The end of DC-casting?

[Thrudh]

On a second thought, I think reducing EE mobs' all saves by 4-5 points will be the best and easiest solution.

Do you use debuff spells? Because you can lower EE mobs saves by a few points right now on your own instead of waiting for the devs to make the game easier for you.

[danlan]

Do you use debuff spells? Because you can lower EE mobs saves by a few points right now on your own instead of waiting for the devs to make the game easier for you.

Did you play at EE or at lease read the posts above? If not, please play EE and understand the points made in the posts above before making clueless comments.

[Lord_Thanatos]

Do you use debuff spells? Because you can lower EE mobs saves by a few points right now on your own instead of waiting for the devs to make the game easier for you.

What part of maxed out wizards requiring double Energy Drains to land any form of DC-based spell reliably, do you not understand?

[patang01]

Do you use debuff spells? Because you can lower EE mobs saves by a few points right now on your own instead of waiting for the devs to make the game easier for you.

It's not about making the game easier. It's about making sure that people who invest is a niche also performs okay in it. Right now I won't even bother with basic CC, it's a waste of time no matter how much I put in it. It's all DPS now which makes the game strongly tilted into one viable flavor only. And one of the reasons why I didn't like playing my CC wiz.

[fork_aka_spoon]

What part of maxed out wizards requiring double Energy Drains to land any form of DC-based spell reliably, do you not understand?

because its not true and people who are having trouble with it need to reroll. I've seen 59 web take care of everything in eecitw and ee high road, and a 51 enchant land on everything in ee high road.

[danlan]

because its not true and people who are having trouble with it need to reroll. I've seen 59 web take care of everything in eecitw and ee high road, and a 51 enchant land on everything in ee high road.

No you can not have 59 dc web sustainable by any means, unless you drink store & house d pot & abishai cookies and pretend it is sustainable.

There is a definitive difference between "landing" and "viable", especially so when soloing.

[fork_aka_spoon]

No you can not have 59 dc web sustainable by any means, unless you drink store & house d pot & abishai cookies and pretend it is sustainable.

There is a definitive difference between "landing" and "effective", especially so when soloing.

what are your dcs that you're saying aren't landing? either way i know im not wrong on what im saying since i run ee quests and raids daily including high road where you say max dc is failing and yet my guildy does it with dcs no where near max. and 59 can be sustainable, I can do the math if you want. with +5 tome and completionist you can have 61 sustainable. actually if you're going for web focus you can have 60 with just 3xcleric and a wiz pl

[Vordax]

what are your dcs that you're saying aren't landing? either way i know im not wrong on what im saying since i run ee quests and raids daily including high road where you say max dc is failing and yet my guildy does it with dcs no where near max. and 59 can be sustainable, I can do the math if you want. with +5 tome and completionist you can have 61 sustainable. actually if you're going for web focus you can have 60 with just 3xcleric and a wiz pl

Your guildy is probably not telling the complete truth, probably had used a shears of fate recently.

[fork_aka_spoon]

Your guildy is probably not telling the complete truth, probably had used a shears of fate recently.

*sigh. lets say WF wiz AM conjuration focus, and in my opinion a wizard should be nothing other than cc, and PMs just don't cut it anymore, not enough self healing.

10
23 modifier (can be higher)
9 (heighten)
+7 feat (3xfocus, wiz pl, 3xclr)
+2 twist
+3 from magister tree (unless you can't, i never actually checked this, if you can't then i retract what i said)
+3 item
+2 enhancement

=59

and you don't even need reliable cc for ee high road, i've run the chain multiple times on my cleric and guildy using esos barb blitzing. we have 2 manned the chain 5 or 6 times with no deaths. so if cc lands on half the mobs the healer better be able to keep the melee up.

I'm still very confused by this thread. CCing ee content (reliably) most likely will involve some PL grinding which I think is more than reasonable. If you want to run the most difficult content take the time to make yourself capable for it.

[Vordax]

*sigh

10
23 modifier (can be higher)
9 (heighten)
+7 feat (3xfocus, wiz pl, 3xclr)
+2 twist
+3 from magister tree (unless you can't, i never actually checked this, if you can't then i retract what i said)
+3 item
+2 enhancement

=59

and you don't even need reliable cc for ee high road, i've run the chain multiple times on my cleric and guildy using esos barb blitzing. we have 2 manned the chain 5 or 6 times with no deaths. so if cc lands on half the mobs the healer better be able to keep the melee up.

I'm still very confused by this thread.

Theoretically yes, but what idiot is going to build for a web DC only like that? Woot!!! I can be a web-bot! Fun! Fun! Fun! I stopped running my casters when the old epics required enchantment bots. I am finding that a 56 necro and 50 in other DCs, even with debuffs to not be that effective in EE high road, and epic GH seems to have upped the DC again.

[fork_aka_spoon]

Theoretically yes, but what idiot is going to build for a web DC only like that? Woot!!! I can be a web-bot! Fun! Fun! Fun! I stopped running my casters when the old epics required enchantment bots. I am finding that a 56 necro and 50 in other DCs, even with debuffs to not be that effective in EE high road, and epic GH seems to have upped the DC again.

why not make a web bot? it works. if ur building for 56 necro dc then you obviously (or most likely) won't be able to cc well, its just not doable. is the dc in ee high road lower than other servers or something? ive run through the chain with so many people who cc it easily. obviously its not going to land every single time as its not easy mode setting, its epic elite.

making a 55/55 dc caster is pretty simple too if you put time into it.

[Zerkul]

I don't think there should be any buffing to players DCs and Spell Penetrations. Things are fine like they are now.

The only thing that could improved the actual situation is to lower just a little the weak-saves of the mobs (let's say will for melees for example) in order to encourage casters finding the best spell to deal with 'em.

Right now, especially in high road EE, all mobs seems to have a good score in every save.

[fork_aka_spoon]

I don't think there should be any buffing to players DCs and Spell Penetrations. Things are fine like they are now.

The only thing that could improved the actual situation is to lower just a little the weak-saves of the mobs (let's say will for melees for example) in order to encourage casters finding the best spell to deal with 'em.

Right now, especially in high road EE, all mobs seems to have a good score in every save.

Not a bad idea, but I personally think it's fine how it is. This game would be insanely boring if you could just cc every single mob. I find running ee content without cc is a blast and a good way to improve at the game, whether you're a dps or healer. Yes high road is challenging to cc, but the overall difficulty for it is not there. I'm still trying to figure out what people are wanting, do you want every mob to be completely helpless so you can beat it down in mere seconds?

Make things more difficult please, not easier. Would be nice if you could customize the difficulty of a dungeon like challenges. Max level 15 or something, 1-5 enorm, 6-10 ehard, 11-15 ee or something like this and different scaling on each level.

[slimkj]

This... Anyone who plays this game that much is stating (in actions, which speak louder and truer than words) that there is nothing better out there to play.

Because if there was something more fun, they would be playing it, and not DDO.

Ergo... DDO is the best MMO out there for that person, regardless of what they post on these boards. Since actual reality does not match their statements on these boards, that should tell you how much credence to place in any of their other posts.

I see what you're getting at, and in an isolated environment where play time = enjoyment and there were no possible other factors, you'd be right, but it's not that straightforward. Compulsion can make people do things they don't really enjoy any more but feel they "have to" do, for example.

Edit: Not that I'm suggesting the game cater to that or change for it, just that play time shouldn't be taken as a barometer of joy felt. I've met plenty of people joylessly going through the motions on here, heh.

[danlan]

Not a bad idea, but I personally think it's fine how it is. This game would be insanely boring if you could just cc every single mob. I find running ee content without cc is a blast and a good way to improve at the game, whether you're a dps or healer. Yes high road is challenging to cc, but the overall difficulty for it is not there. I'm still trying to figure out what people are wanting, do you want every mob to be completely helpless so you can beat it down in mere seconds?

Make things more difficult please, not easier. Would be nice if you could customize the difficulty of a dungeon like challenges. Max level 15 or something, 1-5 enorm, 6-10 ehard, 11-15 ee or something like this and different scaling on each level.

I would not mind if EE becomes harder for ALL CLASSES, but currently spell dps have an obvious and unjustified advantage to spell dc on EE settings. Sorc/Shiradi with little gear/past lives can kill EE mobs more easily and efficiently than a DC wiz with the most past lives and best gears.

If dev doesn's want to increase player dc or reduce EE mob's saves, I think it is necessary to nerf spell dps to make it fair and justified. If that is the case, I would say doubling the spell cooldown on AM's evocation sla and/or all missile spells or even make shiradi's procs not working at all on offensive spells.

[Zerkul]

I would not mind if EE becomes harder for ALL CLASSES, but currently spell dps have an obvious and unjustified advantage to spell dc on EE settings. Sorc/Shiradi with little gear/past lives can kill EE mobs more easily and efficiently than a DC wiz with the most past lives and best gears.

If dev doesn's want to increase player dc or reduce EE mob's saves, I think it is necessary to nerf spell dps to make it fair and justified. If that is the case, I would say doubling the spell cooldown on AM's evocation sla and/or all missile spells or even make shiradi's procs not working at all on offensive spells.

The problem here is not spell DPS in general but the Shiradi's Spell DPS which is extremely reliable because most of the time doesn't involve a save check.

A 'normal' sorcerer with a DC of 54+ on evocation school will still suffer the DC problem we're talking about here if he uses standard spells like Meteor Swarm, Otiluke's Sphere, Chain Lightning, Fireballs etc... . Furthermore there are a lot more mobs with evasion in the expansion pack than everywhere else: reliably landing reflex-save spells is just happening in wonderland if you don't use debuffs.

[danlan]

The problem here is not spell DPS in general but the Shiradi's Spell DPS which is extremely reliable because most of the time doesn't involve a save check.

A 'normal' sorcerer with a DC of 54+ on evocation school will still suffer the DC problem we're talking about here if he uses standard spells like Meteor Swarm, Otiluke's Sphere, Chain Lightning, Fireballs etc... . Furthermore there are a lot more mobs with evasion in the expansion pack than everywhere else: reliably landing reflex-save spells is just happening in wonderland if you don't use debuffs.

That's exactly why I came up with the following comments:

"If that is the case, I would say doubling the spell cooldown on AM's evocation sla and all missile spells or even make shiradi's procs not working at all on offensive spells."

[slimkj]

Yeah! Nerf everything so everyone's equally frustrated! That's the way to a fun game...!

[bigolbear]

I don't think there should be any buffing to players DCs and Spell Penetrations. Things are fine like they are now.

The only thing that could improved the actual situation is to lower just a little the weak-saves of the mobs (let's say will for melees for example) in order to encourage casters finding the best spell to deal with 'em.

Right now, especially in high road EE, all mobs seems to have a good score in every save.

This, very much.

The solution to this problem is to lower the enemies WEAK saves only. And in my opinion to do so significantly.

[Zerkul]

Yeah! Nerf everything so everyone's equally frustrated! That's the way to a fun game...!

OFFTOPIC: Sorry for this slight offtopic, but i got a question for you, not aimed at anything or anyone in particular, that's just my line of tought.

Would you ever build a character on something which is not WAI?
This is my opinion: I wouldn't because something that is not WAI will one day be fixed by developers.

EDIT(sidenote): That's real life that can be frustrating, not a game.