The Juggernaut - Prime of the Warforged

[mrtweakin]

Awesome idea. Great videos. Now... who am I going to TR into this....

[goodspeed]

Howdy.

As a Side note the build works best as Completionist.
[[ And like that you almost lost me]]

Some example of the Playstyle of this build:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1h6klhxPwk
[COLOR=white]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yTPNTWtzo8[/COLOR[

And like that you put aside those doubts showing that WF actually had a future! GJ!!

**** that's just some sexy survival and dmg. Especially with blows pumping more sp back to you. I think I might very well make one of these. The only thing that would sort of suck would be the WF racial pre (whenever that comes. Before rapture im almost sure) being a lil ninny not playing nice with FOTW. But the hell with that. That survival just looks sexy.

I like the tensers to. I really liked it when I found out that it was an arti scroll spell for scribing. It's like divine power but awesomer. And being caster related just makes it better.

[WruntJunior]

And like that you put aside those doubts showing that WF actually had a future! GJ!!

WF have a future...just not as barbarians or fighters, it's as things like artificers and sorcs (and some FvS).

[FengXian]

+1

I like the concept a lot. I won't be able to try it out anytime soon because I already have other lives planned, but I love the idea of a melee WF comeback, and in what seems like a very funny to play form.

THF, self-recon, weapon buffs, tenser's, even ranged...looks amazing

[~reincarnation]

Just took 21 on this build. (Ranger Version) Thought I'd recheck forum!

Buffed my stats atm = 52/34/38/22/14/14. I got 675 HP and 1525 SP. Stunning DC atm is only 42, but seems to be doing well enough. Have pretty much no epic gear yet, and no twists worth mentioning. (10%SP and +6 Reflex saves >_>)

I haven't taken Improved Crit Melee/Ranged because I'm using MinII Greataxe/Longbow atm.. 3 Cleaves, [1]W, [2]W and [5]W + Lay Waste, which is [5]W also. Spam is wonderful!
I have every other feat on your list, except epic toughness which I'll take at 24. Have Extend/Stunning Blow in the place of the two Imp Crits.

Once I have Masters Blitz up and running, which is amazingly easy to keep up with the DPS I'm putting out, I'm hitting for a base of about 300-350, higher on cleaves. Crits range from 1-2k usually, occasionally 3-3.5k (stunned usually). It's awesome fun, reconstruct lands for 462 per cast, and 1082 on crit. (I think.)

Solo'd heaps of EH, I'm not confident to solo EE yet (not much gear), but just finished Von3 5 mins ago, was worried about the 3 champions, mainly the beholder.. 1 manyshot and I killed all 3!

Overall, excellent build. I've had more fun on this life than my past 10 combined. And I still have a long way to go!

Thanks.

[FengXian]

I strongly suggest you grab the improved crits as soon as you get better weapons because minII (while definitely nice) is a bit outdated now.

Other than that, looks great!

[~reincarnation]

Yep yep, am leveling as fast as I can, will start working on Citw soon. I plan on the same weapon set as OP.

[Machination]

DOOF is lvl 23 now, 24 very soon. Love the build. After playing stick builds for several lives, this one really is a lot of fun to play (and the best I've played).

I have not even left Fury ED because its just so much fun. After I hit cap, I will play around with LD and pick a favorite. I still have gear I'm waiting for at lvl 24, and need the epic toughness feat (which I am taking at lvl 24) for LD is my gut feeling.

Personal pet peeve is that the Master Artifice ring I can't slot in +1 STR and +2 Good Luck, which I had planned then found out Turbine is leaving those slots unavailable until U17. Oh well.

I agree with OP that U17 will open up a lot of options with slots. Immediate wants will be Dreampiercer, the poison quiver, and maybe a Blackscale Docent (using Livewood Core EH version now, its ok, but need to swap to EE version or Blackscale), maybe backstabber gloves (tough choice over EE Nether Grasps)

In the meantime farming more Heroic Commendations so I can upgrade all three Sireth, Pinion and Needle to Tier III is top priority. BTW, this build taking advantage of all three is a lot of fun. Also need to get a few more planer trinkets to swap out for different situations.

Someone posted they dropped improved crit for extend and something else. I would advise to stick with both improved crit bludgeon and ranged. Big difference in DPS.

[Pilgrim1]

How is arti a better platform on this build then sorc or wizard? Both have reconstruct and tensers, but the casters have haste, rage, displacment, and more. Does the traps and weapon buffs really make up for the worse spell selection that artificers get?

[WruntJunior]

How is arti a better platform on this build then sorc or wizard? Both have reconstruct and tensers, but the casters have haste, rage, displacment, and more. Does the traps and weapon buffs really make up for the worse spell selection that artificers get?

Most of the buffs you want from sorc come as clickies. I have yet to see a silver weapons or deadly weapons clicky.

[~reincarnation]

I was a huge fan of the Tukaw, but never good enough in epic.

Arti gets full BAB, more HP, more feats(impossible to take all the feats required for this build as sorc), gets all the weapon adders(deadly ftw), Armor of Speed makes Haste redundant, although my GS haste lasts 2 minutes when I feel the need to run fast.. + ranger sprint boost, 1 min haste pots. Displacement clickys last 2 minutes, rage comes in pots. Arti gives Damage/Skills clickys, and much higher UMD. Massive burst ranged dps with arti.
I also carry 16 minute GH and Jump clickys, 11 min Deathward clickys. No fail Recon/TS/Teleport/Heal/Resurection/Spell resist scrolls.

As a Tukaw I always found myself dropping aoe spells because DPS wasn't high enough, never enough SP because of that..

Played Tukaw to 25, currently Juggernaut 25, never going back to Tukaw. It's outdated now.

Awesome build!

[EllisDee37]

Personal pet peeve is that the Master Artifice ring I can't slot in +1 STR and +2 Good Luck, which I had planned then found out Turbine is leaving those slots unavailable until U17. Oh well.

If you mean the epic altar bug, it was fixed in the last hotfix so you should be able to slot +1 str and +2 good luck right now if you want. No time pressure though, since it's not like the ability is going away like false life in a yellow.

[Loriac]

I think this was asked earlier in the thread, but never answered as far as I saw:

Why no THF feats? Is it because they don't work with quarterstaves and therefore were left off the sireth version of the build?

If you're using eSoS (or some other two hander such as a maul / greataxe) is it worthwhile to put THF feats in (maybe dropping stunning blow and the 2 'optional' feat sets)?

[WruntJunior]

I think this was asked earlier in the thread, but never answered as far as I saw:

Why no THF feats? Is it because they don't work with quarterstaves and therefore were left off the sireth version of the build?

If you're using eSoS (or some other two hander such as a maul / greataxe) is it worthwhile to put THF feats in (maybe dropping stunning blow and the 2 'optional' feat sets)?

THF feats are taking a pretty decent nerf come u17 (with wild weapons being nerfed to match its description) for anyone that isn't a barbarian (as they get more benefit from them through enhancements)...and overall OC is much better than GTHF, especially as cleave and great cleave are so useful, and you can't really have both and still have the bow potential in this build.

Simply put, it's pretty much a choice for this build - manyshot w/ bow strength or GTHF - and it's a pretty easy one to make.

[Loriac]

THF feats are taking a pretty decent nerf come u17 (with wild weapons being nerfed to match its description) for anyone that isn't a barbarian (as they get more benefit from them through enhancements)...and overall OC is much better than GTHF, especially as cleave and great cleave are so useful, and you can't really have both and still have the bow potential in this build.

Simply put, it's pretty much a choice for this build - manyshot w/ bow strength or GTHF - and it's a pretty easy one to make.

I'm not sure I follow. I'm not sure what the wild weapons bug is (though someone earlier mentioned 90% damage, so I'm guessing its that rather than +9%, you get +90%). However, WF do get an enhancement line to glancing blows, so whilst not as good as for say a WF barb, you're still getting 6% chance of applying effects on glancing blows.

Bug notwithstanding, I'm sure I saw some analysis on another thread that showed that the glancing blow damage increase from the THF chain is greater than taking OC at any point, because effectively OC gives you an extra 10% base damage (+1 crit mult on 10% of hits) whilst glancing blows apply an extra 10% base damage over the full 2-20 d20 roll to multiple mobs.

I could be wrong on all this though; I haven't built / played a melee in a number of years now and am trying to understand the mechanics as I intend to build one in the next few weeks after TR'ing my arti.

Also, why would you need to drop OC on the build as listed? You could drop stunning blow, and the two optionals (mithral body + epic toughness say) and fit in 3xTHF. Or if you want stunning blow, you could drop mithral body and epic toughness and still have ITHF.

[Machination]

Thanks for the heads up I was indeed able to slot them.

If you mean the epic altar bug, it was fixed in the last hotfix so you should be able to slot +1 str and +2 good luck right now if you want. No time pressure though, since it's not like the ability is going away like false life in a yellow.

[Machination]

There are only three feats I could consider to swap out for GTHF line which are Precision, OC, and Epic Toughness.

I am spamming cleave/GC and lay waste and momentum swing.....so GTHF although nice, is really not as good as having OC, the extra HP and Precision when I want it. Its a give an take. OC in a one time manyshot IPP situation is going to do more damage on mobs than the GTHF line for 5 minutes. Also, when Unbridled Fury is going on you have 100% glancing blow anyway, so the GTHF line adds nothing there.

Precision is very nice to have in many situations (while ranging with xbow or bow mostly). I could lose it and not really be bothered

Epic Toughness is well, HP. And its hard to turn those down if you are running ee often. Could lose it and be OK I'm sure.

So, that would mean I could lose Precision and Epic Toughness, for ITHF. Which to me, is not a very good tradeoff.

All the other feats I built in (IPP, Manyshot, etc.) none of them could be spared for GTHF line as they all do a LOT more damage than GTHF line. It is a no brainer there.

I'm not sure I follow. I'm not sure what the wild weapons bug is (though someone earlier mentioned 90% damage, so I'm guessing its that rather than +9%, you get +90%). However, WF do get an enhancement line to glancing blows, so whilst not as good as for say a WF barb, you're still getting 6% chance of applying effects on glancing blows.

Bug notwithstanding, I'm sure I saw some analysis on another thread that showed that the glancing blow damage increase from the THF chain is greater than taking OC at any point, because effectively OC gives you an extra 10% base damage (+1 crit mult on 10% of hits) whilst glancing blows apply an extra 10% base damage over the full 2-20 d20 roll to multiple mobs.

I could be wrong on all this though; I haven't built / played a melee in a number of years now and am trying to understand the mechanics as I intend to build one in the next few weeks after TR'ing my arti.

Also, why would you need to drop OC on the build as listed? You could drop stunning blow, and the two optionals (mithral body + epic toughness say) and fit in 3xTHF. Or if you want stunning blow, you could drop mithral body and epic toughness and still have ITHF.

[Loriac]

There are only three feats I could consider to swap out for GTHF line which are Precision, OC, and Epic Toughness.

I am spamming cleave/GC and lay waste and momentum swing.....so GTHF although nice, is really not as good as having OC, the extra HP and Precision when I want it. Its a give an take. OC in a one time manyshot IPP situation is going to do more damage on mobs than the GTHF line for 5 minutes. Also, when Unbridled Fury is going on you have 100% glancing blow anyway, so the GTHF line adds nothing there.

Precision is very nice to have in many situations (while ranging with xbow or bow mostly). I could lose it and not really be bothered

Epic Toughness is well, HP. And its hard to turn those down if you are running ee often. Could lose it and be OK I'm sure.

So, that would mean I could lose Precision and Epic Toughness, for ITHF. Which to me, is not a very good tradeoff.

All the other feats I built in (IPP, Manyshot, etc.) none of them could be spared for GTHF line as they all do a LOT more damage than GTHF line. It is a no brainer there.

Thank you for the insight, its very helpful.

Having looked at the paladin version vs. the ranger one, I like the look of the ranger one better but am concerned about saves. What saves are you currently at - particularly reflex? I'm guessing that you could just about push reflex to 50 and fort to mid-40s, but I wouldn't want to be twisting saves in (with the possible exception of lithe, and that more for dodge % if one takes the mithral body feat).

[Carpone]

Artificer 16 Ranger 2 Monk 2

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical Slashing (Esos) / Improved Critical Bludgeoning (Sireth), Toughness, Quicken, Point Blank Shot, Improved Critical Ranged, Manyshot, Epic Toughness, Completionist, Overwhelming Critical, Stunning Blow, precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot

You could take Pally Pastlife instead of Completionist.
I currently don’t have Stunning blow, instead I have Zen Archery because I utilize the Sun Soul Set in Earth Stance with Sireth and Pinion.

I love this concept for a self-healing melee, but why Zen Archery and IPS?

Zen Archery: The Sun Soul earth stance proc is cool. But to take a feat for 20 seconds out of every 2 min just so it procs once...that's what I don't understand.

IPS: I totally get the Manyshot + Blitz/UFury angle. But I'm having a hard time justifying the high initial DEX investment if bows are only used 1/6th the time.

For the eSoS version the 2 Monk is just for the feats, correct? Looks like a typical Reflex save will be mid-30s, which might as well be 0 for EE. I'm toying around with Fighter instead of Monk for the STR and tactics enhancements, which would allow me to eek out another +2 Stunning Blow DC.

[scoobmx]

I love this concept for a self-healing melee, but why Zen Archery and IPS?

Zen Archery: The Sun Soul earth stance proc is cool. But to take a feat for 20 seconds out of every 2 min just so it procs once...that's what I don't understand.

IPS: I totally get the Manyshot + Blitz/UFury angle. But I'm having a hard time justifying the high initial DEX investment if bows are only used 1/6th the time.

For the eSoS version the 2 Monk is just for the feats, correct? Looks like a typical Reflex save will be mid-30s, which might as well be 0 for EE. I'm toying around with Fighter instead of Monk for the STR and tactics enhancements, which would allow me to eek out another +2 Stunning Blow DC.

You wouldn't benefit from A Dance of Flowers on bows without Zen Archery, when it is fixed in the future. Since there's no benefit now that it is bugged I don't see a need to be centered.