Build for a Earth Savant Sorcerer

[Serenei]

I plan to play the following Earth Savant Sorcerer :

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Atheos Dark_Elf_Earth
Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(20 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 140
Spell Points: 2032 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 6
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength              8                  8                    8
Dexterity            10                 10                   10
Constitution         14                 14                   14
Intelligence         12                 12                   12
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             20                 25                   27

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               0                  0                    6
Bluff                 5                  8                    8
Concentration         4                 25                   25
Diplomacy             7                 19                   19
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                  8                    8
Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
Hide                  0                  0                    0
Intimidate            5                  8                    8
Jump                 -1                 -1                   -1
Listen               -1                 -1                    1
Move Silently         0                  0                    0
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  1                    1
Search                1                  1                    3
Spot                 -1                 -1                    1
Swim                 -1                 -1                   -1
Tumble                1                  1                    1
Use Magic Device      7                 19                   19

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (1): Shield
Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement


Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Spell (1): Jump
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Conjuration
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I


Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Otto's Resistible Dance
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant I


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Web
Spell (3): Acid Blast
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Deadly Acid II
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (4): Acid Rain
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (4): Ice Storm
Spell (3): Frost Lance
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Deadly Acid III
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Niac's Biting Cold


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Slow
Spell (4): Stoneskin
Spell (5): Cyclonic Blast
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering III


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (6): Reconstruct
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant II


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing III


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (6): True Seeing
Spell (7): Finger of Death
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Deadly Acid IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (8): Symbol of Death
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration II


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Prismatic Spray
Spell (8): Polar Ray
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting V
Enhancement: Deadly Acid V
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VII


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant III
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting VI
Enhancement: Deadly Acid VI


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistible Dance
Spell (9): Mass Hold Monster
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Heightening I


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Enhancement: Sorcerer Bloodline of Power
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting I

Any remark, suggestion and/or enhancement will be welcome.

[HastyPudding]

First things first; most people would say that you're missing toughness. As a Drow, you really need all the HP you can get, as it's going to be quite low as both a sorcerer and Drow have low base HP. The toughness feat, along with racial toughness enhancements, will net you +43 HP, which is fairly significant with just 1 feat and 3 AP.

In all honesty, I think human would make a better sorcerer, in your case. They don't have a stat penalty to con and they're more flexible in their stat enhancements, as well as having an extra feat. Drow make good sorcerers, but usually only to those with a lot of experience scroll healing and kiting (being a fleshie, scrolls and wands will be your source of healing, which can be difficult to master if you're new). There is always warforged, too, which I'm sure you've heard about.

As far as feats go, you've got a few non-conventional choices: maximize and empower are always taken, since your primary focus is to deal damage. Toughness is taken most of the time except with a few specialized builds (usually done by people who really know what they're doing). Depending on what savant you want to be, you can take spell focus: evocation (for fire, air, or water savant) or conjuration (for earth or water savant). If you're going to go into spell focus, you might as well take your second SF:conjuration, as the vast majority of acid/earth spells (the important ones) are conjuration. SF:Evocation really isn't going to help you much, early game, as an earth savant.

Spell penetration isn't going to help you much, either. Your main damaging spells in DDO do not use spell resistance, and sorcerers without wizard/favored soul past lives will have fairly low spell pen, anyway. The majority of sorcerers skip these two feats and get something else, as high spell penetration is usually left to wizards or sorcerers with a lot of past lives and really take advantage of crowd control spells; and as a sorcerer, your crowd control is eliminating the crowd. I would switch out spell penetration/greater spell penetration for spell focus/greater spell focus evocation.

Heighten is a debatable feat. Some sorcerers love it (like air savants, which are 99% dependent on their evocation DC's) and some hate it. As an earth savant your primary damage source will be persistent area effects like acid rain, acid fog, and cloudkill. Heighten usually isn't as effective on persistent aoe's because after the first 'tick' of damage, as long as the enemy remains in the aoe, they'll get no save.

So, a revised list would be:
1 - Toughness
3 - Empower
6 - Maximize
9 - Spell Focus: Conjuration
12 - Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
---from here on it's up to you, really, and it's a matter of preference---
Heighten - if you find yourself getting a lot of reflex saves/evasion on your spells
Quicken - if you're a warforged
Extend - not usually taken on a sorcerer, but it has its uses (like on haste/rage and displacement)
Spell Focus: Evocation - since it looks like you want ice as your secondary element, this would help
Past Life: Wizard - if you have a wizard past life, the active feat acts like a universal spell focus, it's awesome
Spell Penetration - I'd only take these feats on a sorcerer if there really wasn't anything else useful to get, and chances are, you won't be able to fit these into a sorcerer build without extensive game knowledge

As to your spell choice, your setup looks more like an acid-based wizard than a sorcerer. Your main goal as a sorcerer is damage, not crowd control. As stated above, a sorcerer's crowd control is eliminating the crowd. That being said, spells like otto's sphere of dancing or web are still viable spells for sorcerer. Web is your best crowd control, as it's conjuration based (like earth savants) and it ignores spell resistance, and since you're not using fire, it's safe to toss around.

Mandatory spells as an earth savant:
- acid rain
- black dragon bolt
- cloudkill
- acid fog
- displacement
- stoneskin

Master's Touch will help you through the low levels. Grab a great axe/greatsword and use master's touch, then swing away to your heart's delight for the first few levels. And, nightshield is superior to the shield spell, as it adds a bonus to saves early on and AC is practically useless to sorcerers beyond the first few levels.

Ditch Otto's Resistible Dance, Slow, and Ray of Enfeeblement. None of these will help you much as a sorcerer, and both slow and ray are not even used by the majority of wizards. You can also do without greater heroism and true seeing. You can use these spells as scrolls to save a spell slot. Your role isn't to buff, so leave GH to wizards and use scrolls if somebody asks for it.

Energy Drain is a tough choice for sorcerers. You only have 3 level 9 spell slots, and 2 of them should go to meteor storm and wail of the banshee. Consider mass hold monster or power word: kill.

Why would you get reconstruct as a drow? If you're going to heal warforged, use reconstruct scrolls and save yourself a spell slot for something else, notably disintegrate.

Break Enchantment is iffy, at best. Unless you have a lot of added caster-levels through items and epic destinies, this really isn't a smart choice for sorcerers, as there are more useful things to get, such as cone of cold. Let the spellsinger bards and wizards handle the breaking of enchantments.

[UrbanPyro]

Replace Spell Focus: Evocation with Toughness. HP is good, especially on a race that's taking a bit constitution hit.

Replace Spell Penetration for Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration. A First lifer character won't require it for the content that it will be running. Most, if not all, Acid spells are Conjuration. Earth Savant and Web offer good synergies when it comes to crowd control from a Sorcerer. Secondary elements could be cold or fire. With end game content not being devils any more, fire is making a come back!

Your spell list could use some fine tuning as well. Drop Reconstruct for Cone of Cold or Disintegrate. Keep Finger of Death, and Power Word: Kill. Although you will come across enemies with Spell Resistance, not all of them will. Know thy enemy (i.e. caster-types have poor fort saves!).

Additional resources: Standard Sorcerer Builds, List of spells affected by the Elemental Savant

[patang01]

My sorc is human, exactly so I have one more feat (toughness) and more con. Between acid and secondary cold my third spell type is disintegration against things like wisps.

And I agree fully with people who highlight the importance of conjuration - not only because of Web, but also because most of the spell you use are conjuration based (like Savant acid blast) and you'll notice a great improvement in DC against reflex saves when you invest more in conjuration. I use the earthgrab quite frequently which is based on your CON. I don't use cloudkill, power word kill or acid fog but I get good use out of web and acid rain followed up by earth savant acid blast and acid energy burst. You'll notice late game just how important these fundamental spells are (with your destiny of choice).

What I did was simple - max charisma and con. This allows me to have a Charisma of 54 right now (buffed). I also maxed out acid and cold enhancement lines. Those spells will cover 90 percent of my spell need and they do plenty of additional damage even if critters have some resist to it. And for everything else I use disintegration or the blunt damage from ice storm.

The recipe for success is fairly simple; earth grab casters, web mobs, acid rain and energy burst mobs and single kill things with acid blast, dragonbolt or polar ray. If need be cone of cold on mobs.

I also use energy vortex cold.

[DrakHar]

I plan to play the following Earth Savant Sorcerer :

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Atheos Dark_Elf_Earth
Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
(20 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 140
Spell Points: 2032 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 6
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength              8                  8                    8
Dexterity            10                 10                   10
Constitution         14                 14                   14
Intelligence         12                 12                   12
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             20                 25                   27

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               0                  0                    6
Bluff                 5                  8                    8
Concentration         4                 25                   25
Diplomacy             7                 19                   19
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                  8                    8
Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
Hide                  0                  0                    0
Intimidate            5                  8                    8
Jump                 -1                 -1                   -1
Listen               -1                 -1                    1
Move Silently         0                  0                    0
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  1                    1
Search                1                  1                    3
Spot                 -1                 -1                    1
Swim                 -1                 -1                   -1
Tumble                1                  1                    1
Use Magic Device      7                 19                   19

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (1): Shield
Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement


Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Spell (1): Jump
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Conjuration
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I


Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Otto's Resistible Dance
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
Enhancement: Storm Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant I


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Web
Spell (3): Acid Blast
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Deadly Acid II
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (4): Acid Rain
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (4): Ice Storm
Spell (3): Frost Lance
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Deadly Acid III
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Niac's Biting Cold


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Slow
Spell (4): Stoneskin
Spell (5): Cyclonic Blast
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering III


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (6): Reconstruct
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant II


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing III


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (6): True Seeing
Spell (7): Finger of Death
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Deadly Acid IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (8): Symbol of Death
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration II


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Prismatic Spray
Spell (8): Polar Ray
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting V
Enhancement: Deadly Acid V
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VII


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant III
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting VI
Enhancement: Deadly Acid VI


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistible Dance
Spell (9): Mass Hold Monster
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Heightening I


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Enhancement: Sorcerer Bloodline of Power
Enhancement: Charged Spellcasting I

Any remark, suggestion and/or enhancement will be welcome.

I don't like it, basically at all.
Drow sorcs have their place, I guess, but why earth? Earth is less DC intensive than most. Earth savants tend to be warforged - durable, stoic, and dealing healthy damage over time while being indestructible.
This one has low con and no toughness... not a good combination.

[HastyPudding]

I don't like it, basically at all.
Drow sorcs have their place, I guess, but why earth? Earth is less DC intensive than most. Earth savants tend to be warforged - durable, stoic, and dealing healthy damage over time while being indestructible.
This one has low con and no toughness... not a good combination.

^

I retract my earlier post and simply say; what he said. I was trying to be nice and helpful, but, in all honesty, I was thinking the opposite. My first post would have been longer but I looked at the clock and realized it had taken me 15 minutes to write it and decided to stop. Simply put, the build's pretty horrible.

Drow and human make good fire and air savants because of their better DC's. Water can go either way. WF can go any savant, but mesh very well with earth and water due to them not needing DC's.

[Serenei]

In first, many thanks for your complete analyze. That will help me a lot to build the right sorcerer.

First things first; most people would say that you're missing toughness. As a Drow, you really need all the HP you can get, as it's going to be quite low as both a sorcerer and Drow have low base HP. The toughness feat, along with racial toughness enhancements, will net you +43 HP, which is fairly significant with just 1 feat and 3 AP.

You are right. Without hesitation, I can take it now at the first level and forget "Greater Spell Penetration". As you, I think this feat is often great. It's just that this time I would like to do without it, but It' was probably a bad idea.

In all honesty, I think human would make a better sorcerer, in your case. They don't have a stat penalty to con and they're more flexible in their stat enhancements, as well as having an extra feat. Drow make good sorcerers, but usually only to those with a lot of experience scroll healing and kiting (being a fleshie, scrolls and wands will be your source of healing, which can be difficult to master if you're new). There is always warforged, too, which I'm sure you've heard about.

Warforged was my first build but I plan to play it with a friend having a Paladin, and the the healing will be more efficient if I avoid to take a warforged character. By the way I human is probably the bestg option in this particuliar situation.

As far as feats go, you've got a few non-conventional choices: maximize and empower are always taken, since your primary focus is to deal damage. Toughness is taken most of the time except with a few specialized builds (usually done by people who really know what they're doing). Depending on what savant you want to be, you can take spell focus: evocation (for fire, air, or water savant) or conjuration (for earth or water savant). If you're going to go into spell focus, you might as well take your second SF:conjuration, as the vast majority of acid/earth spells (the important ones) are conjuration. SF:Evocation really isn't going to help you much, early game, as an earth savant.

I haven't selected empower because without the enhancements of the Wizard reducing the cost of it I do not think it is profitable. I prefer cast 2 times the same spell to reduce the expanditure of my spell points. My idea is to focus on the ratio damage/spell points and not go to an ultimate DPS. But perhaps I am on the wrong way.

For the same reason I haven't selected Maximise (no enhancement to reduce it) but for any spell requiring at least 25pts the feat could be efficient.

In this philosophy acid spells are great.

Concerning the different savants, and after reflection, I cannot select Fire savant because I want to be able to use Ice spells (Frost Lance, Ice Storm, Niac's Biting Cold, Polar Ray). I could have the same problem with Water savant if I want to use few good Fire spells (mainly Firewall and delayed Fireball). Air savant could be an alternative but few electric spells are interresting : mainly Eladar's Electric Surge and perhaps also Lightning Bolt.
Spells of the Earth savant sound good for me : Melf's Acid Arrow, Acid Blast, Acid rain, cloudkill. I am more reserved with Acid fog.

Spell penetration isn't going to help you much, either. Your main damaging spells in DDO do not use spell resistance, and sorcerers without wizard/favored soul past lives will have fairly low spell pen, anyway. The majority of sorcerers skip these two feats and get something else, as high spell penetration is usually left to wizards or sorcerers with a lot of past lives and really take advantage of crowd control spells; and as a sorcerer, your crowd control is eliminating the crowd. I would switch out spell penetration/greater spell penetration for spell focus/greater spell focus evocation.

Spell penetration and Greater Spell penetration were there to let's me play my sorcerer as a backup controler. Have an idea of the DC to reach at lvl20 (True Reincarnation after that)?

Heighten is a debatable feat. Some sorcerers love it (like air savants, which are 99% dependent on their evocation DC's) and some hate it. As an earth savant your primary damage source will be persistent area effects like acid rain, acid fog, and cloudkill. Heighten usually isn't as effective on persistent aoe's because after the first 'tick' of damage, as long as the enemy remains in the aoe, they'll get no save.

Heighten is mainly for Web. Without it I am afraid that Web spell will be useless.

As to your spell choice, your setup looks more like an acid-based wizard than a sorcerer. Your main goal as a sorcerer is damage, not crowd control. As stated above, a sorcerer's crowd control is eliminating the crowd. That being said, spells like otto's sphere of dancing or web are still viable spells for sorcerer. Web is your best crowd control, as it's conjuration based (like earth savants) and it ignores spell resistance, and since you're not using fire, it's safe to toss around.

It's exaclty that. I am currently playing a acid-based wizard and I would like replay it as sorcerer (more spell points). As you have noticed so "Web" spell combines very well with lots of acid spells.

Mandatory spells as an earth savant:
- acid rain
- black dragon bolt
- cloudkill
- acid fog
- displacement
- stoneskin

Black dragon bolt is a good spell but to take it I have to give "Symbol of Death", that it's great also, but it's an option to consider.

Correct me if I am wrong but Acid fog don't stack with Cloudkill. In addition I don't love the effect "Obscures sight, giving all creatures in the fog concealment (Attackers have 20% miss chance)". My purpose it isn't to boost the mobs.

Master's Touch will help you through the low levels. Grab a great axe/greatsword and use master's touch, then swing away to your heart's delight for the first few levels. And, nightshield is superior to the shield spell, as it adds a bonus to saves early on and AC is practically useless to sorcerers beyond the first few levels.

Master's Touch is very fun with a Wizard but you don't use it a long time. I prefer take another spell with a sorcerer.
I don't use shield for AC but for another feature: This spell reduces Grazing Hit damage by 10%.

Ditch Otto's Resistible Dance, Slow, and Ray of Enfeeblement. None of these will help you much as a sorcerer, and both slow and ray are not even used by the majority of wizards. You can also do without greater heroism and true seeing. You can use these spells as scrolls to save a spell slot. Your role isn't to buff, so leave GH to wizards and use scrolls if somebody asks for it.

I select Slow in place of Haste because I plan to use Expeditious Retreat. Slow sound good because I can affect a lot of Mobs boosting by the way all others characters of the team. I don't understand why this spell it's not liked.

Without Spell Penetration Otto's Resistible Dance could be useless. I could replace it by Knock, always nice.
For the same reason Ray of Enfeeblement could be also take off but what take instead?

Energy Drain is a tough choice for sorcerers. You only have 3 level 9 spell slots, and 2 of them should go to meteor storm and wail of the banshee. Consider mass hold monster or power word: kill.

On the paper I don't like the meteor storm but a lot of players seems use it. 6d3+18 points of fire damage (with Reflex save to reduce the fire damage by half) and 2d3+6 points of bludgeoning damage (no save) to targets in the area. It isn't a lot of damage.

Why would you get reconstruct as a drow? If you're going to heal warforged, use reconstruct scrolls and save yourself a spell slot for something else, notably disintegrate.

It's just a mistake. At the first my build was for a Warforged.
With a Human, disintegrate sound good.

Break Enchantment is iffy, at best. Unless you have a lot of added caster-levels through items and epic destinies, this really isn't a smart choice for sorcerers, as there are more useful things to get, such as cone of cold. Let the spellsinger bards and wizards handle the breaking of enchantments.

The idea was to remove some curses on myself but perhaps I can use scroll in place of.

[HastyPudding]

In first, many thanks for your complete analyze. That will help me a lot to build the right sorcerer.



You are right. Without hesitation, I can take it now at the first level and forget "Greater Spell Penetration". As you, I think this feat is often great. It's just that this time I would like to do without it, but It' was probably a bad idea.
You're thinking about a wizard. There is a big difference between wizards and sorcerers in that sorcerers are built for damage, not crowd control, as they are not built for high DC casting like a wizard (nor do they have 5 extra feats to do so).


Warforged was my first build but I plan to play it with a friend having a Paladin, and the the healing will be more efficient if I avoid to take a warforged character. By the way I human is probably the bestg option in this particuliar situation.
Relying on your paladin friend for healing is, to say the least, not indicative of team play. Learn self-reliance, and your friend's healing should be for himself, as well. Him healing you and you not healing yourself in return is not a very good combination (unless said person is a cleric or FVS, designed to heal).


I haven't selected empower because without the enhancements of the Wizard reducing the cost of it I do not think it is profitable. I prefer cast 2 times the same spell to reduce the expanditure of my spell points. My idea is to focus on the ratio damage/spell points and not go to an ultimate DPS. But perhaps I am on the wrong way.

For the same reason I haven't selected Maximise (no enhancement to reduce it) but for any spell requiring at least 25pts the feat could be efficient.

In this philosophy acid spells are great.

Concerning the different savants, and after reflection, I cannot select Fire savant because I want to be able to use Ice spells (Frost Lance, Ice Storm, Niac's Biting Cold, Polar Ray). I could have the same problem with Water savant if I want to use few good Fire spells (mainly Firewall and delayed Fireball). Air savant could be an alternative but few electric spells are interresting : mainly Eladar's Electric Surge and perhaps also Lightning Bolt.
Spells of the Earth savant sound good for me : Melf's Acid Arrow, Acid Blast, Acid rain, cloudkill. I am more reserved with Acid fog.
Uhm, sorcerers get enhancements to lower the cost of empower, maximize, enlarge, heighten, and quicken. In fact, improved empower or improved maximize is a requirement for savant tier III at lvl 18. And again, you're thinking like a wizard, not a sorcerer; a sorcerer's primary focus is damage, and metamagic can be used on your spell-like abilities you get at lvl 6, 12, and 18 for no additional cost.

I would strongly urge you to get both maximize and empower. And once more, sorcerers are not about SP efficiency; they have high SP and faster casting speed for a reason, and that is to spend it on blasting their opponents with spells.


Spell penetration and Greater Spell penetration were there to let's me play my sorcerer as a backup controler. Have an idea of the DC to reach at lvl20 (True Reincarnation after that)?
Once again, you're thinking like a wizard. Sorcerers are not meant to be controllers or crowd control, as they simply do not have the DC capabilities of a wizard without extensive work, good gear, and past lives. It might seem fine at lower levels, but once you hit level 18+, sorcerers tend to drop off in terms of spell penetration and high DC casting.


Heighten is mainly for Web. Without it I am afraid that Web spell will be useless.
If you're going to use heighten for a single spell, it's not really worth the feat. The feat would be better spent in conjuration focus. Heighten is also not really useful on an earth savant, as they do not rely on DC's to deal damage (as opposed to fire or air savants). Heighten is useful on a WF due to their lack of customization with charisma, but on a human or drow, it isn't really necessary.


It's exaclty that. I am currently playing a acid-based wizard and I would like replay it as sorcerer (more spell points). As you have noticed so "Web" spell combines very well with lots of acid spells.
Stop thinking like a wizard, it's the largest flaw in your build. Web is arguably the best crowd control spell in the game; it ignores spell resistance, ignores evasion as it does not deal damage, and is strength-based to get out of it, not a commonly high stat for mobs. This is another reason heighten just isn't necessary.


Black dragon bolt is a good spell but to take it I have to give "Symbol of Death", that it's great also, but it's an option to consider.

Correct me if I am wrong but Acid fog don't stack with Cloudkill. In addition I don't love the effect "Obscures sight, giving all creatures in the fog concealment (Attackers have 20% miss chance)". My purpose it isn't to boost the mobs.
Seriously, stop thinking like a wizard. Black dragon bolt is an amazing spell. Other than acid blast, it's your best nuke (even as a DoT). Symbol of death uses spell resistance and is necromancy-based; two weaknesses of a sorcerer. You simply will not have the DC's to make it worth getting.

Acid cloud isn't a heavy hitter, yes, but still useful as it lasts a very long time. Cloudkill is by far the best of the two, but both have their uses. And both spells provide concealment.


Master's Touch is very fun with a Wizard but you don't use it a long time. I prefer take another spell with a sorcerer.
I don't use shield for AC but for another feature: This spell reduces Grazing Hit damage by 10%.
The good thing about sorcerers is you can change your spells once every 3 days at your trainer or use a dragon's blood and switch out any spells you want for 1 hour. The reduction of grazing hit damage is negligible, at best.


I select Slow in place of Haste because I plan to use Expeditious Retreat. Slow sound good because I can affect a lot of Mobs boosting by the way all others characters of the team. I don't understand why this spell it's not liked.

Without Spell Penetration Otto's Resistible Dance could be useless. I could replace it by Knock, always nice.
For the same reason Ray of Enfeeblement could be also take off but what take instead?
Slow, I repeat, is not a useful spell. The concept behind slow is nice, but in practice it just isn't feasible. You're thinking way too much like a wizard with crowd control. A mob doesn't need to move slower if its dead, that's how a sorcerer should look at it. And there are spells like mass hold and otto's irresistible dance that are far superior forms of crowd control than slow. Debuffs, in general, are not of much use in DDO as mobs don't stay alive long enough to get their full effect; crowd control is superior in almost every way than curses/debuffing.

Expeditious retreat only lasts until you can get 25-30% striding boots/rings. After that, there's no point in having it.

The idea of not getting haste is ludicrous. Haste is a mandatory spell for all arcane casters, as it helps both you and your party. If you don't get it, you'll find yourself being laughed out of groups and generally ignored. Your paladin friend will thank you for the buff.

Knock is an excellent spell to take. There really aren't a lot of useful level 1 spells, but ray of enfeeblement just isn't worth using as it's a debuff/curse.


On the paper I don't like the meteor storm but a lot of players seems use it. 6d3+18 points of fire damage (with Reflex save to reduce the fire damage by half) and 2d3+6 points of bludgeoning damage (no save) to targets in the area. It isn't a lot of damage.
In truth, the spell doesn't scale at all, but it can still amaze you with the damage it deals.


It's just a mistake. At the first my build was for a Warforged.
With a Human, disintegrate sound good.
I'd still consider going warforged if you're an earth savant. The two mesh together very nicely.


The idea was to remove some curses on myself but perhaps I can use scroll in place of.

My responses in red.

Wow.........

My number one thing is you need to stop thinking like a wizard. Wizards and sorcerers are markedly different in play style, and tactics that work on one sometimes aren't good on the other.

[ferrite]

I play a level 25 earth savant, and played through nearly all epic content. Here's my advice.

First problem, selection of race. You don't need the extra +2 cha for a blaster build. Heck you don't even need the +4, I'd go for the WF race, the ability to self-heal is just too critical to pass up. Sorcs are not DC dependent like a wizzy, they just blast thru stuff and mostly ignore saves altogether. Ditch the drow.

Second, now for the stats. Go ahead and max your Cha and Con. You may safely ignore the rest. If you want some strength or the bluff skill (which is a very good idea), you can take 2 away from the max Con and put 2 pts each in both Str and Int. You really only need bluff and concentration, bluff to pull mobs safely and the other to prevent interrupts. You don't need UMD, regardless of what anyone tells you, the sorc doesn't need it and its not a class skill anyway. With plenty of SP and a lot of firepower you'll almost never use scrolls or wands anyway, since you can self heal as a WF. As for the odd time you need to 'Raise Dead'.. that's what hirelings are for. I've played through a lot of Epic Elite raids and how many times did I need UMD? Zero. (now my bard is a totally different story, UMD is critical to his build, but thats the bard for you)

Third, feat selection looks good however I'd ditch these:

Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration

and instead take these:

Toughness
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness

Why? Well first you generally don't need Evocation for an ES build, since nearly all of the ES abilities are Conjuration. Second, you don't need the Spell Pen line of feats, its a complete waste for a Sorc. End game, none of the Sorc abilities allow for Spell Resistance. Not one. Again, for the wizzy and his wail its critical, but wasted slots on the Sorc.

So why take the Toughness feats? So you can qualify for.. drumroll.. Epic Toughness and Epic Mental Toughness! You can never have enough HP or SP in this game. Do this and you'll wind up with 600+ HP and 3500+ SP at endgame, of which is necessary to join many raid groups (HP is now the defacto ruler used to decide entry in a group, expect to be checked beforehand through myddo or whatnot). And with gobs of SP, a 10% discount at 3500 effectively nets you 350 SP, pretty much all feats combined or close to an Archmagi item. You'll never be hurting for SP like that poor wizzy, and can continue blasting away while he's scraping together what to do from some wonky scroll or wand that does 1/100 the damage you're doing.. yea that UMD investment really helped him now didn't it.. lmao

I won't bother commenting on Enhancements since you can change those easily as you play, but suit to taste here.

I agree with much of what others have said, but generally steer clear of any spell that requires a spell pen check and focus on damage spells instead (exception: mass suggestion)

You'll have loads of fun with the ES, good luck with it

[Serenei]

Here you are a new proposal for a Earth Savant Sorcerer (Warforged):

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Atheos Warforged_Earth
Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(20 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 252
Spell Points: 2003 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 5
Will: 10

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength              8                  8                    8
Dexterity             8                  8                    8
Constitution         18                 19                   20
Intelligence         14                 14                   14
Wisdom                6                  6                    6
Charisma             16                 23                   24

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               0                 10                   16
Bluff                 3                  7                    7
Concentration         8                 28                   28
Diplomacy             5                 18                   18
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                  7                    7
Heal                 -2                 -2                   -2
Hide                 -1                 -1                   -1
Intimidate            3                  7                    7
Jump                 -1                 -1                   -1
Listen               -2                 -2                   -2
Move Silently        -1                 -1                   -1
Open Lock            n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                  2                    2
Search                2                  2                    2
Spot                 -2                 -2                   -2
Swim                 -1                 -1                   -1
Tumble                0                  0                    0
Use Magic Device      5                 18                   18

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Shield
Spell (1): Magic Missile


Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (1): Jump
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Reconstructive Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation II


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow
Enhancement: Deadly Acid I
Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I


Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Web
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Conjuration
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant I


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (3): Acid Blast
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Acid Rain
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Force Manipulation I


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (2): Scorching Ray
Spell (3): Frost Lance
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Enhancement: Deadly Acid II
Enhancement: Mighty Reconstruction I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (5): Niac's Biting Cold
Enhancement: Deadly Acid III
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation V


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Spell (4): Stoneskin
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering III


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Spell (6): Reconstruct
Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant II
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VI


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (5): Cone of Cold
Spell (6): Acid Fog
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
Spell (6): Disintegrate
Spell (7): Prismatic Spray
Spell (5): Cyclonic Blast
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (8): Black Dragon Bolt
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing III


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (8): Polar Ray
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting V
Enhancement: Corrosive Spellcasting VI
Enhancement: Deadly Acid IV
Enhancement: Deadly Acid V


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Enhancement: Sorcerer Earth Savant III
Enhancement: Combustive Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Acid Manipulation VII


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistible Dance
Spell (9): Mass Hold Monster
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Spell (9): Meteor Swarm
Enhancement: Sorcerer Bloodline of Power
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III

Don't hesitate to tell me if something is yet wrong.

[Kinerd]

Spell penetration isn't going to help you much, either. Your main damaging spells in DDO do not use spell resistance, and sorcerers without wizard/favored soul past lives will have fairly low spell pen, anyway. The majority of sorcerers skip these two feats and get something else, as high spell penetration is usually left to wizards or sorcerers with a lot of past lives and really take advantage of crowd control spells; and as a sorcerer, your crowd control is eliminating the crowd. I would switch out spell penetration/greater spell penetration for spell focus/greater spell focus evocation.

While I agree that this is the convention, I disagree that it is the case anymore. 25 base + 8 feat is 33, throw in enhancements/gear/twists and you can easily get into the 40s. With u17 we're moving away from the all drow all the time endgame, so there's much less impetus to be able to 100% pass an EE drow priestess' SR. There are a lot of creatures that have some but not max SR: demons, devils, thickheaded drow, etc. The 2 extra feats in epic levels also greatly alleviate the cost in spending on spell pen, just look at what people are advocating instead, things like 1 DC, 50 HP.

Regarding DC in general, sorcerers are only 3 DC behind wizards in enhancements and 2 in feats. This is significant but not crippling when wizards can get to 95% success rate: that puts -5 DC at 70% success, and 70% of dead is still very very powerful especially when Wail neg levels on save. There are also many debuffs that have SR but no save: Energy Drain and Symbol of Death to name two.

.

Certainly self-healing is very important, though, we can all agree on that.

[tekkentroop]

the wf build looks a lot more viable, didnt check everything, though. Max and Empower are a must for a sorc, and Id still take heighten since its free on the SLAs (+6 dc on your acid blast SLA) and helps stuff like web and dancing balls if you really need them. Id take acid blast before displacement at lvl 6, you just want to get your main weapons as early as possible.