

[kyleann]

Thanks everyone for helping me get back into the swing of things!

Only took 12 chest pops to get my Strinati's! I can definitely see the advantage of having some Anger's Step clickys so that will be happening tonight!

The Tomb RA seems like a lot of work for a lvl 9 item...then again I suppose it cuts down on the tougher undead...I will probably farm for that passively at level and see how it goes.

I've kept up gearing my pup, but I should probably craft him something with bodyfeeder/lifeshield since I have the crafting junk sitting in my bag wasting space...Having him be more self-sufficient will definitely cut down on SP waste...although I find that at level 5 he actually takes more hits than me in tough fights!

I got my first decent repeater...can't BELIEVE I played from lvl 1 to 4 using a plain xbow (Oladren's). No wonder I was relying so much on 2H melee damage and wondered why the heck RA was even remotely useful...With Strinati's (and I had Flicker before that) and a repeater, wow my DPS skyrocketed!

With that in mind, what sort of Repeaters should I be looking for? Any named ones up to lvl 20 that are "must have" in terms of dps or utility? I suppose I'll end up like all my other characters and have about 10 weapon sets by level 16...

[droid327]

No good named repeaters really, so lootgen and crafted till L12-15

Holy of Pure Good, Holy of Bleed, and Bane are always good. HoPG will give you the best general damage vs Evil mobs, which are most commonly seen types except elementals and beasts.

Endgame...cormyrian, greensteel, alchemical, or the named FR one (quill? Needle?)

[Sonos]

Thanks everyone for helping me get back into the swing of things!

Only took 12 chest pops to get my Strinati's! I can definitely see the advantage of having some Anger's Step clickys so that will be happening tonight!

The Tomb RA seems like a lot of work for a lvl 9 item...then again I suppose it cuts down on the tougher undead...I will probably farm for that passively at level and see how it goes.

I've kept up gearing my pup, but I should probably craft him something with bodyfeeder/lifeshield since I have the crafting junk sitting in my bag wasting space...Having him be more self-sufficient will definitely cut down on SP waste...although I find that at level 5 he actually takes more hits than me in tough fights!

I got my first decent repeater...can't BELIEVE I played from lvl 1 to 4 using a plain xbow (Oladren's). No wonder I was relying so much on 2H melee damage and wondered why the heck RA was even remotely useful...With Strinati's (and I had Flicker before that) and a repeater, wow my DPS skyrocketed!

With that in mind, what sort of Repeaters should I be looking for? Any named ones up to lvl 20 that are "must have" in terms of dps or utility? I suppose I'll end up like all my other characters and have about 10 weapon sets by level 16...

12 loots only? Nice! Took me 6 toons ransacking; many more than 12

Xbows.. GS, Alchemical are cool but will take some time. I carry smiters, Pure goods, etc... The Silver Slinger is a must have imo, from Servants of the Overlord, epic or not. The Hellfire epic is decent though I have not bothered to epic one yet.

Random Smiters, Good, etc. I icy bursted a few repeaters for this life, which helped. A paralyzer is not a bad idea but may have to wait til U17 to find one. Paralyzers in general have been bugged in loot table.

The Hand of the Tombs runearm you mentioned? I used that in Delera's and the Strinati's Cannon last night, and if you go fire specc in early levels and then switch to force after you get prismatic, BBs, tactical detonation, etc... I found the Strinati's to be more fun and effective than the hand of the tombs. Personal preference there.

[kyleann]

I have enough mats for a GS triple Pos repeater, so I'll probably just do that and then get myself a Slinger and just AH the in-betweens...

I don't often get lucky with drops...maybe there is a hidden "welcome back" loot bonus to entice me to go VIP again. Strinati's came quickly which was nice, and it's a blast (pun intended) to play around with!

I'll be looking for smite, banish, and maybe a stat reducer for later on? Is that still a viable weapon choice WoP weapons?

[Singular]

I have enough mats for a GS triple Pos repeater, so I'll probably just do that and then get myself a Slinger and just AH the in-betweens...

I don't often get lucky with drops...maybe there is a hidden "welcome back" loot bonus to entice me to go VIP again. Strinati's came quickly which was nice, and it's a blast (pun intended) to play around with!

I'll be looking for smite, banish, and maybe a stat reducer for later on? Is that still a viable weapon choice WoP weapons?

If you do a triple pos, there's no point in having the silver slinger, epic or normal. The +++ beats it for damage output and undead killing. The only thing it's good for, as far as I can tell, is when you don't have a +++. And maybe for the silver part of it.

[kyleann]

If you do a triple pos, there's no point in having the silver slinger, epic or normal. The +++ beats it for damage output and undead killing. The only thing it's good for, as far as I can tell, is when you don't have a +++. And maybe for the silver part of it.

Good point. I was pretty happy when I looked up the trip pos and actually had enough for it...just need to farm the stupid twigs and pebbles...

[CThruTheEgo]

Triple positive is definitely a solid option. A Lit2 is certainly better, and a lot of fun with a repeater, but also much more expensive. Those are probably the two best GS options for an arti. Silver Slinger's best use is against the Abbott.

Regarding spot: just carry a max wis item (or owl pots before you can use a +4 item), and a max spot item for your level. If you are into crafting then it will be easy to keep these maxed. Also heroism pots (and greater heroism scrolls once you have the UMD to use them) and a luck item (voice of the master, or crafted) will help you keep your spot skill maxed. Even with a starting wis of 6, just having the above items will allow to spot the majority of traps at level. Trapping is mostly about gear. Keep your gear maxed and you can handle 95% of traps at level.

You've gotten some great advice in this thread so far, so I don't have anything else to add, but if you want an actual build to follow, then check out the link in my sig. It should at least give you some stuff to think about.

[kyleann]

Triple positive is definitely a solid option. A Lit2 is certainly better, and a lot of fun with a repeater, but also much more expensive. Those are probably the two best GS options for an arti. Silver Slinger's best use is against the Abbott.

You've gotten some great advice in this thread so far, so I don't have anything else to add, but if you want an actual build to follow, then check out the link in my sig. It should at least give you some stuff to think about.

I went with trip pos not only because it's cheaper (by a LOT) but because I had read that the damage difference isn't a whole heck of a lot, and that at the higher levels there are more mobs that are lit resistant. Whether that is true or not, I'm not sure. I know when I was 20 with my Tempest I had a trip pos rapier that worked mighty fine. Considering the vast majority of enemies are susceptible to holy/good I'm okay with having to switch to another random wep for those few quests where mobs have immunity. It's just too many larges for a casual player like myself.

That was one of the builds I looked at, and probably one I'll be looking more closely at once I get near 20 again. I am debating on whether to make this toon my multiple life toon and just get another character to level to 25 or if I want to run epic with her. I have read that Arty's aren't "the best" when it comes to lvl 25 characters, but by the time I get there that could change. Not that I need to be the best, but I don't really want to be a buffbot. I'm no bard

[CThruTheEgo]

I have read that Arty's aren't "the best" when it comes to lvl 25 characters, but by the time I get there that could change. Not that I need to be the best, but I don't really want to be a buffbot. I'm no bard

I have to disagree with this. They are great for endgame and are much more than just a buffbot. Arti's are extremely versatile, survivable, and lethal. It's true they don't have the nuking power of a sorc, but then again, no one but sorcs have that kind of nuking power. Their survivability is top notch. Their dps is quite high and comes in a variety of forms to suit the demands of the situation. They can self buff almost any buff you need. They have some CC capability through tactical detonation and prismatic strike, the effectiveness of this varies based on quest difficulty. They have the most powerful blade barriers in the game, which is one of the best AoE dps spells in the game. And they are not entirely dependent on the blue bar thanks to the crossbow and rune arm. I saw one of the earlier posters in this thread make the comment that arti's are not suitable for endgame and that's just not correct. Sure they require some investment, but so does any other class built for endgame. As long as you utilize the strengths of the class to their fullest advantage an arti makes an excellent endgame build, imo.

[Loriac]

I have to disagree with this. They are great for endgame and are much more than just a buffbot. Arti's are extremely versatile, survivable, and lethal. It's true they don't have the nuking power of a sorc, but then again, no one but sorcs have that kind of nuking power. Their survivability is top notch. Their dps is quite high and comes in a variety of forms to suit the demands of the situation. They can self buff almost any buff you need. They have some CC capability through tactical detonation and prismatic strike, the effectiveness of this varies based on quest difficulty. They have the most powerful blade barriers in the game, which is one of the best AoE dps spells in the game. And they are not entirely dependent on the blue bar thanks to the crossbow and rune arm. I saw one of the earlier posters in this thread make the comment that arti's are not suitable for endgame and that's just not correct. Sure they require some investment, but so does any other class built for endgame. As long as you utilize the strengths of the class to their fullest advantage an arti makes an excellent endgame build, imo.

I think you're referring to this:

Level 21+ is different; you'll notice that there's no true super benefit of any particular Destiny - sure the ranger boosts your ranged and the wiz one boosts some of your spell features, but then the Arti is not the perfect ranger or the perfect caster. There was hinted that thre will be a specific Arti destiny and hopefully something that will boost rune arm DC so you can use any of them effectivly (anything with an AOE will suffer in epic quests due to reflex saves).

My own experiences with the pure artificer tally with patang01's. Whilst the pure artificer has good damage and adequate cc through EH content, the class loses ground at endgame. I agree with patang01's analysis that this is down to the lack of a good ED for the arti; nothing at present really stands out. Shadowdancer probably represents the most optimised end-game ED for an arti, but its instakill abilities don't currently work properly, and worse, instakill seems to be a losing proposition in terms of developer design intent. Meanwhile shiradi offers no Int boosts, and the ranged damage boost is mediocre (compared to the benefit that force spec'd arcanes get from the tree) whilst FotW doesn't play nicely with repeaters.

I now see taking a pure artificer to epic cap as being a transition stage; it'll allow you to experience all content to EH without any problems (you can solo everything easily on an arti except for raids ofc). But a true end-game build today is one that mixes heavy dps (either weapon based or force-spec'd shiradi) with good survivability. The effectiveness of DC spells and abilities is slowly being eroded away by new content, with higher mob saves with each update, and the artificer is badly placed to increase DCs (no +Int at capstone, only a couple of EDs help, neither of which fully meshes with the arti toolkit, -3DC inherent in only having level 6 spells).

Note that this comment is directed more at the coming content than existing content; from what I've seen, the artificer will do ok at all levels up to u15, u16 is harder, and the reports coming from Lamaland re: eGH don't look promising.

As to my recommendation: experience the game as a level-capped artificer at least once, its an enjoyable experience all the way to EH content. Then, if you like the core class abilities, consider TR'ing to a juggernaut build (thats what I've done with my artificer, who I'd originally intended to be on his final life as a caster/ranged arti).

[Singular]

@ Loriac

I'm enjoying engame content on my Artie - I have 3 ranger past lives, so do slightly more dps than most arties, and have focused more on my dps side than spell casting (in terms of giving up DC's and Lore equipment in favor of extra xbow damage output). To that end, I put out roughly 450 dps (b/c of the addition of Boulder Toss, Primal Scream and Adrenaline, dropping when I run out of the later two - taking out trash is diff b/c of blade barrier and other spells + clickies).

So I hope you're wrong!

I think it's possible on an artie to solo EE content, with the right mixture of past lives, equipment, clickies and strategy - to that end, I'm working toward it!

(though I prefer pugging)

[CThruTheEgo]

I think you're referring to this:

Actually, I was referring to this:

I find that an Arti is like a Sorc in reverse. A Sorc starts out pretty crappy but by endgame(and certainly before) it is a force to be reckoned with. The Arti comes out one shot bursting everything on elite from Repeater right out of the box. You'll be able to solo content with ease till mid-to-end game. At end game it's survivable and does some pretty decent damage but it feels less god-like to be certain :P even in Shiradi. Buffing will be your most appreciated skill :P

I know there are Artis that want to throw tomatoes at me right now, but no denying there is a feel of diminishing power returns as one approaches end game from god mode lowbie-land.(this is in reference to the runearm/repeater style, cannot comment on end-game juggalo.. er juggernaut style yet but it looks pretty sweet at end game).

...snip...

Regarding EDs, I disagree that there is no good ED for an arti. In fact, I think there is one to suit every aspect of the class. Shiradi if you want to emphasize ranged. Draconic if you want to emphasize nuking. Shadowdancer if you want to balance survivability, DCs, and sneak attack. Shiradi is the weakest choice, imo. But this has all been said before and I don't want to hijack the thread with that debate.

And while it is true that CC capability diminishes in EE, it is not rendered completely useless (if you've built for it) and can still save you in a pinch when needed. Also, none of the arti's other abilities diminish in this way. Crossbow, rune arm, blade barrier, and survivability remain just as effective in EE as it is in EH. A properly built and played artificer has both of the qualities you mention that are required of a "true" endgame build: heavy dps and good survivability.

I can't speak to upcoming content since I don't keep up with the Lamannia forums. And I prefer not to speculate on content that hasn't yet gone live, since it is still subject to change until it does.

[Wulverine]

I've solo'd EE U14,15 and 16 on my Completionist Arti.

And it wasn't that hard. (and faster than you might think)

Don't underestimate a fully tricked out Arti at cap. You have to spec for DPS though.

[kyleann]

Just seeing both opposing sides shows me that there is enough wiggle room to find enjoyment out of a capped Arti, which is a good thing. I'm not making up my mind on whether to TR again or not quite yet (got a few more levels to gain for that). So far I've only solo'd from level 1 to 7 and am having no difficulties maintaining an elite/hard streak on any at-level content which tell me the lower levels are a breeze for a decently geared arty.

I leveled a sorc before I quit and I can't say it went as smoothly those first few levels, so I'm happy so far. Honestly, I feel like my damage output is pretty darn good when I compare it to what my Finesse Tempest Drow was doing damage-wise. Definitely this arty will perform end-game content better than what she was in a past life!

Also, got some Anger's Steps. THANK YOU for that recommendation, it has made life sooo much easier.

[Loriac]

@ Loriac

I'm enjoying engame content on my Artie - I have 3 ranger past lives, so do slightly more dps than most arties, and have focused more on my dps side than spell casting (in terms of giving up DC's and Lore equipment in favor of extra xbow damage output). To that end, I put out roughly 450 dps (b/c of the addition of Boulder Toss, Primal Scream and Adrenaline, dropping when I run out of the later two - taking out trash is diff b/c of blade barrier and other spells + clickies).

So I hope you're wrong!

I think it's possible on an artie to solo EE content, with the right mixture of past lives, equipment, clickies and strategy - to that end, I'm working toward it!

(though I prefer pugging)

If you don't mind grinding out ED levels, you should definitely try to slot in energy burst if you can (takes 10 fate points though). On most EH content, its a one-shot kill to all mobs surrounding you. It can be quickened (unlike boulder toss) for free, which makes it a really nice kill-everything-on-the-screen-every-30-seconds button on the lower difficulties.

If you're in the DI tree itself, I also quite like dragon breath even though its only 5 uses per rest. It can even be a different colour to the energy burst (I spec'd my arti in force, lightning, and acid, so had an acid burst and electric breath for greater versatility).

[Singular]

If you don't mind grinding out ED levels, you should definitely try to slot in energy burst if you can (takes 10 fate points though). On most EH content, its a one-shot kill to all mobs surrounding you. It can be quickened (unlike boulder toss) for free, which makes it a really nice kill-everything-on-the-screen-every-30-seconds button on the lower difficulties.

If you're in the DI tree itself, I also quite like dragon breath even though its only 5 uses per rest. It can even be a different colour to the energy burst (I spec'd my arti in force, lightning, and acid, so had an acid burst and electric breath for greater versatility).

Thanks for the tip! I'll get to Draconic when I can. B/c of my ranger past lives, I started in Shiradi, thinking that would be the most fun for an artie. Now I'm thoroughly enjoying Fury of the Wild. It's great to see up to 850 damage using adrenaline on an X-bow!

[kyleann]

Ran into something else that was overhauled since I left that is throwing me for a loop. Spell power. I am WF so self-healing is pretty important and I want to maximize my healing output. I have a Reconstruction hat and a Potency ring that are ML lvl 7 that I have so far...I notice maybe a 10 point difference in heals. I range without the items from 25-30 and with them 35-40. That's a pretty rough range, but I'd say its a noticeable +10. Is there a way to get that even higher? Repair Enhancements seem like they wouldn't "pay-off" because you would miss out on other, better ones.

I was grouping with someone who said they were able to heal around 70ish with a Repeair Serious at level 7, so I'm just curious how that is possible or if he just had no idea what he was talking about (probably the latter, but I don't want to be missing out on double the healing power if it's out there!).

Thanks for all the help so far!

[Loriac]

Ran into something else that was overhauled since I left that is throwing me for a loop. Spell power. I am WF so self-healing is pretty important and I want to maximize my healing output. I have a Reconstruction hat and a Potency ring that are ML lvl 7 that I have so far...I notice maybe a 10 point difference in heals. I range without the items from 25-30 and with them 35-40. That's a pretty rough range, but I'd say its a noticeable +10. Is there a way to get that even higher? Repair Enhancements seem like they wouldn't "pay-off" because you would miss out on other, better ones.

I was grouping with someone who said they were able to heal around 70ish with a Repeair Serious at level 7, so I'm just curious how that is possible or if he just had no idea what he was talking about (probably the latter, but I don't want to be missing out on double the healing power if it's out there!).

Thanks for all the help so far!

Potency and reconstruct items don't stack; only the highest bonus applies.

At level 7, an arti can have repair manipulation 4, so 70 repair spell power from enhancements. You can get another 54 from a reconstruction item (cannith crafted with lowered ML to 7). In theory you could also have implement spellpower, adding say another 6-9 spellpower (this is unlikely unless you have a festival crafted repeater). So at most around 130 spellpower.

A Repair Serious is doing 3d6+6+7 at level 7, or 23.5hp mean. 130 spellpower => 2.3x base effect, so 54hp damage repaired on average. However, its possible that he was using empower or maximise with the spell. Empower would add 75% of base (23.5), i.e. 18hp whilst Maximise adds 150% of base, so around 36hp. An empowered RSD with maximum spellpower at level 7 will hit for around 72hp, an empowered one for 90hp, and an empowered maximised one for 108hp.

However, you're unlikely to need metamagics at that level, as your total hp is likely around 80-150, so even 54hp is 30-50% of your hp pool.

[kyleann]

Should have caught that they don't stack...ah well, not the first time in DDO I had two items that didn't stack on

Frees up a ring spot, which is nice. Since its only level 7 I probably wont waste time/money crafting lvl 9 items. Don't plan on being 7 long. Just wanted to be sure I was getting the most bang for my SP buck, which apparently I wasn't if I was stacking non-stackable equipment bonuses.

Thank you for the excellent information and +1 to you for the maths.

As a side note, at level 7 what should be my "most-common" spells? I have Stoneskin, Mass Shield of Faith, Insight Strike, Elemental Weapon, Master's Touch, Conjure Bolts, Enchant Armor, and all the repairs obviously. I probably have other spells too, but I don't use them. Master's Touch is only for my Ghost Touch G-Sword. Shield of Faith and Enchant Armor don't give my character any boost, but they might be helping my pet (never looked actually).

Just wondering if Flame Turret is something I should be using. Also, does my Flame enhancement line affect the turret damage?

I expect there will be more questions popping up as I play...I've noticed that it takes more than a single life to figure out "the right way" for each class.

*Edit: Resist Energy is another spell I believe I have that is a staple buff...

[Sonos]

I have to disagree with this. They are great for endgame and are much more than just a buffbot. Arti's are extremely versatile, survivable, and lethal. It's true they don't have the nuking power of a sorc, but then again, no one but sorcs have that kind of nuking power. Their survivability is top notch. Their dps is quite high and comes in a variety of forms to suit the demands of the situation. They can self buff almost any buff you need. They have some CC capability through tactical detonation and prismatic strike, the effectiveness of this varies based on quest difficulty. They have the most powerful blade barriers in the game, which is one of the best AoE dps spells in the game. And they are not entirely dependent on the blue bar thanks to the crossbow and rune arm. I saw one of the earlier posters in this thread make the comment that arti's are not suitable for endgame and that's just not correct. Sure they require some investment, but so does any other class built for endgame. As long as you utilize the strengths of the class to their fullest advantage an arti makes an excellent endgame build, imo.

what you quoted me on was where I said that Arti's start out as god's and have diminishing power returns, counter to Sorcs which start out rough and get progressively more powerful. I said it was survivable and to further that, I think they do decent damage at end game(the pew pew caster arti).

You confused this by assuming that I said they are not suitable for endgame which was not what I was saying, nor the point. My level 25 Shiradi Arti(Bard and Sorc PL) is my raid and end game player atm.

I am also levelling as an arti on another toon for it's 12th life, and it struck me and reminded me how god-like it was leveling it. There are a few completionist arti's on the server that do quite well, the arti is a jack of all trades and is, as mentioned, highly survivable. It's just doesn't have the wow factor for me that it had capping it out, that is the only point I was making. It's solid which may be just as important as builds that burst for insane dmg(not that the arti doesn't have some solid burst DPS).