The Sirrush [Firstlife Barbarian Endgame Build]

[Ellihor]

Max saves, max umd, rogue levels, don't rage but scroll heal

Meh, or you tr to fighter and scroll heal

[Miow]

I think u greatly underestimate the DPS of a geared Jugg. The Manyshot with following melee outdpsses the barb by so much that no matter which fight u cant catch up.

If u make a DPS character currently that is not sorc/wiz/fvs in shiradi or a pure rogue and u dont have manyshot, well youre pretty much gimped because u pass on the biggest burst dps available.

The reasoning the barb has better sustained dps is pretty much weak nowadays, no fight really lasts long enough to bring this to any accounting.

I bet you one thing, 9 of these Barbs + 2 Healers + 1 Buffbot with haste/rage/blur/gh aka Bard will take twice as long for EE citw than 12 Juggs.

This just on a side note, it wasnt my intention to compare this build to a build like the juggernaut but since you brought it up im taking you on on any dps challenge you set.

Yup if you don't do everything with the flavor of the day you must be gimp....blah blah blah

You have really bad builds, really bad players but his build isn't bad at all it's just different then yours. Ask yourself will he do bad dps? Does he take damage mitigation into consideration? Attempt self healing and amp? Will this perform that badly as a build not comparing it yours?

your Juggernaut is really freaking good but his isn't bad at all it's good too. For a first life barb I'd rather see this one running around in droves then some the one we tend to see.

[Zerkul]

Armor: cormyrian redscale
Bracers: bracers of twisting shade
Gloves: claw
Trinket: gem of many facets
Goggles: tharnes/drow smoke goggles for humanoid
Necklace: wise +6 of mlee alacrity 10% LGA +20 hp
Belt: spare hand with goodluck +2 and strength +1
Ring 1: dun'robar with stun +10 and con +2
Ring 2: wathever tod +1 constituion +20% amp
Helm: pdk helm
Cloak: cloak of night because i didnt find something better (dodge stacks with ring, ghosly, deathblock, invis guard for sa)
Boots: dexterous +6 of greater false life
Weapon: no planar conflux so take that SoS again

pros/cos of this gear setup: stun +15, sunder and trip +5, resistance +2, -4 str, -6 damage per swing, -3 sa, -2 con, +10% atack speed, -3% doublestrike, no limbchopper/cursespwing, +3% dodge, deathblock, invi gurad, and you dont need to swap gear for saves. This would be used in a solo situtation, with arcane an divine id just go full ******.

Well i agree for the tactics, stun trip are always a good addition for melees. Probably i wouldn't splash a human barbarian, i'd simply go for Stunning Blow instead of Epic Toughness.

Assuming the Stunning Blow feat the gear list has to change indeed, any change though toward fitting stunning +10 will lower DPS.

... Anyway just asking, if the Cormyrian Redscale max dex is 7 how you'll benefit from that +3% dodge? Furthermore 10% attack speed doesn't stack with haste, i would keep it on a swap-able slot so you can kick it in when you don't want to use haste clickies/pots.

And yeah i agree with all the people who say scroll healing is for fighters. Rage gets in the way with scroll healing and it's something you can do usually out of combat, not during it. If you want to do it out of combat then there's no need to splash rogue to no-fail-scroll-heal: if you get some nice gear you can get up to +39 umd without splashing using some swap-able gear, out of combat of course.

[Lurzifer]

I have no problem with the build, its the statement thats its a first life ready for Epic elite content and not relying on Healers all the time, and thats just wrong.
I am sure the barb will destroy every en or eh quest easily even solo, but as far as EE goes, if the whole group consists of first life builds like this in different roles, u will most likely fail.

If you want to play EE with that kind of Character u need A. a decent healer and B. someone with exceptional CC abilities like a DC specced wizard or a shiradi sorc/wiz.

Barbarians deal a **** load of damage and its fun to play on in endgame, but the raids work different by now. And to think the reign of esos barbs in dps department would last forever, was wrong because its already over.

[Zerkul]

I have no problem with the build, its the statement thats its a first life ready for Epic elite content and not relying on Healers all the time, and thats just wrong.
I am sure the barb will destroy every en or eh quest easily even solo, but as far as EE goes, if the whole group consists of first life builds like this in different roles, u will most likely fail.

If you want to play EE with that kind of Character u need A. a decent healer and B. someone with exceptional CC abilities like a DC specced wizard or a shiradi sorc/wiz.

Barbarians deal a **** load of damage and its fun to play on in endgame, but the raids work different by now. And to think the reign of esos barbs in dps department would last forever, was wrong because its already over.

Lurzifer i'll try to be direct, because this discussion is going too much further and offtopic.

I soloed a lot of quests on Epic Elite with my Fighter Stalwart Defender using that kind of saves you say are auto-fail because after 40+ just each point you get a 5% of extra save etc. like you said.

The saves level you are talking about are a thing that only 'some' builds with paladin/monk splashes or some particular feats selection (like force of personality, insightful reflexes, resilience etc.) can achieve. A resistance +5/+7 on a barbarian build will not make that much difference: it will make a difference though some good elemental absorption gear to backup weak reflexes, some good immunities gear to get rid of hold monsters, greater command... even some good spell absorption gear to situationally avoid the auto-fail on ottospheres of dancing and other crowd control like that.

What i want to say to you is that even with auto-fail saves, there are lots of situation where 'normal' builds guided by smart people knows when to and where to use spell absorption items or simply go swap some twists for more solid-save setups or equip elemental absorption gear.

[mrphlegm]

You're underestimating sf pots lurzifer, they are a massive easy button... Just keep fom boots and prot from evil on and saves don't matter much.. I took 3 or 4 fire elementals head on when i was soloing ee spies in the house on my barb though i've got some fire absorb gear. The few dangerous spells i can think of is cometfall, earthquake, flesh to stone (maybe). Yugoloth casters perhaps with all their ottos/sos spam, more annoying then dangerous.. This isnt a large portion of the game though and in most cases casters will be perma cc'ed with stun/trip/adrenaline.

[Lurzifer]

They used to be a massive easy button. But i am talking about the changes to raids we have seen and are about to see on the next updates, tank and spank action is over. I doubt there will be another kind of raid like tod or vod or chrono where one person tanks and the rest just beats on the boss without being noticed once.

There will be always cometfalls, earthquakes, dispells followed by mass hold greater command etc.
It wouldnt hurt to carry a specific item setup that boosts your saves to oblivion just incase even if that means youre doing 10 dmg less per hit, still better than none.

I had this discussion earlier, that this is a team based game and players with characters being able to solo should go an play another game, well why should i drive a VW golf with 80 HP if i could drive a BMW X6 with 450 HP for the same money? Crippling yourself to stay in the "im a group char" type of character isnt productive.

[Zerkul]

They used to be a massive easy button. But i am talking about the changes to raids we have seen and are about to see on the next updates, tank and spank action is over. I doubt there will be another kind of raid like tod or vod or chrono where one person tanks and the rest just beats on the boss without being noticed once.

There will be always cometfalls, earthquakes, dispells followed by mass hold greater command etc.
It wouldnt hurt to carry a specific item setup that boosts your saves to oblivion just incase even if that means youre doing 10 dmg less per hit, still better than none.

I had this discussion earlier, that this is a team based game and players with characters being able to solo should go an play another game, well why should i drive a VW golf with 80 HP if i could drive a BMW X6 with 450 HP for the same money? Crippling yourself to stay in the "im a group char" type of character isnt productive.

If i wanted to post the oblivion do it all super mega uber build completionist with countless pastlives i would have made a Zenarcher.

EDIT: What's so special about Nightmare? Phantasmal Killer? Why a Cormyrian Khopesh with Life Stealing should be less DPS than this weapon?

[zwiebelring]

They used to be a massive easy button. But i am talking about the changes to raids we have seen and are about to see on the next updates, tank and spank action is over. I doubt there will be another kind of raid like tod or vod or chrono where one person tanks and the rest just beats on the boss without being noticed once.

There will be always cometfalls, earthquakes, dispells followed by mass hold greater command etc.
It wouldnt hurt to carry a specific item setup that boosts your saves to oblivion just incase even if that means youre doing 10 dmg less per hit, still better than none.

I had this discussion earlier, that this is a team based game and players with characters being able to solo should go an play another game, well why should i drive a VW golf with 80 HP if i could drive a BMW X6 with 450 HP for the same money? Crippling yourself to stay in the "im a group char" type of character isnt productive.

Attitude discussions about BYOH do not apply to epic elite. In epic elite you want to have SF pot.s, because you might really need them in emrgency situations. You die so fast that not even the best healer on the server may save you. You can be dead within 1 second and 1 moment of not paying attention. That has become vital in epic elite.

Since it is a teambased game, a mistake of one member can have a wipe as a result. SF pot.s can be the needed 1 or 2 seconds till the healer throws you a heal. Emphasizing 'can'. Good cc prevents that. But good means best in epic elite.

@OP
Funny, my 1st life Barbarian uses the exact same ideas of your build. Though I plan on sacrificng the planar conflux set, because I don't see a benefit in sets, if I cannot use them permanently.

And I'd like to give a suggestion about a weapon, you did not include in the OP. The challenges greataxe. I use it for high fort./crit. immune mobs. The fire dmg. proc.s pretty frequently.

I splashed 2 levels of Ftr, though, so I can use Stunning Blow + Improved Sunder for indirect SB DC boosting. Together with CiTW axe it is a potentially -7 on saves. I have cc by using Momentum Swing + Lay Waste + Cleave attacks, which ends up pretty often in 2-3 permanently tripped mobs.

Since this build is very similar to my Barb I'd like to ask some opinions about the gear setup and need some detailed advice.

Do yo consider Claw set as mandatory? Bracers are 30% h.amp. + sup. parrying to guarantee maximum heal amp. Boots are upgraded madstones. In main destiny I can reach 76 STR under ideal conditions. Gloves are PDk or +6% doublestrike. I thought that +6% doublestrike is a better dps increase than having 76 STR for 2 min., so I sacrifice some points and rely on IS + SB + Improved Cursespewing by the raid axe.

Swapping slots are cloak (Bear cloak and Drow Pwyfblablubb + several superior resistances) and necklace (Health + Major Luck as default) for guards and saves.

[Zerkul]

Attitude discussions about BYOH do not apply to epic elite. In epic elite you want to have SF pot.s, because you might really need them in emrgency situations. You die so fast that not even the best healer on the server may save you. You can be dead within 1 second and 1 moment of not paying attention. That has become vital in epic elite.

Since it is a teambased game, a mistake of one member can have a wipe as a result. SF pot.s can be the needed 1 or 2 seconds till the healer throws you a heal. Emphasizing 'can'. Good cc prevents that. But good means best in epic elite.

@OP
Funny, my 1st life Barbarian uses the exact same ideas of your build. Though I plan on sacrificng the planar conflux set, because I don't see a benefit in sets, if I cannot use them permanently.

And I'd like to give a suggestion about a weapon, you did not include in the OP. The challenges greataxe. I use it for high fort./crit. immune mobs. The fire dmg. proc.s pretty frequently.

I splashed 2 levels of Ftr, though, so I can use Stunning Blow + Improved Sunder for indirect SB DC boosting. Together with CiTW axe it is a potentially -7 on saves. I have cc by using Momentum Swing + Lay Waste + Cleave attacks, which ends up pretty often in 2-3 permanently tripped mobs.

Since this build is very similar to my Barb I'd like to ask some opinions about the gear setup and need some detailed advice.

Do yo consider Claw set as mandatory? Bracers are 30% h.amp. + sup. parrying to guarantee maximum heal amp. Boots are upgraded madstones. In main destiny I can reach 76 STR under ideal conditions. Gloves are PDk or +6% doublestrike. I thought that +6% doublestrike is a better dps increase than having 76 STR for 2 min., so I sacrifice some points and rely on IS + SB + Improved Cursespewing by the raid axe.

Swapping slots are cloak (Bear cloak and Drow Pwyfblablubb + several superior resistances) and necklace (Health + Major Luck as default) for guards and saves.

Technically +4 damage is worth 7 points of average damage on a Cleaver (19-20/x9). A Netherese Grasp EE is almost as good: 5.35 per hit on average (given you haven't profane strength anywhere else and assuming +4 seeker because in this build you have +6 on ring). So if you want to dump the Claw set you can go for that. So no Claw set is not mandatory but it is the best damage-wise solution for sure.

I'd like to see your gearlist if possible, here or maybe in PM if you don't want to post it.

You know i talk like a profane barbarian user since i've done only 5 barbarian lives among my characters and i only played few of them in endgame (my friend's account). Beside saves i always found barbarians squishie in melee, even if they usually have high HPs. That's why i tried to fit a decent amount of Dodge, PRR and Incorporeal as well in the gear.

EDIT: Just tested Cleaver (with Prowess Set) VS EAGa VS Epic Elemental Greataxe of Fire (with +7 enhancement bonus slotted) in a 100% fortification situation with 0 elemental resistance. Looks like Cleaver wins in all situation even if we assume that you have +6% doublestrike somewhere else with EAGa and EEGF. I used DDO wiki data for Greater Incineration and Magma Surge.
EDIT: Regarding above test, in case Phlebotomizing doesn't work EEGF wins on 100% fort mobs .

[Ellihor]

... Anyway just asking, if the Cormyrian Redscale max dex is 7 how you'll benefit from that +3% dodge?Furthermore 10% attack speed doesn't stack with haste, i would keep it on a swap-able slot so you can kick it in when you don't want to use haste clickies/pots.

I really dont. I wrote that in 10 mins and forgot barbs get bonus dodge just for being barb. Anyways that cloak is only there because i couldnt find something better (could move ghostly to boots and try to put false life somewhere else). About the alacity thing, thats more because rage lasts longer than what a haste usually do, if you dont like it, use a golden guile with +6 wis.

Edit: the golden guile would solve the cloak trouble with ghostly too.

[DarkForte]

A few points...

1. There's pretty much nothing new on the build itself. I like the discussion on the gearset though.
2. Why no eSoS?

[Zerkul]

2. Why no eSoS?

Autocleave attack chain type or even cleave spamming makes Cleaver stronger than eSoS and Epic Antique Greataxe close enough to it under dreadnought destiny. Cleaver is a very underestimated weapon, just because people haven't been able to figure the real impact of +weapon damage mechanic on the effective DPS.

I really dont. I wrote that in 10 mins and forgot barbs get bonus dodge just for being barb. Anyways that cloak is only there because i couldnt find something better (could move ghostly to boots and try to put false life somewhere else). About the alacity thing, thats more because rage lasts longer than what a haste usually do, if you dont like it, use a golden guile with +6 wis.

Edit: the golden guile would solve the cloak trouble with ghostly too.

Good observation about the 10% alacrity.

[HalfORCastrator]

One, light Red is better than medium red. The dodge chance(mdb 15) is better than the PRR increase(~+3% mitigation).

Two, for epic elites, if you're not focusing somewhat on tactics(trip+stun) then you're doing it wrong. Being able to stun or trip much more reliably is much better than 5-10 damage. Hell, Stunning Blow over Epic Toughness would be much better for survivability AND damage.

Third, at the very least you should make sure you can reach 40+ reflex save with some setup. Dropping con by 2(16base) for 6 dex would help in that situation.

dex: 14base+4tome+12EEtreadsandexc+2ship=32=11dexbonus
ref save: 6base+4gh+4superiorparrying+6resistance+2bracetwis t+6magistertwist+11dex+1haste+2goodluck=42(+6 uncanny)

con: 16base+4tome+7item+2ins+1exc+8mightyrage+3hardyrag e+1enh+2fbset+2ship=46
hp: 450con+240barb+50epiclvls+20heroic+10argo+27toughn ess+40toughnessenhs+30gfl+20toughnessitem+60LD=947 (+5scream+1conenh=+75 more hp, +10superior fl, +20toughness enhs=1052)

[zwiebelring]

@zerkul
You got mail. I am basically wondering about how to keep the defenses while improving the dps.

EDIT: Regarding above test, in case Phlebotomizing doesn't work EEGF wins on 100% fort mobs

For those exact mobs I am using doublestrike 6% + EGAoF. But I will craft me a 3xPos as well. On ee the hp of mobs is so inflated that I appreciate every instant kill effect like Greater Disruption. For Drow Souls especially and all Necromancer/Netherese Arcanist summons.

[Zerkul]

One, light Red is better than medium red. The dodge chance(mdb 15) is better than the PRR increase(~+3% mitigation).

Two, for epic elites, if you're not focusing somewhat on tactics(trip+stun) then you're doing it wrong. Being able to stun or trip much more reliably is much better than 5-10 damage. Hell, Stunning Blow over Epic Toughness would be much better for survivability AND damage.

Third, at the very least you should make sure you can reach 40+ reflex save with some setup. Dropping con by 2(16base) for 6 dex would help in that situation.

dex: 14base+4tome+12EEtreadsandexc+2ship=32=11dexbonus
ref save: 6base+4gh+4superiorparrying+6resistance+2bracetwis t+6magistertwist+11dex+1haste+2goodluck=42(+6 uncanny)

con: 16base+4tome+7item+2ins+1exc+8mightyrage+3hardyrag e+1enh+2fbset+2ship=46
hp: 450con+240barb+50epiclvls+20heroic+10argo+27toughn ess+40toughnessenhs+30gfl+20toughnessitem+60LD=947 (+5scream+1conenh=+75 more hp, +10superior fl, +20toughness enhs=1052)

I'll review the equipment and introduce stunning blow into the build when i got some time (hope soon). Though of course this probably will mean less DPS.

About the armor yeah assuming you can fill the dodge percentage, light is better than medium. I used medium armor in order to dedicate other items to damage so i had to worry less about the dodge cap.

@zerkul
You got mail. I am basically wondering about how to keep the defenses while improving the dps.


For those exact mobs I am using doublestrike 6% + EGAoF. But I will craft me a 3xPos as well. On ee the hp of mobs is so inflated that I appreciate every instant kill effect like Greater Disruption.

I tried to PM you but you have it disabled i think. Your equipment doesn't cap the dodge bonus on the armor, you don't have stun+10 item in it and your saves still more or less the same as the build in the first post ...tried to make a summary lol .

[HalfORCastrator]

I'll review the equipment and introduce stunning blow into the build when i got some time (hope soon). Though of course this probably will mean less DPS.

About the armor yeah assuming you can fill the dodge percentage, light is better than medium. I used medium armor in order to dedicate other items to damage so i had to worry less about the dodge cap.

(completely ignoring the survivability) You think that that bit of extra damage outpaces 50% more on a mob every few secs? edit: And the addition of party dps...

As for dodge: 6% uncanny passive+4wolf cloak=10% already. With something with 3% dodge or magister twist that's 13%.

[zwiebelring]

Yeah, I think I disabled some things, but unchecked.... I'll check again, send again, if you like .

I sacrificed Stunning +10 item aka Dun'Robar for slot consolidation by Stalker Ring and defenses of both, FB set with heal amp. + ghostly of Stalker.

Since on Orien everybody still sticks to fast cokpletions and I was not lucky on ehard farmings myself I pretty much gave up on that stupid ring. If I could get me one I used Tread boots and that ring instead of Stalker. But with new slot options coming up, The yellow slot looks pretty good again. I hate the burden of choice!

Instead I rely on Improved Sunder + Hewer debuff for increasing my SB DC. That works, though almost all tactical options have to be spent for one mob. In case of a caster mob it is fine, they rarely saved. Melee mobs are annoying though and I have to rely on Trip and/or Lay Waste. Else, I only have 3 Tier 1 Twists available, so Grim Precision or Sense Weakness is no option atm.

The problem is not, what is missing, I want to increase direct dps by sacrificing nothing like the Bracers, if possible. I fear that Claw Set might be the best choice over all :/.

[HalfORCastrator]

Right, I completely forgot about Sense Weakness.

[Zerkul]

(completely ignoring the survivability) You think that that bit of extra damage outpaces 50% more on a mob every few secs? edit: And the addition of party dps...

As for dodge: 6% uncanny passive+4wolf cloak=10% already. With something with 3% dodge or magister twist that's 13%.

I know stunning blow is useful, i have it on my fighter and i always use it, but to make it work you need to invest on it equipment-wise and as well build-wise.

Though, forgive my ignorance, how much do ee mobs last when hit by such high DPS?