Pale Master Guide

[Portalcat]

My primary destiny is Draconic (fire focused atm), I never bother with Magister and I only used Shadowdancer while leveling Martial epic past lives (Consume on a PM is awesome btw). The only thing of real value out of Magister is the potential for +1 int due to not needing to twist [Spell School] Specialist.

I'm going to chime in and say that Magister is where I think we want to be in the U21 raids.

The logic is that 5 charges of dragon breath is negligible in them, but the 10% sp reduction is meaningful, especially with heavy use of ruin.



For general questing, I like draconic with sense weakness, and sometimes shadowdancer if evasion would have outsized importance (EE Tor).

[peng]

The difference between a T2 energy burst and a T3 burst is 4.5 points of base damage / level. If we look at overall damage a T3 burst will do an average of 23 points of base damage per level, +1 Draconic knowledge you would be typically casting burst at caster level 26, for an average base damage of 598.

A T2 burst with +20 elemental spell power and +1 caster level will do an average base damage of 18.5 per level, typically casting at caster level 27, and a 20% boost due to spell power, for an average base damage of 499.5, modified to 599.4 due to the spell power boost from dragon heritage.

So a T3 energy burst and a T2 energy burst with the three extra points thrown into dragon heritage/knowledge is as close to equal as you can get. Additionally, with dragon heritage/knowledge your Dragon breath is much more powerful as well, making that a clear win in my book.

Energy Vortex requires me to stand next to mobs for an extended period of time -- that is not a place my PM wants to stand . If I am standing next to a mob, it better be dead soon after.

As for Empyrian Magic, the only damage spells I cast often is Energy Burst, Dragon Breath, Necrotic Ray, and Delayed Blast Fireball (once in a while for clean up). There is no way I would get Empyrian stacks to anything meaningful. Also, if I am going to dedicate a twist slot to boosting spell damage (versus DC's), there is no substitute for Sense Weakness.

It's not a 20% boost, it's 20 percentage points. If you already have 250 spellpower, your spells deal 3.5x base spell damage on a non-crit. 20 extra spellpower means your spells now deal 3.7x base dmg for an increase of ~5.7%.

Assuming cl 26 T3 at 250 spellpower vs cl 27 T2 at 270 spellpower:

T3:
Energy Burst:
23 dmg per level x 26 x 3.5 = 2093
Dragon Breath:
23 dmg per level x 26 x 3.5 = 2093

T2:
Energy Burst:
18.5 dmg per level x 27 x 3.7 = 1848.15
Dragon Breath:
23 dmg per level x 27 x 3.7 = 2297.7

Energy Burst:
T3 - T2 = 244.85
Dragon Breath:
T2 - T3 = 204.7

So in these 2 scenarios, the difference to eburst is greater than the difference to dragon breath, and you can cast eburst twice as often until you use up all 5 charges, then can keep using eburst until you run out of sp. Unless you have a lot of other spells of your draconic element, or a *lot* less spellpower, T3 eburst beats out +20 spellpower and +1 caster level. And of course if you're running in anything other than draconic, being able to twist a T3 energy burst is better than T2.

[Andoris]

I'm going to chime in and say that Magister is where I think we want to be in the U21 raids.

The logic is that 5 charges of dragon breath is negligible in them, but the 10% sp reduction is meaningful, especially with heavy use of ruin.

For general questing, I like draconic with sense weakness, and sometimes shadowdancer if evasion would have outsized importance (EE Tor).

To each their own.. but there is enough trash that having the burst dps from Draconic is more important to me than the 10% reduction (then again I have all the SP clickies but one... **** you shard, and I don't mind drinking a pot if I need to).

I really like Shadowdancer, but more for the consume ability and the cheap sla -- evasion is just icing on the cake, and usually not that needed.

[Andoris]

It's not a 20% boost, it's 20 percentage points. If you already have 250 spellpower, your spells deal 3.5x base spell damage on a non-crit. 20 extra spellpower means your spells now deal 3.7x base dmg for an increase of ~5.7%.

Assuming cl 26 T3 at 250 spellpower vs cl 27 T2 at 270 spellpower:

T3:
Energy Burst:
23 dmg per level x 26 x 3.5 = 2093
Dragon Breath:
23 dmg per level x 26 x 3.5 = 2093

T2:
Energy Burst:
18.5 dmg per level x 27 x 3.7 = 1848.15
Dragon Breath:
23 dmg per level x 27 x 3.7 = 2297.7

Energy Burst:
T3 - T2 = 244.85
Dragon Breath:
T2 - T3 = 204.7

So in these 2 scenarios, the difference to eburst is greater than the difference to dragon breath, and you can cast eburst twice as often until you use up all 5 charges, then can keep using eburst until you run out of sp. Unless you have a lot of other spells of your draconic element, or a *lot* less spellpower, T3 eburst beats out +20 spellpower and +1 caster level. And of course if you're running in anything other than draconic, being able to twist a T3 energy burst is better than T2.

Run what you want.. personally I am thinking of dropping the 20 spell power and +1 CL for +6 reflex saves. In the end though it doesn't matter that much, feel free to work your ED's in any way you want. The only important thing is boosting Int (for DC's) and making sure you twist in the +3 DC ability from magister.. everything else is really personal preference.

[Portalcat]

To each their own.. but there is enough trash that having the burst dps from Draconic is more important to me than the 10% reduction (then again I have all the SP clickies but one... **** you shard, and I don't mind drinking a pot if I need to.

I should clarify: for Magister in raids, I do twist energy burst.

I don't find 5 charges of dragon breath makes much of a difference given the length of the fights. Meanwhile, fueling Ruin is huge. Ruin DPS is enough to be meaningful in good groups but amazing in bad ones. Ruin DPS on the dragon literally saves underpowered EH or EE Deathwyrm groups when they start racking up death penalties and can't keep the deathlord count down.



I too have been drinking a lot of pots in the raids thanks to cards, but I do like to minimize that since that supply is finite.

[Andoris]

I should clarify: for Magister in raids, I do twist energy burst.

I don't find 5 charges of dragon breath makes much of a difference given the length of the fights. Meanwhile, fueling Ruin is huge. Ruin DPS is enough to be meaningful in good groups but amazing in bad ones. Ruin DPS on the dragon literally saves underpowered EH or EE Deathwyrm groups when they start racking up death penalties and can't keep the deathlord count down.



I too have been drinking a lot of pots in the raids thanks to cards, but I do like to minimize that since that supply is finite.

I completely concur with the usefulness of Ruin -- as much as I hate its spell point costs, its unique effect has caused me to slot it. There is just nothing out there that does what Ruin can do with bypassing all creature DR while delivering 3k-4k damage.

I still use dragon breath a lot in deathwyrm as a "oh **** I am swarmed by mobs" when doing the mirrors. It is very handy to Energy burst + Dragon breath, allowing you to get away.

Not saying the 10% reduction is bad in magister (I have it selected for when I am in the destiny), just not sure if I am prepared to give up draconic for it.

[Caprice]

I really like Shadowdancer, but more for the consume ability and the cheap sla -- evasion is just icing on the cake, and usually not that needed.

I have spent very little time in SD so maybe I just don't understand it, but how are you building Shadow Charges? AFAICT from the ability descriptions, the only thing that builds charges is the tier 3 Shrouding Strike/Shot ability, which requires a melee or ranged attack. That doesn't seem ideal for a caster. What am I overlooking?

[Andoris]

I have spent very little time in SD so maybe I just don't understand it, but how are you building Shadow Charges? AFAICT from the ability descriptions, the only thing that builds charges is the tier 3 Shrouding Strike/Shot ability, which requires a melee or ranged attack. That doesn't seem ideal for a caster. What am I overlooking?

I use Shrouding Strike.. Hit them quick on the head with my Q-staff, then Finger of Death = 1 shadow charge. Consume only uses 1 charge per usage.. so as long as you gain at least 1 charge every 2 minutes, your fine.

Note ... I am not advocating Shadow Dancer as a end game destiny (situationally it is nice though).. but it was a lot of fun while leveling through my Martial ETRs

[Caprice]

I use Shrouding Strike.. Hit them quick on the head with my Q-staff, then Finger of Death = 1 shadow charge. Consume only uses 1 charge per usage.. so as long as you gain at least 1 charge every 2 minutes, your fine.

Note ... I am not advocating Shadow Dancer as a end game destiny (situationally it is nice though).. but it was a lot of fun while leveling through my Martial ETRs

Understood. I was looking at TRing through a melee life for Martial destinies so it is nice to know that may not be as necessary as I had thought. I had not looked at SD in this light, so thank you for opening my eyes.

[Portalcat]

Understood. I was looking at TRing through a melee life for Martial destinies so it is nice to know that may not be as necessary as I had thought. I had not looked at SD in this light, so thank you for opening my eyes.

Shadowdancer made the martial lives the easiest of the non-arcane spheres. The biggest reason for this: 6 points of int to maintain our DCs. You don't take a hit the most important part of the build.

The evasion was also a really nice perk. My Tor runs are forever better for it.



Divine was much worse, because I lost 3 to my DCs and got...wings, I guess? With the divine sphere overhaul, this sphere gets much better for us.

[unbongwah]

Divine was much worse, because I lost 3 to my DCs and got...wings, I guess? With the divine sphere overhaul, this sphere gets much better for us.

How so? The DC-based SLAs are keyed to WIS or CHA, so they're no good for a PM; and the various self-heals are meaningless while in undead form. What am I missing?

[Caprice]

If nothing else EA added the core "Transcendental Magic : Passive Bonus:+3 to the DC of all your spells", which makes up for losing all the INT stat picks elsewhere. Most of the active abilities are terrible. I suppose Shadows Upon You can help instakills stick but meh. OTOH Judgment + Lay To Rest + Judge The Many is reaonably effective in content with undead or evil outsiders, and thus useful in Thunderholme.

[Portalcat]

If nothing else EA added the core "Transcendental Magic : Passive Bonus:+3 to the DC of all your spells", which makes up for losing all the INT stat picks elsewhere.

This.


Realize that PMs actually lose a lot less than most EE builds from running off-destiny. The +3 DC from magister can be twisted and energy burst for DPS can be twisted. If you can make up for the 6 points of int, running off-destiny is like running in draconic minus dragon breath and some spell pen.

[Andoris]

Updated the guide with some comments on Multi-classing (18/2 rogue or monk splash) and updated my build in Post #2; I am still working on finishing herioc completionist but thought it would be good to post my planned build once that is complete.

As always I am looking forward to your feedback and suggestions.

[Portalcat]

Updated the guide with some comments on Multi-classing (18/2 rogue or monk splash) and updated my build in Post #2; I am still working on finishing herioc completionist but thought it would be good to post my planned build once that is complete.

As always I am looking forward to your feedback and suggestions.

Nice to see the Eternal Chilling Darkness build winning the day, at least for U21.



Nitpick on enhancements: 13-14 points is required in Morninglord. This is because taking 2 points of int plus 3 ranks of enchantment focus only gets you to 9 AP spent, and you need 10 to unlock Fey Energy Tap.

I personally drop efficient heighten (*sighs*) for a rank of arcanum. The final split is 14 AP in Morninglord, 25 in archmage, and 41 in pale master.

[Andoris]

Nice to see the Eternal Chilling Darkness build winning the day, at least for U21.



Nitpick on enhancements: 13-14 points is required in Morninglord. This is because taking 2 points of int plus 3 ranks of enchantment focus only gets you to 9 AP spent, and you need 10 to unlock Fey Energy Tap.

I personally drop efficient heighten (*sighs*) for a rank of arcanum. The final split is 14 AP in Morninglord, 25 in archmage, and 41 in pale master.

Good catch (ugg).

I have to give you props.. you convinced me on Eternal Chilling Darkness, and when working out my gear list I had your gear layout in a second window for reference. Thank you -- you helped make it easy

[caellwin]

in your gear section you have this

Head: Green Steel: Ice Lore 13%, Fire lore 14%, Void lore 15%


how are you getting that?

[EllisDee37]

in your gear section you have this

Head: Green Steel: Ice Lore 13%, Fire lore 14%, Void lore 15%


how are you getting that?

Like this. Recipes here.

[Andoris]

Personally, I am partial to this planner: http://perfectweb.org/ddo/crafting/base_crafting.php

Either will work though. The Helm is a Water/Dominion/Ethereal (tier 1) + Fire/Dominion/Ethereal (tier 2) + Negative/Dominion/Ethereal (Tier 3)

[EllisDee37]

Personally, I am partial to this planner: http://perfectweb.org/ddo/crafting/base_crafting.php

Either will work though. The Helm is a Water/Dominion/Ethereal (tier 1) + Fire/Dominion/Ethereal (tier 2) + Negative/Dominion/Ethereal (Tier 3)

I've never been able to make heads or tails out of jj's greensteel planner. Every time I try, I can never come up with a recipe using it even when I already know what recipe I want. For example, I don't see the word "lore" on any effect in the tier 1 dropdown. I can't even imagine trying to use it to create an item I don't already have fully planned out.

I love the rest of his tools, but I get the impression his greensteel planner is only for people who know the underlying greensteel lore. I don't have the first clue what "aspect of ..." means, nor do I want to. heh.

EDIT: Ah, I see the lore section in the first dropdown now. It took some looking, but I found it! heh.