New Server - DDO as players want it

[voxson5]

Preamble:
It has come to my attention that the decision makers of DDO/Turbine are quite out of touch with what the DDO vets, PnP players, and people who enjoy how DDO was before. I have seen many changes in my relatively short time here, some I consider very detrimental to the users experience.

The Hypothesis:
DDO is a hugely monty-haul campaign that hands out incredible power for very little effort. This has been a gradual process, feed by the want to encourage newer players to join with the veterans and be able to contribute on par.

There is an ever increasing game population that feels these changes are not for the betterment of the game. Changes include availability of better than raid equipment as random loot, lowering the challenge of quests, increasing the strength of characters, and removing the need to work together.

The Proposal:
Launch a server (or use Lamania) that embraces the old DDO.
Remove the silly combat changes
Bribe your way into the marketplace
Return the nerfed quests and classes to former glory
Remove the monty-haul loot tables and let us strive to accomplish more power
Etc


Disclaimer:
I love a lot of this game, it has brought me years of enjoyment, new friends and introduced and amazing community.

I also feel it has been walking on a very slippery slope for some time. The lack of dev input is worrying, and promises made are still waiting to be made true, even after years have past.

Perhaps I am merely venting because of another change that I feel is undeserved.
Thank you for reading.

[Syllph]

I partly agree. I have always thought it silly that you walk out of Korthos decked in complete magic gear from head to toe. So much so that the end rewards until about level 5 are junk as are most of the chests. Then recently you started pulling holy burst, acid burst weapons at level 2 in the harbor.

I dunno, I guess if they had a new sever where loot was not just run x quest y times until you pull z - but rather run a quest that has been supped up where the players aren't all rocking uber gear with infinite mana/health pots and you would be guaranteed a full end reward where you could pick the item you wanted I would enjoy that.

I don't enjoy grinding for gear. I hate grinding for random gear (FR challenges). I dislike that plat is essentially worthless.

[shadereaper33]

no.

[voxson5]

It's not really about the grind for gear (although if you want something you should work for it). For me I guess it is more about the dumbing down of the game.

[redspecter23]

While it might be a nice idea in theory, creating any sort of hardcore server would never satisfy all players equally. It's like they say, you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. Whatever "rules" are made for this server would be good for only a small portion of the already small portion of players looking for a hardcore challenge.

A better compromise might be to enable certain "hardcore" restrictions during character creation to better suit individual needs while not forcing players onto a server that would most likely be dead.

Examples:

Chest Loot: Standard/-5 levels/-10 levels

Named Item Drop Rate: Standard/0% chance if you are over the level of the quest

DDO Store: On/vanity items only

Auction House/Brokers: On/Off

Player Trade: On/Off

Shared Bank: Yes/No

Permadeath: On/Off (various specific permadeath rules could be available. I'm not overly knowledgeable on the subject)

Quest overlevel XP penalty: Standard/0xp for any quest done by a player whose level is higher than the quest level on norm

Guild Ship Buffs: Standard/Disabled

Using these self imposed limits you can create your own restrictions. Find other players that are of a similar mindset and group together or even create a hardcore guild for other like minded players. No new server needed. These features could be viewed upon character inspection so you can confirm other "hardcore" players you're grouping with have similar options enabled. Mayve even a special icon in the name much like TR wings.

[danzig138]

The game hasn't been dumbed down. That's just a stupid thing to say. It's changed, yes, and not for the better, but that isn't the same thing. No, the issue with the game is that somewhere along the way, someone decided they didnt' actually want to make a D&D game anymore, let alone one based on 3rd edition D&D. They want to make some other game while sucking at the Brand value.

If you want the game fixed, the developers need to sit down with a full set of 3rd edition books and rebuild it according to the rules it is supposed to be based on. Or they need to admit that they don't want to make a 3E-based game, scrap it, and start over with the game they actually want.

[voxson5]

A lot of good ideas, and I agree on the 3.5ed rules. But I do think that ship sailed a long time ago.

I think our versions of dumbed down are quite different. We have barter boxes for instant shroud recipes, normal doors where locked ones were, bravery bonus, xp stones, +4 tome sales....

IMHO, that reduces the skill level required, resulting in dumbing down the game

[CaptainSpacePony]

I too long for my youth, but no matter how I dress, I am what I am.

/not signed

[MsEricka]

/not signed

Bad idea as it only serves the needs of a few and would get shut down after a few months leaving users to whine about how much Turbine hates them.

Additionally it would be like having two versions of the game, which would require a second team to program it which would take away from other updates and fixes which would leave users to whine about how much Turbine hates them.

[twigzz]

Boot up a 1.0 version of DDO on Lama and let the hardcores go at it for a couple months. *shrugs* lvl cap of 10 should make the game hard enough.

[Chai]

The players themselves cant even agree on what they want, so if you think the limited number of devs Turbine has employed arent cutting the mustard, wait til you catch a gander of what the ArmchairDevelopersUnion® would put out as a game.

The "game server run by players" concept works better in PW games like NWN where people arent paying to play other than their initial investment in the game.

[arminius]

The bottom line is Eberron is a high magic world. The DM makes the rules and defines the world, and if they define it as magic runs like water through the streams then it is so. If you don't like the DM's rules get another one.

It's all relative anyway. As they say in Harry Potter, the other side has magic too.

[Chai]

The game hasn't been dumbed down. That's just a stupid thing to say. It's changed, yes, and not for the better, but that isn't the same thing. No, the issue with the game is that somewhere along the way, someone decided they didnt' actually want to make a D&D game anymore, let alone one based on 3rd edition D&D. They want to make some other game while sucking at the Brand value.

If you want the game fixed, the developers need to sit down with a full set of 3rd edition books and rebuild it according to the rules it is supposed to be based on. Or they need to admit that they don't want to make a 3E-based game, scrap it, and start over with the game they actually want.

It has been dumbed down, youre just spelling it out as to the HOW of it all. Its not about whether it fits the descrption of a D&D game to the letter, because most of us will accept the game following D&D in spirit even when it doesnt follow it to the letter. Its more about how the quests got easier, while the power creep increased, making the game super easy now to the point where its almost painful to read threads about specific quests being too hard.

Just a few examples:

Curses used to be perminent - now they time out.
Poison used to be semi perminent.
Stat damage used to be perminent until restore (or lesser) was used.
Neg levels all come off at a shrine.
Helpless due to zero stat used to mean laying on the ground and autocrit.
Zero in some stats used to kill.
There used to be a death xp penalty - now we just repair gear.

Because of these and other things like these, quests that used to require strategy and teamwork can now be blown through in 1-2 minutes, because players can just walk through most danger and survive. High trap damage and spell damage on elite is the last bastion of challenge in most heroic content, and there are threads up asking for those to be toned down, just like everything else got toned down. Theres no excitement of possible failure anymore, just fear of timesync. Fear of, and lots of complaining about timesync.

[Ape_Man]

Just a few examples:

Curses used to be perminent - now they time out.
Poison used to be semi perminent.
Stat damage used to be perminent until restore (or lesser) was used.
Neg levels all come off at a shrine.
Helpless due to zero stat used to mean laying on the ground and autocrit.
Zero in some stats used to kill.
There used to be a death xp penalty - now we just repair gear.

And poison and disease immunity actually was an immunity!

With the exception of the death XP penalty - which I'd love to see back - the rest of it is meh. It only affects noobs who don't know about pots, that's it.

Bringing that back would just be making that game harder in the dumbest way possible. I know that's par for the course but it's just dumb.

[Gardan64]

To offset the easy play of late my guild has started a new iron man party. The rule is whenever you die if you can not walk to a shrine under your own power you must res out to the spirit binder and destroy all items you have in your backpack and have equipped! It makes death something to fear! Every 4 levels you can bind an item that does not get destroyed. So at 20 th you would have 5 items you keep We have found it fun to use less than perfect equipment and has made for a fun experience

[Qzipoun]

DDO used to be a better game with less content that was less successful.

Now it is a more successful game with more content but not as good.

It is unfortunate that we have to choose and that these two are currently mutually exclusive, but the dumbing down does bring in more revenue which allows for more content and for the servers to stay up.

In an ideal world I would love to have access to my own server and undo so much of the **** we have to deal with (or play on someone's server who would do the same) but there's no money in that for Turbine so it won't happen.

[Memnir]

I don't think niche servers are ever a good idea.

And I say that as someone whose stomach churns with greater frequency at every new change added or direction taken recently. I really wish the Devs would adopt George Costanza's "Do the Opposite" philosophy. In short, no matter what one's first inclination is on any decision, stop and do the opposite.


But yeah, no to niche servers.

[Ganolyn]

How about they get rid of all the drek and make me excited at the prospect of finding a +1 weapon again?

[Chaos000]

And poison and disease immunity actually was an immunity!

With the exception of the death XP penalty - which I'd love to see back - the rest of it is meh. It only affects noobs who don't know about pots, that's it.

Bringing that back would just be making that game harder in the dumbest way possible. I know that's par for the course but it's just dumb.

After ending a quest successfully you did not exit the dungeon as if you've used a rest shrine.

There was no "sharing quests" if you made the run all the way to Hound of Xoriat and realized you forgot to talk to the guy outside you had to recall out and make the run all over again.

[Singular]

A lot of good ideas, and I agree on the 3.5ed rules. But I do think that ship sailed a long time ago.

I think our versions of dumbed down are quite different. We have barter boxes for instant shroud recipes, normal doors where locked ones were, bravery bonus, xp stones, +4 tome sales....

IMHO, that reduces the skill level required, resulting in dumbing down the game

Barter boxes are good. Not having them requires only that your computer can open up a shroud loot planner while DDO awaits your decisions in the background. Not having them increases no skill whatsoever.

The other stuff, I agree. The whole power creep thing is strange to me - if we all know it's happening, and why it's happening, why can't we stop it?