THF barb or fighter?

[Soulfurnace]

I've spent a while searching forums, but every post I've found has critics, and I've never found a decisive answer..
For my next life I intend to go THF barb or fighter, but which is "better"? Or is a splash, such as 18/2 barb/fighter better?
I'll be 34 point, with +3 str and dext tomes, and a +2 int tome, with all races and most classes unlocked.
Any input is appreciated.

[Bumbaragum]

a decisive answer..

Barbarian.

[Soulfurnace]

Very decisive.. I swear I had "and why" somewhere in there, but okay.. Why pure barb over 18/2 barb/fighter split (or pure fighter for that matter)?

[Mastikator]

Better at what?

[firemedium_jt]

Never did pure melee but my kid is. Barbarians get the highest STR in the game that helps with stunning blow and improved sunder, by raging.

Barb18/FTR2 is just fine too. I would prob take the FTR2 at lvl19 and lvl20 cause the prestige frenzy 3 is nice. FTR is a great class to mix in and even go deeper with FTR6. Tons of builds on here if you search. Just find something you would like to play.

[Soulfurnace]

The reason I asked is because I can't decide which to play.. Both look fun, barbs with rage and hp, fighters with kensai and feats (and better tactics, I think?).. So, by better I guess I mean dps/tactics, and "basic" survivability (which is to say not falling down dead like my gimpy ranger, whenever a bat farts)
*Edit* I've been looking on other threads (I did say I was doing it) and I feel a THF fighter, not focusing on tactics, might be a safer choice (due to the fact I am, to a very large extent, a noob).

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 384
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 9
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    33
Dexterity            14                    17
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    14.5
Bluff                -2                     1
Concentration         3                     6
Diplomacy            -2                     1
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate           -2                     8
Jump                  6                    16
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  6                    11
Tumble                n/a                   4
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Kensei Maul Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Maul Mastery II
Enhancement: Kensei Maul Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Maul Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Maul Specialization II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

*edit* are these changes better? Am I missing anything painfully obvious?
*edit 2* He edited faster than I did lol

[Mastikator]

At lower level Cleave has a bigger effect than Two Handed Fighting feats, I'd take Cleave and Greater Cleave at level 6, and Power Attack at level 1.

I'd also replace a Toughness with Dodge too.

Edit- If I were you I'd take this feat route.
level 1, Power Attack, Cleave
level 2, Toughness
level 3, Stun
level 4, Greater Cleave
level 6, Weapon focus, Weapon Specialization
level 8, Improved Crit
level 9, Two Handed Fighting
level 10, Greater Weapon Focus
level 12, Improved Two Handed Fighting, Greater Weapon Specialization
level 14, Greater Two Handed Fighting
level 15, Dodge
level 16, power critical or mobility
level 18, toughness, superior weapon focus
level 20, improved sunder or precision

[boredman]

In my opinion, the point of doing a fighter over a barbarian is for more versality (with many past lives or tactic feats that cant fit on a barb) and self suficiency with umd, so i think the fighter 18/rogue 2 splash for evasion (with decent reflex saves) and umd skill for heal scrolls (with decent heal amp gear) would be a better choice, or a pure Half elf fighter with cleric dilly for heal scrolls usage. Otherwise, i think the Barbarian 18/fighter 2 is better for dps with almost the same self suficiency and stunning blow as a pure kensai fighter than cant self heal as well. (not talking about silver flame pots)

[Fedora]

Just asking (I'm no expert) but why the 14 DEX for a pure fighter with THF? You'll be wearing heavy armor and no evasion, no 2WF, max dex on heavy armor limitations, etc. I'd move dex down to 10 and bump up CON maybe.

[Soulfurnace]

In my opinion, the point of doing a fighter over a barbarian is for more versality (with many past lives or tactic feats that cant fit on a barb) and self suficiency with umd, so i think the fighter 18/rogue 2 splash for evasion (with decent reflex saves) and umd skill for heal scrolls (with decent heal amp gear) would be a better choice, or a pure Half elf fighter with cleric dilly for heal scrolls usage

Can you explain the cleric dilly to me? I looked up the heal spell, and it said you needed level 6 cleric, but I think dilly only counts as level 1. Assuming I went helf (as oppose to Horc) I'd lose a massive 4 str (build broken! lol), but I could get healing amp and human versatility? The rogue path would limit me to light armour/robes for evasion, as far as I know. Would that harm my (hoping for mid range) AC?

Just asking (I'm no expert) but why the 14 DEX for a pure fighter with THF? You'll be wearing heavy armor and no evasion, no 2WF, max dex on heavy armor limitations, etc. I'd move dex down to 10 and bump up CON maybe.

Er.. I was looking on a a different thread, and someone said 16 con and 14 dext might be better for reflex saves..
As is, my ranger with that tends to evade everything.. And he only has 14 base dext. That's easily changeable though, with a free LR if my reflex saves aren't helping enough. (half damage beats full, stupid casters)

[Axjl]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Dilettante

The dilettante can be upgraded through enhancements (not feats, you can unlock them at trainer) you receive at lvls 5,10 and 15. The third one makes you cast as if you were lvl 10 cleric which is enough for casting healing scrolls without fail.

[Meetch1972]

During my main's (dwarf) barb life, there was very little he couldn't brute force through and overwhelm. Pure for the capstone. Occasionally taking down the training dummy in one hit (without lightning strike!). 4.2k (physical) dmg adrenalised raged frenzied death frenzied, double madstoned, hasted, stunned mob madness!

A divine hireling that didn't do too much stupid (like trying to fight the dragon) could keep him alive with hjealz without trying too hard, because he tore through encounters like a hot knife through butter.

His fighter life is pretty good, and on paper he gets hit less - but he doesn't take 'em down as quickly. The best defense for him so far has been an overwhelming offense.

[Soulfurnace]

Oh, didn't remember about the enhancements, thanks for pointing that out ^^
Thinking that's what I'll do, thought not sure how I'll get the healing amp.. can anyone point out what a noob could get?

[unbongwah]

Barbarian
Pros: great DPS; lots of HPs (even w/out Toughness); +10% base run speed; barb DR to soften blows a bit; Improved Uncanny Dodge
Cons: feat-starved particularly if pure; AC goes from "lousy" to "pointless;" soaks up hits (and therefore heals) like a dry sponge; Rage blocks a lot of activities like casting spells, using scrolls or wands, and disarming traps

Fighter
Pros: lots of feats provide lots of customization options; Haste Boost (which will stack with human / HE Versatility - Dmg Boost); STR enhs; Power Surge & dmg / DC bonuses if Kensei; tanking bonuses if SD
Cons: lower STR than a fully Raged & Frenzied barb

The main drawback to both classes is low base Will & Reflex saves and no inherent self-sufficiency. To address the latter, here's an example of a HE Kensei w/cleric dilly as boredman describes:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 8
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    28
Dexterity            11                    14
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               13                    13
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Greatsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Kensei Greatsword Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Greatsword Specialization II
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV

Epic feats: Overwhelming Critical + 1 more

Doesn't give up any DPS, but she can self-buff & self-heal with divine wands & scrolls. Bumped up DEX partly to improve Reflex saves a bit, but mostly to grab Precision.

[Soulfurnace]

I really like the look of that build..
Only questions now, what gear should A. I get before I TR?
And B. What gear should I get when the helf gets to epics?
I don't have a ton of plat, tomes were just lootgen showing some love..
Thanks for all the advice given here so far