Sithali, King of Burst DPS (12Mnk/6Rgr/2Ftr)

[Alternative]

Essentially, I am dropping OC for +15 saves.

where does that +15 number come from, are you going to have 40 charisma on that already mad build? or did you mean +10 with 30ish cha?

[K_0tiC]

What is your cocoon healing for each tick? Is scroll healing that bad to make you loose haste boost? I just think from the first build to now splashing paladin you dropped a lot of dps in favor to survavility. Talking about the build with OC, isnt it better to charge blitz with cleaves at entrace of quest then change to bow isntead of staying in FoTW?

Both are situational once you know the quests well enough, you get to know if it's more spaced out smaller fights/raids. For those you will want to be running fotw, but for long drawn out things with many mobs say EE detour/arena challenges you want ld blitz running. Just remember that quests with portals/load screens means you lose your blitz and its a pain to get it built in EE got to prep some mobs before killing them to get you a good 4+ stack going or it will burn out before you clear the next lot. Another thing I like about blitz is I can easily whip out sireth and still drop 2k-3k crits cleaving/momentum/laywaste when both things are on timer for that 30second gap to keep the blitz going and the dps up.

Personally have not even bothered with cacoon I think I've died maybe 5times in tonnes of EE quests due to failing a scroll/not sf potting in time, but I only run lesser sf pots the slow down really hurts a ranged toon alot.

[Symerith]

What is your cocoon healing for each tick? Is scroll healing that bad to make you loose haste boost? I just think from the first build to now splashing paladin you dropped a lot of dps in favor to survavility. Talking about the build with OC, isnt it better to charge blitz with cleaves at entrace of quest then change to bow isntead of staying in FoTW?

Honestly, my heal amp was pretty low so roughly 30-50 a tick. The big thing with cocoon is the 150 hitpoints granted.. think of it as a lay on hands. It's good for protection and heals between fights.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "scroll healing that bad to make you loose haste boost". Are you talking about the 2 paladin splash vs 2 fighter or Haste boost twisted vs Cocoon?

As you said, it's less DPS in favor to survivability. But once again, what I do shouldn't reflect what all AA do for the simple reason that I run a lot of EE content without healers and I often have the aggro. In a different situation.. OC would be preferable.
You can also keep OC but sacrifice rogue dillie for the paladin dilletance, and work towards having mid 50's saves.

where does that +15 number come from, are you going to have 40 charisma on that already mad build? or did you mean +10 with 30ish cha?

32 charisma so (32-10)/2=+11 saves.
The +15 number comes from the +4 insight saves from Greater convalescent bracers of sup parrying. I was using +45 hp bracers, but decided to remove it in favor of extra saves.

[Ellihor]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "scroll healing that bad to make you loose haste boost". Are you talking about the 2 paladin splash vs 2 fighter or Haste boost twisted vs Cocoon?

As you said, it's less DPS in favor to survivability. But once again, what I do shouldn't reflect what all AA do for the simple reason that I run a lot of EE content without healers and I often have the aggro. In a different situation.. OC would be preferable.
You can also keep OC but sacrifice rogue dillie for the paladin dilletance, and work towards having mid 50's saves.

I am saying about both. First build had OC and haste boost 30%. Then you dropped haste boost to 15% to get cocoon. Now in u17 you dropped haste boost to 0% and also lost OC. I think its just to much less dps lost in favor to survavility. I think when i build my monkcher ill do 12mnk/6rgr/2art with paladin dilletante and OC, haste boost twisted instead of cocoon.

[Symerith]

I am saying about both. First build had OC and haste boost 30%. Then you dropped haste boost to 15% to get cocoon. Now in u17 you dropped haste boost to 0% and also lost OC. I think its just to much less dps lost in favor to survavility. I think when i build my monkcher ill do 12mnk/6rgr/2art with paladin dilletante and OC, haste boost twisted instead of cocoon.

Couple things:

• You cannot put haste boost instead of cocoon for the simple reason cocoon is a tier 1 twist and haste boost a tier 3 twist.
• The build stays the same. I'm not changing it, as it's still the best DPS archer out there.
• The changes I do on my own toon reflect my playstyle and the evolution of the game. First, you mention you haven't yet "built" your own archer. Well, the truth is, with my experience as a person who's played the build, it doesn't have the saves for EE solo/shortman GH content. Simple as that.
  Now, you may think the DPS loss doesn't justify the changes I'm going for on my toon, but you haven't even played the build. And I'm telling you the low saves will cause you a lot of frustration as you die.
• Before MOTU, when a build was posted on the forums, you could just "copy" it and build the exact same version. Why? Because there was only one endgame.
  Now, you HAVE to change things. If I take Otto's whistler, it's because the CC it provides will save my ass in more than one occasion as I have all the aggro and Otto's works with IPS. Getting Haste boost will slightly increase my DPS (Haste boost is better than damage boost for EVERY build but AAs) but it will most likely be the cause of my death.
  
  Look at it this way.
  In EEGH, Every couple failed saves I die once.
  With OC and haste boost, I fail my save check 1/3 of the time.
  Without OC and haste boost (paladin splash), I never fail a save.
  Although the DDO's God once said "math never helps solve problems", this time he's wrong.
  
  But this is MY scenario.
  If you run EN/EH content or EE content in a group, YOUR scenario is entirely different. And YOUR build should reflect it. You can sacrifice the survivability aspect I care so much about to improve your DPS by taking OC and haste boost twisted, and you can dump the CC/self healing twists.
  
  Think of it as what I posted is a solid platform that should help you build your toon according to YOUR endgame. Add or remove elements to the build according to your playstyle and your endgame.
  
  We can debate all day about if OC+Haste Boost is better than high saves but the truth is simple: the first is better in a situation, the second is better in a different situation.

Hope that clarifies the changes I'm doing to MY toon, which doesn't change in any way the build itself as it will be the best route in 90% of the situations.

[Symerith]

Many people was attracted for this build due to high dps burst damage. Thaths exactly what you posted as title: Sithali the King of Burst DPS. Now you are changing to Sithali the King of Solo or Sithali the King of Survivability. You say it is still the best DPS archer arround there, ok. But its no longer the highest DPS archer arround there.

Edit: I shouldn't bother answering this. Everything is explained in the post you quoted (but apparently that you didn't bother reading).

Me: "The build stays the same. I'm not changing it"

You: "Now you are changing to [...]"

Have a good day.

[Stormraiser]

Extra credit question :

1) [Easy] Can you adjust this build to be ranger dominant (for PL)
2) [Hard] Can you adjust this build to be druid dominant (for PL)

Storm

[Symerith]

Extra credit question :

1) [Easy] Can you adjust this build to be ranger dominant (for PL)
2) [Hard] Can you adjust this build to be druid dominant (for PL)

Storm

1) 12 ranger 6 monk 2 fighter
2) I have absolutely no clue.. I didn't really play a druid. My druid PL was done THF with fighter splash, cleave/great cleave + firewall to cap.
Someone who knows more about druids than me might be able to answer that.

[Pilgrim1]

Have you consitered a rogue version of this? With otto's and pin + improved deception i think you would qualify for sneak attack quite a lot.

I'm thinking 13 rogue for improved sneak attack, haste boost 4, 12 SA and 9d6 SA. 6 monk for 10k stars, and 1 ranger for bow strength.


Feats would be tighter but i think you could manage with:
Bow str (ranger)
rapid shot
point blank shot
manyshot
precise shot
improved precise shot
zen archery
improved critical
PL sorc

toughness
precision
improved sneak attack
dodge

take pally delquent for more saves.

What do you think?

[emptysands]

1) 12 ranger 6 monk 2 fighter
2) I have absolutely no clue.. I didn't really play a druid. My druid PL was done THF with fighter splash, cleave/great cleave + firewall to cap.
Someone who knows more about druids than me might be able to answer that.

11 Ranger/7 monk/2 Fighter is probably slightly better split for heal amp.

Drunkcer: 13 Druid/ 6 Monk/1 Wizard. See http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=397165

[9orkan9]

what class i should start with for the skill points? monk or ranger?

[Pyyro_del_Drago]

Sorry for asking so many questions, I only have a few more, hehe . Most importantly, for an arti splash how would you adjust the starting stats to incorporate artificer? Also, besides the pally dille instead of rogue one and the greater convalescence bracers, is there anything else specific you would suggest to change over the pally or fighter splashes? Most important question would be the stat changes though . Thanks again .

Also, I assume you'd be starting arti to start with the UMD skill, would that be right?

[Symerith]

what class i should start with for the skill points? monk or ranger?

Ranger.

Sorry for asking so many questions, I only have a few more, hehe . Most importantly, for an arti splash how would you adjust the starting stats to incorporate artificer? Also, besides the pally dille instead of rogue one and the greater convalescence bracers, is there anything else specific you would suggest to change over the pally or fighter splashes? Most important question would be the stat changes though . Thanks again .

Also, I assume you'd be starting arti to start with the UMD skill, would that be right?

Well, you don't really need to change stats besides for the pally dilly requirements (I can't really adjust stats for you, it depends on the tomes you have available. Lower what you can (most likely con/wis)).

And yes, start with arti for more skill points and boost up UMD.

[Pyyro_del_Drago]

Well, you don't really need to change stats besides for the pally dilly requirements (I can't really adjust stats for you, it depends on the tomes you have available. Lower what you can (most likely con/wis)).

And yes, start with arti for more skill points and boost up UMD.

Okay, I have a full set of +4 tomes, so shouldn't be an issue. I'll stop asking questions now and figure out the rest myself, haha. Thank you very much for all the help!

[jakeelala]

I find survivability is fantastic with standing with stone tier 4 twisted in (since I'm always in earth). End game with GH stuff I'm like:
10% Ghostly
part time 25% Incorp
Displaced
16% Dodge
80-90 AC
And with SWS, Earth Stance, and blue slot 14 PRR I'm sitting at like 54 PRR or something.

[Symerith]

I find survivability is fantastic with standing with stone tier 4 twisted in (since I'm always in earth). End game with GH stuff I'm like:
10% Ghostly
part time 25% Incorp
Displaced
16% Dodge
80-90 AC
And with SWS, Earth Stance, and blue slot 14 PRR I'm sitting at like 54 PRR or something.

Same but 18% dodge and 57 PRR without Standing with stone.. so I'm guessing it would be 72 with it. (don't think it's worth the twist though).
Just curious though, what are your saves like? I found it was my biggest issue with the build in EEGH, and I'm guessing that's what you are mainly running.

[AtomicMew]

Nice build sith. Have you got around to testing out the paladin splash variant?

[Symerith]

Nice build sith. Have you got around to testing out the paladin splash variant?

Sadly, no. The bugged LR left me with 2 choices: stay gimped for a week or TR, so I TRed into a Juggernaut, which I am about to TR into the Pyrene build that I posted yesterday on the forums.

Eventually, I guess I will go back to playing an AA
Simply put, the fighter splash is better if you have PL and gear, the Arti splash is better if you lack the PLs.
The paladin splash has a different goal though so you can't really compare it to the 2 others. It is meant for soloing/shortmanning EE content.

[AtomicMew]

Sadly, no. The bugged LR left me with 2 choices: stay gimped for a week or TR, so I TRed into a Juggernaut, which I am about to TR into the Pyrene build that I posted yesterday on the forums.

Eventually, I guess I will go back to playing an AA
Simply put, the fighter splash is better if you have PL and gear, the Arti splash is better if you lack the PLs.
The paladin splash has a different goal though so you can't really compare it to the 2 others. It is meant for soloing/shortmanning EE content.

Most of my gameplay focuses on solo EE. I'm looking for a build for my completionist who was previously a DC pale master (and we know how that went). The problem is, I'm fairly clueless when it comes to anything that isn't a caster and I honestly can't see a point in playing anything but shiradi for a caster at the moment (which I already have). I'm deciding between this and something juggernaut-like. I like the wings and burst DPS, but I'm worried about weaker self healing and downtime between boosts. Your pyrene build looks very nice too, but I dislike high amounts of clickies.

Basically, looking for some help deciding. It will be a big plunge since I'd need to completely regear.

[emptysands]

Most of my gameplay focuses on solo EE. I'm looking for a build for my completionist who was previously a DC pale master (and we know how that went). The problem is, I'm fairly clueless when it comes to anything that isn't a caster and I honestly can't see a point in playing anything but shiradi for a caster at the moment (which I already have). I'm deciding between this and something juggernaut-like. I like the wings and burst DPS, but I'm worried about weaker self healing and downtime between boosts. Your pyrene build looks very nice too, but I dislike high amounts of clickies.

Basically, looking for some help deciding. It will be a big plunge since I'd need to completely regear.

You've seen my 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Arti in action.

However, 6 Ranger can not take Empower Healing and have low class devotion for

Rejuvenation Cocoon. 5d6 with say devotion 102 is 17.5 * 2.02 = 35.35 x4 = 141.4 over 9 secs. Empower Heal + Devotion 102 will push that too 17.5 * 2.77 = 48.48 x4 = 193.90 over 9sec. Add in Paladin/Ranger Devotion 4 (80%) and you get 17.5 * 3.57 = 62.48 x4 = 250 over 9sec. Plus heal amp.

Even at the top end it is probably about the same as a couple heal scrolls with cool downs over 9secs - although artificer splash gets heal CL and mastery boost.

It's hard to say on a on low PRR build if it just good between combat or if can handle when you have aggro focus. Potentially if you mix it with scroll healing it may give you time.

At the moment I'm considering switching to 11 Ranger/7 Monk/2 Arti with a LR+5. CMW with Empower Healing/Devotion 2/Devotion 102 will hit for 21 * ( 1 + .75 + .4 + 1.02 ) = 66.57 * heal amp.