New Elite Epic Tor Items

[shadereaper33]

People need to stop treating every new item as if it must be the new best in slot.

True, not everything needs to be BiS, but there should at least be a viable time where the item could be used by some people. Items like that khopesh are legitimately bad enough on their own that I can't see them being used, ever, by anyone. Maybe, if you leveled your character in some sort of vacuum, and went from the khopesh out of the lordsmarch chain, I could see using this, but other than that, I think this item is a waste of chest space.

[Musouka]

True, not everything needs to be BiS, but there should at least be a viable time where the item could be used by some people. Items like that khopesh are legitimately bad enough on their own that I can't see them being used, ever, by anyone. Maybe, if you leveled your character in some sort of vacuum, and went from the khopesh out of the lordsmarch chain, I could see using this, but other than that, I think this item is a waste of chest space.

Yeah but this khopesh will never get used even against elves so its a waste and actually hurts the playerbase because it affects the drops on the other items.

Have we forgotten that this game isn't just for hardcore players. There are people out there that make crazy builds, but still have fun doing so.

I'm sorry you believe that that hurts the playerbase. I don't know how affecting the drops of other items hurts the playerbase. I had to keep doing Reaver's Fate 20 times til I got Madstone boots. Should all those other items be considered as hurting the playerbase, because I didn't want or couldn't use them? Should half the items I've never made a character that could truly benefit from hurt me as a player? NO.

I've also have seen lots of threads about people wanting challenge or nerfs, yet this weapon is one way to nerf yourself for a little challenge.

[shadereaper33]

Have we forgotten that this game isn't just for hardcore players. There are people out there that make crazy builds, but still have fun doing so.

I'm sorry you believe that that hurts the playerbase. I don't know how affecting the drops of other items hurts the playerbase. I had to keep doing Reaver's Fate 20 times til I got Madstone boots. Should all those other items be considered as hurting the playerbase, because I didn't want or couldn't use them? Should half the items I've never made a character that could truly benefit from hurt me as a player? NO.

I've also have seen lots of threads about people wanting challenge or nerfs, yet this weapon is one way to nerf yourself for a little challenge.

The issue is that creating such sub-par loot can reduce people's desire to run that content. If the dev's continue to put out sub-par loot, which in turns continues to reduce people's desire to run content, those people will eventually lose their desire to log in and play in the first place.

[Musouka]

The issue is that creating such sub-par loot can reduce people's desire to run that content. If the dev's continue to put out sub-par loot, which in turns continues to reduce people's desire to run content, those people will eventually lose their desire to log in and play in the first place.

So there is nothing at all that you would run new Epic Tor for? Or a couple items that you have an opinion about would prevent you from running Tor for other items?

I have an opinion about some of the ToD set rings, but that never stopped me from running ToD at all. Heck, I ran VoD countless times on my FvS, and I definitely cannot use any of the items from there for my build, yet I still ran it over and over.

If you already have Gianthold or VIP, then what's the big deal? You didn't buy it just for Epic Gianthold. You're not being charged any extra for the content they are adding.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

So there is nothing at all that you would run new Epic Tor for? Or a couple items that you have an opinion about would prevent you from running Tor for other items?

I have an opinion about some of the ToD set rings, but that never stopped me from running ToD at all. Heck, I ran VoD countless times on my FvS, and I definitely cannot use any of the items from there for my build, yet I still ran it over and over.

If you already have Gianthold or VIP, then what's the big deal? You didn't buy it just for Epic Gianthold. You're not being charged any extra for the content they are adding.

It's not an issue of whether an item is specifically useful to you, or to me, or to shadowreaper. It's an issue of whether the item is useful to anyone at all. For an item that is not apparently useful to anybody at all, it's more than reasonable to suggest it be improved a little. Otherwise it's a waste of chest space and a waste of dev time spent making it, because nobody will ever want or use it.

This is a problem most of the epic items in the desert originally suffered from, and as a result all of that content, back when the cap was 20, was really just niche content that only a subset of the player base ever bothered with. It was part of what caused a split where guilds that used to run together soon found only 1/3 running the endgame content, 1/3 running continuous TRs, and 1/3 slowly dwindling, cutting back on playing time, and taking breaks or quitting.

Items don't need to be best in slot or desirable to everybody. But every item should be made so it will at least be useful to some people some of the time. Anything that doesn't only serves to hurt the game. It certainly doesn't help casual players.

[Musouka]

Items don't need to be best in slot or desirable to everybody. But every item should be made so it will at least be useful to some people some of the time. Anything that doesn't only serves to hurt the game. It certainly doesn't help casual players.

So I cannot take that khopesh to Eveningstar to help me farm the houses on a character that hasn't taken the khopesh prof? Also, who knows what future content will include. We might just be fighting lots of elves.

[maddmatt70]

So I cannot take that khopesh to Eveningstar to help me farm the houses on a character that hasn't taken the khopesh prof? Also, who knows what future content will include. We might just be fighting lots of elves.

Are you daft. I mean you just pick up any of gadzillion rapiers or whatever that are better and you are proficient in. As I said in my post earlier this is not a good weapon even against elves. Random loot gen is better.

[SealedInSong]

True, not everything needs to be BiS, but there should at least be a viable time where the item could be used by some people. Items like that khopesh are legitimately bad enough on their own that I can't see them being used, ever, by anyone. Maybe, if you leveled your character in some sort of vacuum, and went from the khopesh out of the lordsmarch chain, I could see using this, but other than that, I think this item is a waste of chest space.

Agreed. The only times I could see this khopesh being desirable at all would be for someone lacking khopesh proficiency who wants to TWF with a superior khopesh in their main hand (drow khopesh, alchemical, crafted), for use against elves/drow (tons of them in Faerun but I'm not convinced it outdpses a drow khopesh or alchemical), or if you haven't farmed very much for better khopeshes.

Hammer of the Leaden Clouds I was very excited for but there are more places for stunning +10 than ever, and the DPS mutations on it seem pretty weak. No crit tweaking of any kind. Sonic spell power might be nice for the occasional air savant or bard, but I can't even bring myself to be excited to project a flavor savant or bard build that would use hammers. They are too weak from lvls 1-23 and even then only competitive when in dreadnought, a rather suboptimal destiny for a savant or hammer bard (my opinion).

[Glenalth]

This was a perfect place for an Epic Elf Bane like the giant version on the Epic Vulkoorim Dagger.

Throw Keen on there so it can keep it's "khopesh for dummies" feel and have a niche as a melee weapon for characters that have no melee feats at all.

[Terebinthia]

This was a perfect place for an Epic Elf Bane like the giant version on the Epic Vulkoorim Dagger.

Throw Keen on there so it can keep it's "khopesh for dummies" feel and have a niche as a melee weapon for characters that have no melee feats at all.

This would be really nice. i would be tempted to play with it and the Epic Elemental Khopesh on my melee / caster FvS then, although it is always hard to give up the Epic Sirrocco

[Arlathen]

People need to stop treating every new item as if it must be the new best in slot.

Feel free to quote my other continuous complaints of bad items and "where's the latest uber!?!?"

Oh wait... There are none.

[shadereaper33]

So I cannot take that khopesh to Eveningstar to help me farm the houses on a character that hasn't taken the khopesh prof? Also, who knows what future content will include. We might just be fighting lots of elves.

Well, you can do that, but you would be significantly better off picking up a decent random loot gen weapon from a broker or the AH that you have proficiency in already, and using that instead of the khopesh. At the absolute best, that khopesh is a 3d8+7, 17-20/x3 khopesh with 1d10 additional damage of an element of your choice and greater elf bane. That is barely better than a +6 blazing khopesh of greater elf bane, and no where near as good as say, a +6 blazing khopesh of mauling. Toss around some other nice weapon affix combos that you can find on loot gen, such as pandemonium of mauling for example, and that named khopesh is barely worth the plat the nearest vendor will give you. Yes, there is a circumstance where one could feasibly use that weapon and not be innately gimping themselves just by equipping it, but there are so many other, better choices to be found for all of those situations that the khopesh shouldn't even be in the same discussion. Even if U18 is literally nothing but elves, I would still rather have a halfway decent loot gen weapon than that piece of trash.

[Matuse]

Except for ML, Hardness, and Durability, they're EXACTLY the same as the EH version.

The EH -> EE knuckles go up a die step. It's not listed on the item tooltip itself for technical reasons. Feather indicated that they want to include that information, but it's low priority right now.

[Musouka]

I just still don't understand how 1 item will ruin the whole pack for people, and would make it so people just do not want to run the content. I remember when making a monk, getting to the right level to use the relic robes, then the assault on stormreach came out and garments of equilibrium seem to be the outfit to get for a monk. This didn't stop me from running Gianthold for other items.

[shadereaper33]

I just still don't understand how 1 item will ruin the whole pack for people, and would make it so people just do not want to run the content. I remember when making a monk, getting to the right level to use the relic robes, then the assault on stormreach came out and garments of equilibrium seem to be the outfit to get for a monk. This didn't stop me from running Gianthold for other items.

Well, for example, people who like to run khopesh builds haven't exactly had anything to work for in quite a while. If my main were still a dual-wielding khopesh build atm, instead of progressing through lives towards completionist, I would not be very interested in this pack for that character. Having 1 or 2 sub-par items likely won't ruin a pack for most people, but when you consistently get updates will multiple sub-par items, a lot of people will start to get disheartened. Look at all the complaining over the last few updates about not having a new weapon to compete with the eSoS. We have had 2 raids that had a chance to provide items that would compete with the eSoS, and that sword is still the king of THF. That means that anyone who has an eSoS has not had any new weapons to really try to get on those characters. If you think spending multiple updates, over a few years, without getting a nice, new upgrade for your weapon won't ruin the game for you, well, it must be nice to be you. Sure, there are some items in eGH that are really nice, even more if you aren't already uber-geared, but every single time we see an item that could be really good, and is just such a complete pile of garbage, it is a huge let-down.

[RoelHeeswijk]

People need to stop treating every new item as if it must be the new best in slot.

If you're making an elf bane, it might at least be best in slot against ELVES, right?

But sadly a ML12 Lit II khopesh that works on about anything is more damage than a ML25 very specific weapon. As is any random holy burst/annihilating/something khopesh of greater elf bane from AH or cannith crafting.

A real missed opportunity. That epic bane (including some or all out of: 6d6dmg, elf slayer or that weird 2d8 'extra damage') would have made it relevant, flavorful and certainly still reasonable. Please change this if you still have the time before it launches on live :-/ (Instead of after 2 years...)

edit: I now realize this is even an 'epic elite' version. Can't wait to see the epic normal/hard versions

[Recared]

Nice goggles, but subtract 2 from that because of the ship buff guy. He seems to be a competence as well.

Hi there,

Is it confirmed/tested that the ship guy gives competence bonus to dmg? Description of buff icon does not specify "competence".

Thanks.

[Cetus]

Hi there,

Is it confirmed/tested that the ship guy gives competence bonus to dmg? Description of buff icon does not specify "competence".

Thanks.

Yea, I tested it when the bold trinket was released - back when we could see our damage mod in our inventory panel. The trinket states competence, and didn't stack with the damage guy on the ship.

I wish the devs would give that back to us, along with melee tactics DC's on the mouse-over. But thats a different topic.