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[SirShen]

1. No renown for kills in Epic GH or end rewards.
2. No epic fragments from kills.
3. No epic chests?
4. The Rare - Druuhi The Maddened Seer in ruins of GH has no chest.
6. The Green Giant in Tor has OCD and throws you and throws you.
7. So nasty to put air eles in with blue dragon and giant.
8. I spent most of my time in white dragon and giant on my bottom or unable to move or tooooo slow to even attack.
9. End rewards all level 1 except orc reward that was at right level.

Also i completed the arc and still cant get into reavers.

I state this is all on casual epic solo.

Good points.
1. Enjoyed the new part in Tor.
2. Enjoyed the dragon rares in ruins of GH.
3. Like the new Augment slots for all levels.
4. Like that ruins of GH is an epic area and the graphics have been improved.
5. Like that Crucible is not a flagging quest in the new orc.

That is for now.

[OpallNotten]

+1

Might not agree 100% with your likes and dislikes but I think it is awesome you (and many others) are out playing the preview

Question:

From everything I am reading about u17......It appears to me that no new quests were added? Only different rare encounters?
I am reading the quests themselves are a bit different? But at the end of the day, they are still the same GH quests?

I was kinda hoping to see a continuation of a story line......not rehashed old content...

Please tell me I am wrong.



Opall

[Brattyone]

+1

Might not agree 100% with your likes and dislikes but I think it is awesome you (and many others) are out playing the preview

Question:

From everything I am reading about u17......It appears to me that no new quests were added? Only different rare encounters?
I am reading the quests themselves are a bit different? But at the end of the day, they are still the same GH quests?

I was kinda hoping to see a continuation of a story line......not rehashed old content...

Please tell me I am wrong.



Opall

Hmm, I've only done two of the quests (cabal and feast or famine) and both were pretty much the same as heroic but beefed up in mob hp. The wilderness area is the same but includes a more drastic look, along with lots of giants. I'll get to explore more later but so far I haven't been surprised.

[TrinityTurtle]

Great write up. I love seeing posts with actual points, and the positive as well as the negative vs. emotional ranting responses that once can't discuss.

I got stuck on the Green Giant, and cant' stop thinking Turbine is trying to make me eat my veggies to stay healthy and play longer, thus ensuring their income. It's too early in the morning for me to be reading forums, clearly. : )

[good_ole_corwin]

Do we actually know WHY the hell they removed Crucible as a flagging quest? What changes to the storyline did they make? Am I the only one that, while not particularly liking the quest, thinks its a bad idea?

[shadereaper33]

Do we actually know WHY the hell they removed Crucible as a flagging quest? What changes to the storyline did they make? Am I the only one that, while not particularly liking the quest, thinks its a bad idea?

I just got done running it actually, and it seems that epic gianthold actually takes place chronologically after the events in reavers refuge, which happens after heroic gianthold, obviously. So, you aren't trying to join the stormreaver's army this time around, but you have to go into cabal to find something for the story line. Don't want to give away too much, but the change does make sense given the context.

[PurpleFooz]

Do we actually know WHY the hell they removed Crucible as a flagging quest? What changes to the storyline did they make? Am I the only one that, while not particularly liking the quest, thinks its a bad idea?

We know that a lot of people love Crucible, and at the same time other people avoid it. Such quests have a place in DDO, but we feel they're better as stand-alone quests. If you like it, you can play it. If you don't like it, you don't have to.

If Tor and the Raid had the same audience of players who liked/didn't like Crucible, then we probably would have kept it as a prerequisite.

[shadereaper33]

We know that a lot of people love Crucible, and at the same time other people avoid it. Such quests have a place in DDO, but we feel they're better as stand-alone quests. If you like it, you can play it. If you don't like it, you don't have to.

If Tor and the Raid had the same audience of players who liked/didn't like Crucible, then we probably would have kept it as a prerequisite.

Having been in-game and seen the changes firsthand, along with this explanation, the change to the flagging quests makes sense. That said, the patch notes need to be a LOT clearer on what was changed in the flagging, and WHY it was changed. Seemingly random changes to well established game mechanics and lore generally don't sit well with a lot of the player base.

[Dhalgren]

We know that a lot of people love Crucible, and at the same time other people avoid it. Such quests have a place in DDO, but we feel they're better as stand-alone quests. If you like it, you can play it. If you don't like it, you don't have to.

If Tor and the Raid had the same audience of players who liked/didn't like Crucible, then we probably would have kept it as a prerequisite.

Please reconsider this change on heroic. On epic, fine, whatever.

I have a hard time with "You have passed the test! You have proven your worth to us by running a completely average quest which presents you with nothing you haven't seen a million times already. Welcome!"

Rites of passage should be just that.

[sirgog]

We know that a lot of people love Crucible, and at the same time other people avoid it. Such quests have a place in DDO, but we feel they're better as stand-alone quests. If you like it, you can play it. If you don't like it, you don't have to.

If Tor and the Raid had the same audience of players who liked/didn't like Crucible, then we probably would have kept it as a prerequisite.

I think this is a good idea.

Witness how seldom Cursed Crypt is run because it has one of the most polarizing quests in the game (Tomb of the Tormented) as a prerequisite.

Crucible, Tomb of the Tormented, The Pit and the like require a certain mood for me to enjoy them.

[Seljuck]

I think this is a good idea.

Witness how seldom Cursed Crypt is run because it has one of the most polarizing quests in the game (Tomb of the Tormented) as a prerequisite.

Crucible, Tomb of the Tormented, The Pit and the like require a certain mood for me to enjoy them.

Personally i like all of above quests, especially The pit. I really don't know why people have problems with it? Its quite straight from beginning to end. Apparently I'm different.

[sirgog]

Personally i like all of above quests, especially The pit. I really don't know why people have problems with it? Its quite straight from beginning to end. Apparently I'm different.

I like it if I'm in a mood for it. It's just not the core DDO gameplay which is about combat. But it's a good diversion.

[Persiflage]

I think this is a good idea.

Witness how seldom Cursed Crypt is run because it has one of the most polarizing quests in the game (Tomb of the Tormented) as a prerequisite.

Crucible, Tomb of the Tormented, The Pit and the like require a certain mood for me to enjoy them.

Absolutely. What he said.

If they were taking Crucible away or even just taking away those elements which make it "unique" (ahem) then I'd man the barricades with the rest of you, even though I hate it like poison. I am, instead, just really pleased that it's no longer a prerequisite for what is still pretty much a must-have raid and I can't see this harming anything about the game, so... great. Those who want to can still run the quest and display their gaming credentials. I'll still join my guildies and help out when someone wants to run it for XP and favour; I just won't need to wait until someone else wants to do it before I can flag for Tor.

[TrinityTurtle]

Tomb of the tormented needs a pass. It's a horrible quest design. And I'm not talking that it's hard, becuase it's not, or that it's different, the reason I say it's horrible design is that you basically have a party standing around forever doing a lot of nothing. Maybe turning it into an escort quest with the rat or something, anything for the party to do.

[Jay203]

does that mean we're removing Holding for Reinforcement from being a prereq to flag for threnal south?

we have way more hatred for that one quest than any other quest in the game

[dragonofsteel2]

We know that a lot of people love Crucible, and at the same time other people avoid it. Such quests have a place in DDO, but we feel they're better as stand-alone quests. If you like it, you can play it. If you don't like it, you don't have to.

If Tor and the Raid had the same audience of players who liked/didn't like Crucible, then we probably would have kept it as a prerequisite.

To me this is not a good reason to switch the role of this quest. There is plenty of flaging quest I hate. Reality if just did because people did not like that quest you can be switching flaging quest all day. I don't like cabel for one hmmm. Though lets get to my reason I disagree with this reasoning.

1. The quest only needs to be ran ONCE, yes this is one time flaging unless you changing raid flagging.

2. The quest can be ran on epic casual or even casual to flag if you hate the quest.

3. There nothing the require you to run Reaver if hate the quest that bad you can not stick it through one single flaging run.

4. Reality if place loot that people want in this quest it does not stop the compliants about the quest.

So for these reason I disagree with your reasoning, but hey that me.

One last thing please get remove of me running ADQ1 I hate running out to this quest just to flag for ADQ2. Also I hate per raid for Titan it be nice if got remove that as well please. Since you guys open the bag of things we dislike we should just keep going . Please give devs more quest you hate running to change are remove requirments to run.

[orakio]

I just want to point out that it isn't just a storyline thing, I am 99% sure the new raid requires a seperate flagging run as the "return to X quests" are entirely different quests than their heroic equivalent. I.e. flagging for heroic reaver's fate is not the same thing as flagging for the new epic raid "Fall of Truth".

Hard to tell as the raid was locked until it gets unlocked tonight, so we will see then.

[alvarego]

We know that a lot of people love Crucible, and at the same time other people avoid it. Such quests have a place in DDO, but we feel they're better as stand-alone quests. If you like it, you can play it. If you don't like it, you don't have to.

If Tor and the Raid had the same audience of players who liked/didn't like Crucible, then we probably would have kept it as a prerequisite.

Soooo we can expect something about Coalescence Chamber in a future *daydream*

[4tonmantis]

Played EH TOR and noticed the same as the things in the OP. There are a few other problems too, like ml 1 and 2 end rewards, regular relics dropping in epic chests rather than the restored ones, giant in black dragon constantly knocking entire party back (make him harder..that's fine.. but knocking you all the way across the room is just annoying), epic ward on giants in TOR was preventing Wail but not FoD, Madstone Rod in Epic levels is still normal old Madstone Rod.

The actual gameplay on EH was a lot like playing the Heroic version only they had more hitpoints and a few of the fights got a little dicey. The quest is listed as level 24, we were in on EH, I was on a 21 and still breezed through. I definitely prefer this to it taking 10 minutes to beat down a single mob, breaking all your gear, casters having to use a full stack of pots, and boss fights that can take 1hr+.. (ie.. the old epics), but it seems that for the most part the answer to making things more challenging is.. give it more HP and Epic Ward.

Give the mobs DR 20/Epic instead of more HP.. or both for Hard. Something subtle to rebalance the difficulty is absolutely better than the polarized tweaking we're seeing.
/rant

[good_ole_corwin]

I just got done running it actually, and it seems that epic gianthold actually takes place chronologically after the events in reavers refuge, which happens after heroic gianthold, obviously. So, you aren't trying to join the stormreaver's army this time around, but you have to go into cabal to find something for the story line. Don't want to give away too much, but the change does make sense given the context.

I could understand that. Its just that the release notes say "Raid and quest flagging mechanics have been changed for heroic and epic versions of Gianthold." - not just epic, but heroic as well. Can somebody verify if the change has been made to heroic Reaver as well, as the release notes would suggest?