U17 epic dragon armors

[Epitome]

Are these fullplates the highest AC in the game now for armors when adding their armor bonus with their max dex bonuses?

[Dolphious]

With the exception of the heroic comms, these armors are not that hard to get ingredients for - so maybe they should be on par with clerics, Druids, wizards etc hand ins

However if heroic comms remain as hard to get as the have been to date maybe we won't see that many people investing in these armors.

I will wait and see what the vanilla raid options look like and a genuine idea of the heroic comms drop rate before I get excited.

As I think about it more, I'm inclined to agree with this. Looks like flawless scales will drop like regular scales do now on live (not like they did before the recent boost), which means 3-6 scales total for a EH run (between all the dragons), so about 4-5 EH runs and some trading and you have the scales. Relics are even easier to get than faction coms in eveningstar. Heroic Coms are a big sticking point for those of us that are trying to upgrade a CiTW item, but if you're not doing that it's pretty easy to get just three coms.

IOW, they're just not the grind that the other epic dragonscale armors are, and I think their power was designed to be "solid endgame" but not the new "best of the best."

I don't know how keen on this design I am, I kind of liked "dragonscale armor" being something you worked towards as a long term goal, but I'm not the one who makes those calls, so it is what it is.

The helms also look quite nice, so I think you can kind of take the set bonus as a given if you wear the armor.

[ormsbygore]

***Repost***
This is a repost of my opinion on the Dragonscale Armor/Helms from the "Epic Gianthold - Other Quest Loot" thread, but I thought it might fit here as well.
***


As a lot of people have already done...I'd like to comment on the Dragonscale Armor/Helms. Most all the other loot I've seen posted looks really nice, even if I don't have a use for it, somebody will.



#1 - I LOVE the fact that you've added a set bonus for the Dragonscale Armor/Helms. The bonuses are a little underwhelming, but they are there, it's a start at least. I know I've put in my suggestions for this stuff in the past, and plenty of others have as well.



#2 - I'm kinda disappointed that the Dragon Helms don't have Breath Weapon clickies anymore. It would be really cool, if for nothing else but a role play factor or nostalgia, to have a 3-5 charge breath weapon clickie(maybe a toned down version of the Dragon Breath ability from the Sorc ED) that refreshes a charge every minute or so.

Also assuming that the +3 exceptional stat on the helms is random, similar to a bunch of the newer loot. DDOwiki shows that they have +8 or +3 exceptional stat bonus, of a random stat between a predetermined set of three stats depending on the helm.(+8 or +3 Exception of --> Black/White: Str, Con, Dex; Blue: Int, Cha, Wis)



#3 - Dragonscale Armors...I can't say much that others haven't, but I'll add my 2cp. First thing I'd like to note is they have a higher ML(minimum level), but are either on par or not as good as the Cormyrian Green/Red armors, in my opinion.

Blue - Redundant caster based effects. Not necessarily a bad thing, different people with different builds slot different things in different places...this requires a bit of redundancy. On the other hand, it's going to be new and shiny, so everyone is going to want a reason to want it...and it's kinda bland, save the set bonus. It's also not a big step up from the non-Epic version, same goes for the rest of them. I believe it, and the white armor, should have a unique effect similar to the black armor.

-- Suggestion:
----- Arcane Resurgence(spell point conservation proc): (small%)5% chance on casting a spell, regenerate (small%)3-8% SP over 30 seconds.(doesn't stack if recast, just resets timer)

White - Basically it's in the same situation as the blue, redundant tank based effects, not bad...but not the "Ooo! Shiney!" everyone is looking for. Not going to repeat.

-- Suggestion:
----- Hardened Scales(defensive bonus guard): (small%)5% chance on being hit, gain (small# eNAC or % AC)+2 Exceptional NAC and (small#)+2 PRR for 30 seconds.[Stackable 5-10x?(would be +10-20 eNAC and +10-20 PRR, once max stack is reached, can't proc for another 60-120 seconds?)...if not then increase the bonus received and duration]

Black - Don't have much to say for this one. Like most have said before me, it's fairly decent. I'd personally like to see it geared toward ranged a bit more, but I like the underdog that is ranged combat. It would also be nice if this one had a similar damage proc like the red armor from VoN(Eternal Fire, except acid based).




Just for a comparison:
VoN Red Armor - (ML: 20) +8, 6 different effects, 2 slots
Cormyrian Red/Green Armors - (ML: 23) +9, 6 different effects, no slots
GH Black/Blue/White Armors - (ML: 25) +7, 4 different effects, 1 set bonus effect(requires second item), 1 slot

That comparison right there just doesn't add up...
If nothing else, give them another +1 and another effect, to be on par with the existing epic dragonscale armors.

[voodoogroves]

Love it if the white had freezing ice or freezing ice guard; thinking of the dragon fight in Tor.

Blue needs something else.

[muny21]

The blue scale armor is definitely something I would be skipping if it goes live as is. Just not worth giving up the spidersilk robe for one extra spell pen and 15 spell power, when worn together with helm. My suggestion for the blue armor:

1. Add major lore, or even superior lore would not be overpowered. If you think about it, sorcs only use two major lines of spells and usually carry two superior lore max spell power for that school on two scepters. For example, I have one air/water sorc and one water/air sorc and both carry a scepter of 120 glac/mag and superior ice/lightning lore. When a mob is immune to ice/electric just switch scepters and now have superior lore for whatever spell I am casting. Therefore, putting superior lore on an epic item just does not seem over powered to me, just a simpler way of have superior lore without having to swap gear.

2. Magnetism 130 instead of potency 80, it should be the most powerful electric source in game since the blue dragon is an electric dragon.

3. Can keep the greater spell pen IX, that is the only thing really worth it as is.

4. Evocation Augmentation IX, would say Arcane Augmentation IX but that might be a bit much.

5. The set bonus is ok with the 15 spell power. Could use a bump with % chance to Spell Critical and Critical Damage Multiplier for electric spells like TOD set. Give another option to slot that bonus.

6. Keep the blue slot.

All in all, I think the blue armor should be all about nuking power like the blue dragon and since it is an electric dragon should be the most powerful source for adding power to that spell school. Just like the green armor is suited towards the green dragon.

[Missing_Minds]

Feather,

By now I'm certain you've read all the reviews players have done with the armor, and I think I've got an idea of why you've selected what you have selected.

I'm going to go ahead and list out those thoughts, and if you are so inclined correct me please.

You've made them weaker than what players have been expecting because of the ease of getting the inital set. No favor requirements or anything. Just the scales.
You built in upgrades via slots.
You expect these slots to add a lot of ability/power to the armor for players so they can build in what they really want.
You expect slots to be a gear game changer in so much we can have more of what we really like in regions unlike everyone wearing the same thing. Aka going back to the premise that no one item should be the defacto standard.
Not all augments are finished and once finished (in U18 maybe) more things will become very apparent for the decisions that were made.

But over all, what has confused me the most were the set bonus with the helms and the helms themselves.
(1st. Thank you for making set bonus with them. Even if I consider some very lackluster at the moment, I am glad for the option.)
Why the utter change away from the stat bonus that they used to have? Or is that an "oops"
I would suggest that in addition to the set bonus, but that the +3 insight stat bonus the helm offers, the set bonus bumps that up to a +5 insight stat bonus. (not stacking, obviously as only the highest value of the same name bonus applies)
As was pointed out once before, with the Blue helm, if it took a set bonus to get major arcane lore, why not a set bonus here to get major arcane lore just like the AM TOD belt/ring set?

Any how, the weekend is fast approaching. I hope you'll be able to enjoy one again soon.

[LVSammy]

I know many people have beat this to death, but i need to add my thoughts to it as well, so hopefully this tragedy does not go live. I have been looking forward to epic blue armor since i got my base set and thought, "wow, could you imagine this epic?!" Needless to say, I am VERY disappointed. Most people argue that the arcane lore should be major or even superior, but I can understand why it has not been made so (though i think it's a great idea that when you equip the set with the helm, you could easily upgrade it to at least major). The biggest problems that I have with it are that, 1) It is WAY too redundant, and 2) It has absolutely NOTHING to do with being from an electric based dragon (with the exception of the resist...)

Now first off, on this point, it must be obvious that pretty much EVERY ability on this "epic" robe is accounted for on multiple other items/sets that make up the majority of end game gear used today. Specifically the thing that gets me is that this is, or rather should be, a damage focused armor. Primarily sorc based, but still really good for a wizzy/divine/other when they wanna dish out damage/evoc magic this should stay focused on that idea. Therefore, spell pen has no place on this armor. At first thought, i wanted to say that it should have greater arcane augmentation IX, however, after reading the previous posts, i LOVE the idea of even just evocation augmentation, tho there has yet to be precedent for it, it really speaks across the class lines. Either way, plz replace the spell pen with some sort of spell augmentation. Secondly, the potency is ridiculous. Plenty of other sources; please change to either 130+ electric or even better, +30 or more implement bonus. Neither of those options are overpowered, but are at least still useful, even if minimally. Want to also mention, that I love the idea of transform kinetic energy, or some other sort of spell cost saver like the 10% mana cost reduction or a mana regen proc is a GREAT idea. Lastly, I really would like to see electric absorbtion as well, if only as a flavor tie in, or something else to relate to being an electric dragonscale armor.

Well, there's my two cents... I REALLY hope we can make a difference here and that this armor doesnt go live this way, would be such a HUGE dissappointment compared to the otherwise amazing looking update.

[Lycurgus]

Although the blue armor seems lackluster in some regards, the set has some appeal for warforged AM wizards.

+3 insight on the helm opens up the trinket for litany. G spell pen on the armor makes up for losing the CitW set bonus. The blue dragon set + litany conjoined with the tablecloth cloak and Twilight seems like it would be an optimal gear layout for WF AMs.

[Dieterstrife]

That black dragon armor.

The only question I have now is very, very plainly simple.

The helm. What will be the stats on it. Because at this exact moment, I'm pleading and praying for one thing and one thing only.

+3 Insightful Wisdom.

[Candela90]

BLUE - pretty good but the bonus is not really usefull. Id raise the bonus of both to 40-50 alchemical spell power and made it +8 enhancement OR instead of raising spell power Id add 12% crit for having set helm + armor.

WHITE - while bonus is pretty good here it should be protection +8 , enh bonus +8 + some kind guard (desint? earthgrab?)

BLACK - +8 enh bonus as well. Id also add resistance +8 to it as its mainly for rangers and rogues and monks who would love to get better saves. And set bonus is just... meh :P. Make it 6% doublestrike and +2 artifact dmg to ranger AND melee. Or maybe fit resistance +8 in here as a part of set, cause grinding for both items to get +3% doublestrike on melee is a joke. Black itself is good armor but... with this set bonus its better to get armor with the same effects for relics - loosing only blue slot and 3% melee doublestrike and not having to grind XXX times and freeing helm spot for sth more usefull :P.

[Eighnuss]

Would it be too much to ask for the standard blue docent + composite plating to show a bit more blue scale and a bit less crappy docent? Compare robe vs composite plating docent:



Come on now, I shouldn't have to waste a feat on mithril body just to look cool.

[Feather_of_Sun]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

[SableShadow]

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

Aw ... well, it's best to take some time when you can, else you end up opening Notepad++ to find 5G of ...


"All work and no play make Feather a dull boy."



And if you haven't got your health, you haven't got anything.

[Viisari]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

I'll give 5/5 for these changes, especially the blue scale just got a whole lot more interesting.

[Lighti]

And the White goes from completely usless, to nigh on useless. Sheild Bonus needs to be changed or made to stack.

[dejafu]

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

I've added in two upgrades for each of them.

Black:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Armor-Piercing 20%

White:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: +8 Protection and +8 Shield bonus to AC.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

This makes them all solidly the highest AC armors of their categories.

Black becomes one of only two items with Armor-Piercing 20% (the other being the new shortsword Rebellion).

White is the only source of +8 Protection.

Blue is the only source of Major Arcane Lore, if you don't count the Rakhir's Sash/Ring set bonus from Tower of Despair, which is just the +0.5x spell critical damage aspect of Major Arcane Lore.

Hopefully these changes will be in your next Lamannia build. If not, then you'll see them in the one after that.

Unfortunately, I've run out of weekend/holiday time (today was Martin Luther King Jr. Day) to go back and adjust this stuff, so there's unlikely to be many other adjustments to Update 17 treasure.

Feather, you don't get nearly enough credit. You've really stepped up to find ways to make loot better in ways that make sense (e.g. Caught in the Web raid loot), and I'm VERY happy you've decided to answer the request to bring in Major Arcane Lore on an item that definitely deserves it. The fact that you take holiday time to do this is something I plan to bring up every time somebody makes some offhand snotty comment about "lazy" loot design.

Big kudos!

And the White goes from completely usless, to nigh on useless. Sheild Bonus needs to be changed or made to stack.

While I think useless is an exaggeration, I agree that white could use a little something-something. Maybe make the shield bonus also grant immunity to Magic Missiles like the Shield spell?

[Viisari]

And the White goes from completely usless, to nigh on useless. Sheild Bonus needs to be changed or made to stack.

Man it's not useless for monks who want AC or twf/thf toons with sufficient AC

[LVSammy]

First off,

Flawless Dragonscale armor/robe/docents didn't feel Epic enough.

Blue:
Upgrade 1: +8 Enhancement Bonus (Robes go from +10 to +11 Armor)
Upgrade 2: Major Arcane Lore

Thank you! It is so nice to see that we little people are actually heard AND listened to. Great job Feather.

However,

I'll give 5/5 for these changes, especially the blue scale just got a whole lot more interesting.

Agreed, but only 4/5. But I still think that the spell pen should be some sort of augmentation instead. I'm not asking for both, I just think there are so many other sources of spell pen out there, that we need more items with the augmentation version (and by the way, all aug abilities should be for arcane AND divine, it's just fair).

[Lighti]

Man it's not useless for monks who want AC or twf/thf toons with sufficient AC

And how many of those will choose white over Red? Why not make it stack so all charecters that want a Defensive benefit can use it. Makes no sense at all.

[DrunkenBuddha]

I gotta say that I'm grateful to FoS for listening to the community commentary. This type of interaction and response is quite helpful.