Update 17: Event #3 - Epic Gianthold Adventure Area

[SqueakofDoom]

Have you wondered about something while frolicing through the Epic Gianthold Adventure Area? ("Why is that one Dragon a little plump? Is it because he just ate a Giant?") Do you want to chat with the developer who made many of the changes to the wilderness?

ChainsawGolem will be dropping by to say "hello," answer questions, and chat! Join us right outside the Adventure Area on the following day and time.

Tuesday, January 22nd from 7:00pm to 9:00pm

All times are Eastern (GMT-5)

Smiles,
Squeak

[Buttkierownsmade]

Well since he is a dev, is he allowed to give out stuff?? because its event #3 also, anyways ill be there!

[Munkenmo]

i won't be able to make it to this due to timezone differences and work commitments.

Could someone please ask why there's still no shrine down by maze of madness, trial by fire, and madstone crater?

All the other flagging quests have shrines somewhere near by.

[UurlockYgmeov]

I plan on being there - as long as I am mostly not dead. (or stuck in the gullet of a dragon!)

I'm not dead yet! Feeling much betta!

[stoopid_cowboy]

i won't be able to make it to this due to timezone differences and work commitments.

Nor will I...

Squeak, could you just for once consider using a time frame that would allow a larger amount of the of the player base to participate???? I know it is more convenient for you to have the event right after Turbine office hours. However, is that the best timeslot to use? It is the middle of the night for Europe and middle of the day for West Coasters. The busiest Llama events I have seen were done on the weekends mid morning EST.

thanks
yuda

[Crazy-Freddy]

Hey ya Squeaks,
Can we get the AH stocked with a good level range of items? Say level 7 on up? Also can you put Tomes on the AH? That event when you gave them out was a Cluster Nightmare.

[4tonmantis]

Hey ya Squeaks,
Can we get the AH stocked with a good level range of items? Say level 7 on up? Also can you put Tomes on the AH? That event when you gave them out was a Cluster Nightmare.

Agreed.. someone snatched up the int tomes and was listing them on the AH for 100k each. My rogue and wizzy are not happy :/

[Buttkierownsmade]

Squeak..... The Guide is gone.... WERE DID HE GO?!?! NOOOO!!!

[Avocado]

How about bringing back Event #1 again for a few days? Now that i have had time to try the raid i want to try it on other toons that arent a high enough level yet.

[sirgog]

Can't make it (timezone works but I'm busy), but a couple of questions anyway.


1) Mob density. Heroic Ruins of Gianthold (RoG) has an extremely low number of mobs for such a vast area. I noticed mob density is a little higher in eRoG but it still seems low. Working as intended or not?

2) XP awards. Other than the Demonweb (and in certain carefully crafted group compositions, Vale or Orchard), explorer areas are notorious for having extremely poor XP per minute awards. Given most epic normal quests generally award the zerger 2000-3000xp per minute and the non-zerger ~1200-1500 for comparable difficulty content, would you agree that XP awards in this wilderness are a little anemic?

3) Rare encounters. Only eight?

4) Mob HP. Giants IMO should have 3-4 times the HP of hobgoblins, they seem to instead have 1.2-1.4 times the HP. To me this breaks immersion a little. If the current figures are 2200 (hobgobs) and 3000 (giants), any chance you could revise this to a more immersive 1200/4000? Overall difficulty should remain about constant.

5) Mob use of CC. There's quite a lot more anti-player CC in eRoG than in any other explorer area, making this IMO the most solo-unfriendly explorer area other than the non-scaling raid ones. Is this intended to be a group-oriented area (like the not very popular Subterrane or the LOB/MA preraids) or a solo-friendly area? I'm not fussed myself as I only solo on fairly minmaxxed characters, don't farm explorer areas and had no trouble in eRoG solo, but I'm assuming your audience for eRoG is the most casual of high level players.

6) Do the dragons in the area drop dragonscales? If so, are the rates comparable to Epic Normal quests (generally ~10-20% drop rates outside the probably broken rates in epic Tor)? If not, please fix this (and do so for the King's Forest dragons too).

[SqueakofDoom]

Here are the answers to your posted questions:

Has the Flagging for Heroic TOR also been changed?

• Yes. It now matches the flagging for Epic TOR.

Could someone please ask why there's still no shrine down by maze of madness, trial by fire, and madstone crater? All the other flagging quests have shrines somewhere near by.

• A pair of shrines has been added to the area! Another pair of shrines has been added near the Prison of the Planes entrance as well.

Mob density. Heroic Ruins of Gianthold (RoG) has an extremely low number of mobs for such a vast area. I noticed mob density is a little higher in eRoG but it still seems low. Working as intended or not?

• We are considering increasing the mob density slightly. However this change will not be drastic.

XP awards. Other than the Demonweb (and in certain carefully crafted group compositions, Vale or Orchard), explorer areas are notorious for having extremely poor XP per minute awards. Given most epic normal quests generally award the zerger 2000-3000xp per minute and the non-zerger ~1200-1500 for comparable difficulty content, would you agree that XP awards in this wilderness are a little anemic?

• The XP in Epic Ruins of Gianthold should be comparable to other epic wildernesses, and is higher than the heroic wilderness. However, if you see heroic XP numbers while running through the epic wilderness, please bug it!

Rare encounters. Only eight?

• Yes. There are eight Rare Encounters. However there are also four Gianthold Random Encounters.

Mob HP. Giants IMO should have 3-4 times the HP of hobgoblins, they seem to instead have 1.2-1.4 times the HP. To me this breaks immersion a little. If the current figures are 2200 (hobgobs) and 3000 (giants), any chance you could revise this to a more immersive 1200/4000? Overall difficulty should remain about constant.

• Giants vary in strength, and some have less HP than others. Having said that, if any giants are spawning with heroic CR’s, that’s a problem. (And if you encounter enemies with Heroic CR in an Epic area, please bug it!)

Mob use of CC. There's quite a lot more anti-player CC in eRoG than in any other explorer area, making this IMO the most solo-unfriendly explorer area other than the non-scaling raid ones. Is this intended to be a group-oriented area (like the not very popular Subterrane or the LOB/MA preraids) or a solo-friendly area? I'm not fussed myself as I only solo on fairly minmaxxed characters, don't farm explorer areas and had no trouble in eRoG solo, but I'm assuming your audience for eRoG is the most casual of high level players.

• This is being addressed. We know that the mob’s use of CC is problematic. We will be tweaking the giants to make fighting them more fun.

Do the dragons in the area drop dragonscales? If so, are the rates comparable to Epic Normal quests (generally ~10-20% drop rates outside the probably broken rates in epic Tor)? If not, please fix this (and do so for the King's Forest dragons too).

• Dragonscales still only drop in select locations. Gianthold Tor remains the only quest in Gianthold that drops Dragonscales (Blue, Black, and White in Heroic Tor and Flawless Blue, Black, and White in Epic Tor.)

[Nibor]

2) XP awards. Other than the Demonweb (and in certain carefully crafted group compositions, Vale or Orchard), explorer areas are notorious for having extremely poor XP per minute awards. Given most epic normal quests generally award the zerger 2000-3000xp per minute and the non-zerger ~1200-1500 for comparable difficulty content, would you agree that XP awards in this wilderness are a little anemic?

You're aware there's a single, hard-coded formula for all XP in wilderness zones? Explores are worth 100+(lvl-1)*25 xp, with epic areas getting a 3x multiplier, for example. Demonweb is likely considered better because of the high density of explores; there are 40, the same number as in King's Forest, in a lot smaller area. The "random pop" rare encounters in King's Forest, High Road, and eGianthold are individually crafted xp, but explores and slayers are hard-coded to the formula.

Changing that formula is probably beyond the scope of U17 at this point, and honestly I doubt they touch it.

[sirgog]

Thanks for the responses.

The mobs I saw all had standard challenge ratings for epic normal level 24 content (~24 for most of them, ~28 for some of the tougher giants, ~30 IIRC for rare encounters).

I still think you should reconsider some of the hitpoints, however. Historically you've been able to do this without adjusting mob CR or other abilities (e.g. Frost Giants in Refuge having their HP halved in Update 9, ditto all 'old epic' trash mobs). It just breaks immersion somewhat that the Stone Giants aren't much more durable than the trash hobgoblins.

(Of course true elite hobgoblins, who should be orange or red named, can and do buck this trend).

[sirgog]

Edit: Oh and on XP, the reason the Demonweb is quite lucrative for XP is that the explorer points are plentiful, close to each other, and mob density is high. Orchard is somewhat similar but not quite as good.

Using set formulae to determine XP for content simply does not work.

[Reymouth]

I'm usually very good at finding the explores and such in the wilderness areas but #8 of the Truthful One's Teachings has got me stumped! I have searched, and searched, and then went back 10 more times to search again and yet it still eludes me! HELP PLEASE!!!!

Pretty please with sugar on top?

No, really, seriously..... it's driving me crazy!!!

Oh, and how do you get the Heroic Commendations? I'v done all 4 of the random encounters and all 8 of the rares and have not received any yet.

[Grosbeak07]

I'm usually very good at finding the explores and such in the wilderness areas but #8 of the Truthful One's Teachings has got me stumped! I have searched, and searched, and then went back 10 more times to search again and yet it still eludes me! HELP PLEASE!!!!

Pretty please with sugar on top?

No, really, seriously..... it's driving me crazy!!!

Oh, and how do you get the Heroic Commendations? I'v done all 4 of the random encounters and all 8 of the rares and have not received any yet.

Commendations I believe only drop in the Raid, like they do in Eveningstar.

[SqueakofDoom]

Yup. Commendations only drop in the Raid.

Also, the 8th Truthful One message can be found: (WARNING: SPOILERS)
There is a Lava "waterfall" and a Crystalized Dragon and Giant to the Northwest of the Madstone Crater quest entrance. The Truthful One's Teaching #8 is on the ledge at the top of the waterfall. I had to jump up the Dragon's wing to reach it.

[Texlaw1992]

Finally found Truthful One #8.

Now, can someone tell me when I can find Truthful One #7? That's the only one I'm missing.

[prusno]

Update 17??? i think it's better call HOTFIX 17.

Disgiuse a Hotfix for a Update, ever more disappointed by the turbine

[Reymouth]

I would NEVER have found #8 without that help.... with it being sooooo close to #7 I was looking no where near there to find it. (Texlaw... you can see 7 from 8)

@ prusno.... Can't disagree with you more on that statement bud. Adding the Epic level to GH doesn't even come close to a HOTFIX since "FIX" denotes fixing something that exists and is broken. Epic lvl GH NEVER existed, therefore wasn't "fixed".