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  1. #101
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    Thumbs down your serious

    Quote Originally Posted by Andoris View Post
    Here is my current build using the analysis above. As always feedback and suggestions are welcome.

    Race: Drow
    Past Lives: Wizard x3, Sorc x1, Bard x1

    Abilities:
    Str: 23 -- (8 base + 3 tome +8 item +1 litany + 2 rage +2 ship)
    Dex: 16 -- (10 base +1 litany + 3 tome +2 ship)
    Con: 41 -- (16 base +4 tome +10 item +1 litany +4 lich +2 rage +2 yugo +2 ship)
    Int: 74* -- (20 base +5 tome +7 level ups +8 enh + 11 item +3 Insight +1 exceptional +1 litany + 7 destinies +4 lich +2 yugo +2 ship +3 feat)
    Wis: 18 -- (8 base +3 tome +1 litany +4 Lich +2 ship)
    Cha: 28 -- (10 base +3tome +8 item +1 litany +2 Lich +2 ship +2 yugo)
    *can go to 76 int with max dc destiny layout

    Feats:
    Wizard: Maximize Spell (1),SF: Necro (5), SF: Enchant (10), Heighten Spell (15), Quicken Spell (20)
    Base: Insightful Reflexes (1), PL: Wizard (3), PL:Bard (6), GSF: Necro (9), GSF: Enchant (12), Spell Penetration (15), Empower Spell (18), Great Intelligence (21), Great Intelligence (24), Great Intelligence (27)
    Destiny: epic SP: Negative (26), Elusive Target (28)

    Enhancements:
    Wizard: Pale Master (41 ap): Core line VI (6ap), Neg. Healing Amp III (3ap), Neg Spell Crit IV (8ap), Necro Focus (2 ap), Intelligence II (4 ap), Improved Shrouding (2 ap), Efficient Metas: Quicken (6 ap), Bone Armor III (3 ap), Cloak of Night I (1 ap), Deathless Vigor III (6)

    Wizard: Archmage (30 ap): Archmage specialization: Necromancy IV (4ap) for access to Enervation as a SLA and +1 necro DC, Spell Critical III (6 ap), Spell Penetration I (2 ap), Energy of the Scholar I (2ap), Intelligence II (4 ap), Efficient Meta – Maximize III (6 ap) and Heighten II (4 ap), School Mastery - Necro (2ap),

    Drow (9 ap): Spell Resistance II (2ap), Intelligence II (4ap), Enchantment Lore III (3ap)

    Core Stats:
    Spell DCs: Necromancy – 67; Enchantment – 62; Conjuration/Illusion – 57; Evocation – 53; Others – 52 (can add +1 DC to all with max ED layout)
    Spell Penetration: 38 (20 level +5 epic +1 enhancement +2 feats +3 item +6 past lives +1 augmentation). If I do two feat swaps and some twists, I can hit 55 for EE MotU content at level 21. Will do that while leveling (first time runs), after that will swap feats back to something useful and if I need to run EE drow content after that, I’ll just swap to Sharidi.
    UMD: 37 standing / 46 with swaps-- (11 ranks +8 epic +9 Cha +6 Shroud +3 competence +2 luck +4 morale +1 profane +3 epic big top)
    Spell Points: 3207-- (1125 wizard + 80 magical training +1088 intelligence +250 item + 30 energy of scholar + 300 magister + 150 shroud +80 LGA +66 archmage +288 endless faith)
    Hit Points: 730– (80 levels +80 epic +420 con +20 heroic +20 auto grants +10 draconic +30 deathless vigor +40 False Life +10 Shroud +20 vitality
    Damage Avoidance: Total of 68.75% of physical damage avoided -- 61.5% chance to avoid getting hit (10% ghostly * 10% Dodge * 5% Elusive Target * 50% Displacement) + 34 PRR to negate 18.8% of the damage that hits me.

    Saves:
    Fort: 40/48 blocking – (6 base +4 epic +15 con +4 morale +1 alchemical +8 resistance +8 orb +2 luck)
    Ref: 62/70 blocking – (6 base +4 epic +31 int +4 morale +1 alchemical +8 resistance +8 orb +2 luck +6 epic destiny)
    Will: 36/42 blocking – (12 base +4 epic +4 wis +4 morale +1 alchemical +8 resistance +8 orb +2 luck)

    Epic Destinies:
    Max DC Destiny (Used for new EE's) – Magister: (+1 DC and +2 spell pen, loss damage dealing ability)
    Intelligence (6), Unearthly Reactions (3), Necromancy Specialist (3), Arcane Adept (1), Necromancy Augmentation (3), Necromancy Familiarity (1), Master of Necromancy (1)
    Twists: Fatesinger: Echos of the Ancestors: Magister (3), Shadow Dancer: Intelligence (2), Shadow Dancer: Intelligence (1)

    Epic Elite (Balanced) Destiny – Magister:
    (-1DC, but twisted in some damage dealing ability and more spell points)
    Intelligence (6), Unearthly Reactions (3), Necromancy Specialist (3), Arcane Adept (1), Necromancy Augmentation (3), Necromancy Familiarity (1), Master of Necromancy (1)
    Twists: Draconic: Energy Burst (4), Exalted Angel: Endless Faith (1) or Energy Sheath [electric] (1), Shadow Dancer: Intelligence (1)

    Epic Hard or older Epic Elite Destiny – Draconic (Lose 1 DC for lots of damage dealing ability)
    Intelligence (5), Energy Sheath [Electric] (3), Go out with a bang (3), Energy Burst: Electric (3), Dragon Heritage: Electric (3), Draconic Knowledge (2)
    Twists: Fury of the Wild: Sense Weakness (4),Magister: Necromancy Specialist (2), Exalted Angel: Endless Faith (1)

    Max Spell Penetration Destiny – Magister: (+8 Spell Pen, -1 DC)
    Intelligence (6), Unearthly Reactions (3), Necromancy Specialist (3), Piercing Spellcraft (3), Arcane Adept (1), Necromancy Augmentation (1)
    Twists: Fatesinger: Echos of the Ancestors: Magister (3), Draconic: Piercing Spellcraft (3), Shadow Dancer: Intelligence (1)

    Gear:
    Trinket: Litany (alchemical resistance ritual)
    Head: Fire Resist 45 Crown of Resistance +10
    Neck: Green Steel: Pos/Neg/Water +10hp, +150sp, +2 con skills, +4 int skills, +6 wis skills; +6 wisdom
    Goggles: Intricate Field Goggles +3 insightful intelligence (Green: Heavy Fort /Yellow: +1 exp Int)
    Bracers: Health +10 Bracers of Dodge 10%
    Body: Shroud of the Abbot
    Cloak: Stormreaver’s Tablecloth (Yellow: +15 spell craft)
    Ring: Guardian’s Ring (yellow: 250 spell points)
    Ring: ring of shadows (yellow: vitality) / Ring of the Djinn
    Boots: Sages Shoes / TOD boots / Cannith Boots of Propulsion
    Gloves: Master Illusionist (EE version)
    Belt: Belt of the Seven Ideals (Green: Good Luck+2 /Yellow: +15 heal)
    Weapons: +8 Impulse 132 Scepter of enchantment IV (Red: 138 Lightning), Nether Orb +5 necromancy focus (Red: 138 nullification)
    Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity
    u r including yugoloth potions in your dc for the build that would be more of a playstyle showing it up on your accuall stat levels is false advertising i mean throw in some major sp potions and i have 10000000 sp gimme a break...then u guys have breakdown with a +5 tome which is only available for a limited time and costs 50 dollars cash money with litany bonus included..cmon now dont forget to add three wiz TR's and 10000 tp points so u can buy pots in a quest cmon u guys dont post crazy stats u dont have what u have already is good enough then u say 33 int bonus thats only 66int not 80 or whatever u said u have..hell with your findings u can have madstone boots with seasonal cookies flip into intimi tank at a moments notice . lastly 10 dodge at lev 28 does absolutly nothing you guys need to go back to the drawing board I have 28 dodge and it only worxs let say 1/10

  2. #102
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangatang View Post
    u r including yugoloth potions in your dc for the build that would be more of a playstyle showing it up on your accuall stat levels is false advertising i mean throw in some major sp potions and i have 10000000 sp gimme a break...then u guys have breakdown with a +5 tome which is only available for a limited time and costs 50 dollars cash money with litany bonus included..cmon now dont forget to add three wiz TR's and 10000 tp points so u can buy pots in a quest cmon u guys dont post crazy stats u dont have what u have already is good enough then u say 33 int bonus thats only 66int not 80 or whatever u said u have..hell with your findings u can have madstone boots with seasonal cookies flip into intimi tank at a moments notice . lastly 10 dodge at lev 28 does absolutly nothing you guys need to go back to the drawing board I have 28 dodge and it only worxs let say 1/10
    [Translation]
    How dare you include hard to get things that require grinding!
    That's cheating, just because you've spent lots of time and effort playing DDO doesn't mean your DC should be better than mine!
    I also have no clue how the game works, because that requires effort and determination, so I'll pollute my bad math in regards to dodge onto the forums.
    [/Translation]

    Did I get that right?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangatang View Post
    u r including yugoloth potions in your dc for the build that would be more of a playstyle showing it up on your accuall stat levels is false advertising
    False advertising how? I use Yugoloth potions routinely on my caster.

    Quote Originally Posted by orangatang View Post
    then u guys have breakdown with a +5 tome which is only available for a limited time and costs 50 dollars cash money
    +4->+5 upgrade tomes are rare, but not THAT rare. I've pulled 2 from chests. And I don't even super-grind on loot weekends the way some of my guild-mates do.

    Quote Originally Posted by orangatang View Post
    with litany bonus included..cmon now
    You have a problem with Litany of the Dead? Go learn Abbot. It's not just a mindless beat-down, but it's not really that hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by orangatang View Post
    cmon u guys dont post crazy stats u dont have
    They probably actually do have them. There was nothing too crazy in that breakdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by orangatang View Post
    then u say 33 int bonus thats only 66int not 80 or whatever u said u have
    Incorrect. A 66 Int would only be a +28 Int bonus. It takes a 76 to get a +33 bonus. 80 would be +35.

    Quote Originally Posted by orangatang View Post
    lastly 10 dodge at lev 28 does absolutly nothing you guys need to go back to the drawing board I have 28 dodge and it only worxs let say 1/10
    If Dodge 28% isn't working 28% of the time, you need to file a bug report.

  4. #104
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    Looks like we need to adjust our DCs down 2. As of 19.2 today it appears mastery no longer stacks with individual DC increases. =(
    XooleX - 22nd Life Palemaster, Dyrr - Sorcerer, Eladari - Tempest Ranger, Fazoul - Cleric, Mezyt - PM Wizard Trapper

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangatang View Post
    u r including yugoloth potions in your dc for the build that would be more of a playstyle showing it up on your accuall stat levels is false advertising i mean throw in some major sp potions and i have 10000000 sp gimme a break...then u guys have breakdown with a +5 tome which is only available for a limited time and costs 50 dollars cash money with litany bonus included..cmon now dont forget to add three wiz TR's and 10000 tp points so u can buy pots in a quest cmon u guys dont post crazy stats u dont have what u have already is good enough then u say 33 int bonus thats only 66int not 80 or whatever u said u have..hell with your findings u can have madstone boots with seasonal cookies flip into intimi tank at a moments notice . lastly 10 dodge at lev 28 does absolutly nothing you guys need to go back to the drawing board I have 28 dodge and it only worxs let say 1/10
    Fellow commentators, please do not bother feeding the Trolls. Obviously this one can't read or spell, and has anger issues.

    If I am going to get trolled, it would be nice to get something imaginative and humorous at least, not this drivel.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by XooleX View Post
    Looks like we need to adjust our DCs down 2. As of 19.2 today it appears mastery no longer stacks with individual DC increases. =(
    Agreed, I cried a bit when I logged in this evening. The problem is that 2 DC, is enough to make necro casting too expensive/unreliable to be viable on new EE content (it was already a stretch, but workable). Once I calm down a bit and do some testing, I will post an update (look for it in the next few days), but it looks like the only option left is to go max enchantment and be a hold bot (for EE content).

    I'll do some testing this week and see what is workable. At least it was fun for a month.

  7. #107
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    oh and I've been noticing zoning inside quests (from portals etc) causes death aura to go away just like it has done for radiant servant aura forever so looks like we get that bug. However being able to use spell absorb without absorbing heals is a good enough trade to me.
    XooleX - 22nd Life Palemaster, Dyrr - Sorcerer, Eladari - Tempest Ranger, Fazoul - Cleric, Mezyt - PM Wizard Trapper

  8. #108

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    Gah, no!

    That annoys the **** out of me on my cleric, and it's always a pleasant relief to switch to my pale master and not have to worry about portals. Booooooo!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by XooleX View Post
    Looks like we need to adjust our DCs down 2. As of 19.2 today it appears mastery no longer stacks with individual DC increases. =(
    Can anyone elaborate on this? I assume you are referring to dc increases from PM shrouds. What about the drow enchantment lore?

    Also I assume this means dc increase from enhancements only and that Archmage school mastery still stacks with feats and gear. Is this correct?

    Anyone know if this change is a bug or a fix?
    Member of Storm Lords on Thelanis.
    In game: Unshriven, Unbidden, Unsated, and Unfazed.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devachan View Post
    Can anyone elaborate on this?
    The spell focus mastery effect -- +2 DC to all schools, found on tablecloth, dragon cloak, and orbs -- no longer stacks with focus items for specific schools.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The spell focus mastery effect -- +2 DC to all schools, found on tablecloth, dragon cloak, and orbs -- no longer stacks with focus items for specific schools.
    Ahh ok thanks. I thought Xoolex was talking about archmage school mastery.
    Member of Storm Lords on Thelanis.
    In game: Unshriven, Unbidden, Unsated, and Unfazed.

  12. #112
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    Default New Pale Master Shroud Eye Appearance

    The new patch to U19 apparantly has brought us new shiny eyes...
    I personally must say I find its a bit too much...!
    I liked the way the glowing eyes were before and dont see any reason to change that... (except that on WF Pale Masters, the colored eyes were so deep inside the scull, the skin didnt show them at all...)
    The new flashy eyes draw too much attention from the toons facial appearance...
    If I could, I would change that back to what it was right now!

    Whats your opinion on that topic?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    [Translation]
    How dare you include hard to get things that require grinding!
    That's cheating, just because you've spent lots of time and effort playing DDO doesn't mean your DC should be better than mine!
    I also have no clue how the game works, because that requires effort and determination, so I'll pollute my bad math in regards to dodge onto the forums.
    [/Translation]

    Did I get that right?
    No.

    A poorly-written criticism while riddled with some strange assertions that seems to be saying something like:

    [Thesis]
    The builds that suppose stats dependent on temporary buffs or rare loot are not representative of a reasonably-achievable goal and, therefore, instead of being a "Pale Master Guide" it is more of an "EE PM Guide for Veterans".
    [/Thesis]

    If that's their thesis statement, you know, teased-out, then I can see their point, though my first criticism would be how they failed to read:

    Key Considerations:

    - Build is focused on end game content (Epic Elite)...
    Which is plainly stated and formatted adequately such that the most casual observer should reasonably understand the intended audience.

    My own feedback is that I find this guide well written and something I can use as a high-end benchmark if I ever finish 2 more wizard lives on my PM. I appreciate the break-down of maximum and reasonable INT and other feedback through this thread...so, thanks, Andoris!

  14. #114
    Community Member Fanaval's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoris View Post
    Agreed, I cried a bit when I logged in this evening. The problem is that 2 DC, is enough to make necro casting too expensive/unreliable to be viable on new EE content (it was already a stretch, but workable). Once I calm down a bit and do some testing, I will post an update (look for it in the next few days), but it looks like the only option left is to go max enchantment and be a hold bot (for EE content).

    I'll do some testing this week and see what is workable. At least it was fun for a month.
    Can a bit of enervation SLA address this issue?
    Fanaval Turinaur of Orien

    Reaper Trees Completionist; Racial Completionist; Quadruple Epic Completionist; Triple Heroic Completionist.

  15. #115
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    I just recently brushed the dust off of my PM wizzy, to see how the new enhancements would work.

    Yes, they are once again more than viable., and I only have 1 Bard past life.
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanaval View Post
    Can a bit of enervation SLA address this issue?
    It does, however; before the change EE Storm horn's, already needed a Enervation SLA to be reliable. Now you either need 2 castings, or energy drain (sometimes w/ enervation) which is very spell point intensive.

    Did a little bit of testing (no conclusions yet, too busy playing my Kensai), but I am leaning towards enchantment focus over necromancy for EE Stormhorns, necromancy is still fine for everything else.

    I should have an update out soon

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    I just recently brushed the dust off of my PM wizzy, to see how the new enhancements would work.

    Yes, they are once again more than viable., and I only have 1 Bard past life.
    You only need one Bard PL, as you want it for the +1 Enchant DC that comes from the active PL feat

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoris View Post
    It does, however; before the change EE Storm horn's, already needed a Enervation SLA to be reliable. Now you either need 2 castings, or energy drain (sometimes w/ enervation) which is very spell point intensive.

    Did a little bit of testing (no conclusions yet, too busy playing my Kensai), but I am leaning towards enchantment focus over necromancy for EE Stormhorns, necromancy is still fine for everything else.

    I should have an update out soon
    Enervation Scroll + Enervation SLA + FoD

  19. #119
    Community Member TBot1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andoris View Post
    It does, however; before the change EE Storm horn's, already needed a Enervation SLA to be reliable. Now you either need 2 castings, or energy drain (sometimes w/ enervation) which is very spell point intensive.

    Did a little bit of testing (no conclusions yet, too busy playing my Kensai), but I am leaning towards enchantment focus over necromancy for EE Stormhorns, necromancy is still fine for everything else.

    I should have an update out soon
    Can't wait to hear more. I'm 3 lives away from Completionist (with 3xWiz, 2xFvs), and am thinking about one of these for my end-life:

    1. Drow Pure Pale Master Wizard, or
    2. Shiradi Sorc (with Monk splash), or
    3. Shiradi Wiz (with FVS/Monk splashes)

    Really, I've been trying to determine from reading the forums whether DC casting is going to viable for most/all EE content, or not. Am getting a lot of mixed messages about the topic. If your awesome build reduces you to tears after the recent changes, this is pretty frustrating to hear.

    I've had fun as both Wiz and a Sorc, and would love to go back to being a Pure PM, but only if the self-healing is sufficient for EE and only if the DC casting can work without having to do 3 debuff spells first each time.

    Thanks for all your work.
    "So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBot1234 View Post
    Can't wait to hear more. I'm 3 lives away from Completionist (with 3xWiz, 2xFvs), and am thinking about one of these for my end-life:

    1. Drow Pure Pale Master Wizard, or
    2. Shiradi Sorc (with Monk splash), or
    3. Shiradi Wiz (with FVS/Monk splashes)

    Really, I've been trying to determine from reading the forums whether DC casting is going to viable for most/all EE content, or not. Am getting a lot of mixed messages about the topic. If your awesome build reduces you to tears after the recent changes, this is pretty frustrating to hear.

    I've had fun as both Wiz and a Sorc, and would love to go back to being a Pure PM, but only if the self-healing is sufficient for EE and only if the DC casting can work without having to do 3 debuff spells first each time.

    Thanks for all your work.
    It really comes down to the content you are planning on running. If you are running GH EE's necro dc's are just fine and you will feel very powerful. When it comes to Stormhorns, it will require significant debuffing to get them workable. I would actually recommend an enchantment focus for Stormhorns, you can get to a 66 enchant DC (67 with completionist) with just a change to the magister spell specialist (I would recommend that you keep necromancy in archmage for the enveration sla and easy swapping between the two modes).

    Self healing is good enough for EE (~280+ bursts) as long as you remember that you are a wizard.

    Playing a DC caster is viable but not by any means easy. You are not going to be soloing content and running full speed killing all in your path (at least not in Stormhorns, you will crush EE GH), but you will fill an invaluable role in the team.

    The Shiradi builds are more powerful in EE Stormhorns individually, but that doesn't mean that the DC caster has no role, you can't overstate the value of a mass hold to the team, with the mob densities we are seeing these days.

    If I had a caster completionist I couldn't imagine not going DC caster. That +1 to all dcs (+2 intelligence) is a big deal. If you want a Shiradi -- roll up a first lifer they are just as good, don't waste all the work you did to get to completionist.
    Last edited by Andoris; 10-05-2013 at 11:01 AM.

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