The Juggernaut - Prime of the Warforged

[Bacab]

Long time player here...

I have 3 toons that are "geared" and by "geared" I mean they were awesomely geared back at 20 Cap...

I have come back to the game...and I really don't have a TON of time to play.

So I have chosen to turn my "main" into this build.

My main was a Clonk with a ton of caster lives backing him up. My clonk also has a buncha other melee lives as well...

So rather than turn my pure Arty into a Jugg...I chose to convert my Clonk into one...since I really can only play one toon at a time...and I will be pretty close to completionist when I TR this guy (if I TR him out of being a Jugg)

Anyway...I have a Raider Box...
Unsure which weapon I should pick...

Sireth
Breach
Pinion
Cleaver


Pros and Cons for Each

Sireth= I love the Q-Staff animation...it really seems like a really nice weapon...I like to stay centered...though may change that...CON is the Walking Stick is really good as well

Breach= I like Falchions...but I am unaware how good/great this weapon is

Pinion= Seems AMAZING for pew pew pewing....but I don't know if anything else has come out as good

Cleaver= I have a Carnifex and we all know Carnifex is the best weapon in game!

Ok seriously, I am not really close to obtaining an ESOS so that was the big melee weapon before I left...unsure if it still the case (I would think so).

Anyway...thoughts?

BTW...I am leveling it currently and having a BLAST!

P.S. I mainly am considering Sireth (looks awesome!) or Pinion (Many shot is awesome)...unsure if people even run Caught in the Web anymore?

[era42]

Sireth= I love the Q-Staff animation...it really seems like a really nice weapon...I like to stay centered...though may change that...CON is the Walking Stick is really good as well

Sireth is awesome. The main attraction is tier 5 enhancements from either rogue or monk qstaff trees, so for juggernaut, it's not quite as good. Also, it's bad against undeads due to the slash/pierce damagetype.

Breach= I like Falchions...but I am unaware how good/great this weapon is

Not that great. Not horrible, but no way near first pick.

Pinion= Seems AMAZING for pew pew pewing....but I don't know if anything else has come out as good

This would be my pick if I were you. There is no other bow that comes even close. I think the second best bow around for high-damage archer is the level-14 bow of sinew.

Cleaver= I have a Carnifex and we all know Carnifex is the best weapon in game!

Cleaver is good, I hear. But, there are several 2-handers available for regular 2h builds, only one quarterstaff for quarterstaff builds and only one bow for shooting. If you run web/fot, you might not get this, but you probably will get one of them. For a juggernaut build, this is probably better than sireth, but I personally would still go sireth before this, especially if you ever do a proper staff-build.

[Bacab]

Yeah, I did a Thief-Acrobat custom build back at level 20 cap (so before the new enhancement pass). I think I did 13ROG/6MNK/1RNG for sprint boost

I recently finished a 13ROG/5MNK Q-Staff build (did the hold level 18 till level 20...then TRed into this).

The only thing I found lacking from my 13ROG/whatever build was having to UMD Reconstruct scrolls. Quickened Recon is just so nice to have

[Jeromio]

Cleaver is good, I hear. But, there are several 2-handers available for regular 2h builds, only one quarterstaff for quarterstaff builds and only one bow for shooting. If you run web/fot, you might not get this, but you probably will get one of them. For a juggernaut build, this is probably better than sireth, but I personally would still go sireth before this, especially if you ever do a proper staff-build.

I think you also might want to consider if you plan to stay centred or not. For a centred jugg, Sireth is probably the best choice.

[Bacab]

I think you also might want to consider if you plan to stay centred or not. For a centred jugg, Sireth is probably the best choice.

Yeah, been having fun while leveling...I suppose I will change my mind a few times lol.

At first, I stay centered and used the Chieftan's Spear.

Now that I have my ranger levels...I have Martial Weapon Prof...and I am using a Carnifex. Plus I re-specced out of Q-Staff and reallocated my AP into WF and Haste Boost from Tempest.

I also suppose, I can use my old Epic Weapons and run Caught in the Web a few times...maybe I get lucky and get a Pinion or a Sireth. Whichever I get first, I will use the box to grab the other?

Or I can think even crazier...what if I finally pull an ESoS Shard?

[Jeromio]

I also suppose, I can use my old Epic Weapons and run Caught in the Web a few times...maybe I get lucky and get a Pinion or a Sireth. Whichever I get first, I will use the box to grab the other?

This would be a very wise choice. The only problem is that CitW is not run as much any longer, so it might take a while. With the upcoming new raids it might be run even less in a couple of weeks.

[jakedamus]

Long time player here...


Anyway...I have a Raider Box...
Unsure which weapon I should pick...

Sireth
Breach
Pinion
Cleaver

I have been epic reincarnating between a centered Epic SoS build and a centered Sireth build.
Bladeforged Fighter 8/Monk6/Paladin6
With proper enhancements the Sireth out damages the ESOS.

Cleaver is a poor man's ESoS. Sireth out performs that too.

Juggernaut works best being centered - hell 'centered' is the 'new toughness'. Take Sireth go centered get a 80 PRR and 80 Acc by early Epic levels. Tank stuff and do EE solo.

Sireth is also a simple weapon so you will be able to use it on other lives.
Did you get two boxes? If so take a Pinion as well.

[Nodoze]

I have been epic reincarnating between a centered Epic SoS build and a centered Sireth build.
Bladeforged Fighter 8/Monk6/Paladin6
With proper enhancements the Sireth out damages the ESOS.

Cleaver is a poor man's ESoS. Sireth out performs that too.

Juggernaut works best being centered - hell 'centered' is the 'new toughness'. Take Sireth go centered get a 80 PRR and 80 Acc by early Epic levels. Tank stuff and do EE solo.

Sireth is also a simple weapon so you will be able to use it on other lives.
Did you get two boxes? If so take a Pinion as well.

For those DPS builds doing Monk 6 for Shadow Veil it looks like in testing that 'Sting of the Ninja doesn't work with Sireth. Probably something to due with the line of "if the weapon normally deals slash or pierce damage" it is taking it as a blunt q-staff weapon'. Just something to be aware of that eSoS and Cleaver both can easily leverage.

[aristarchus1000]

If forced into a choice, I'd probably take the Pinion first, because there is no good replacement or alternative. The second best bow is far inferior.

Sireth is very nice, and would be my second choice. It is a simple weapon so it is more "future proof" for any future builds. Being centered or monk/acrobat makes it even better. However, the Commendation staff is actually quite good, and a reasonable alternative, and probably close enough for centered builds.

Cleaver is the best of the non-centered builds, but I just feel like it has the greatest risk of being out-classed as new weapons come out. It has a normal crit profile, for starters, and those weapons seem to get outclassed faster than expanded crit weapons like Pinion, Sireth, and eSoS.

EAG is a great weapon, and useful since you can use it starting at level 20 (useful for epic reincarnation). I think it is still worth farming.

[NaturalHazard]

The battle engineer tree kind of looks meh to me atm, in terms of dps what am I missing? I mean in comparison to just playing kensei centered monk and now rogue monk stick fighter. What could I be missing in terms of the dps potential of this class? Maybe wouldn't be so bad if it was a staff user and had some centered monk goodness?

it does get boosts that is good.

[Catas]

I am sure I prob missed it somewhere in the 49 pages of posts on this thread but has anyone put together a post U19/20 Two Handed Pally build?

I would like to go Qstaff for centered but wasn't sure how old Haek's original Pally build on the first page was.

Thanks.

Catas

[Azriel_Angelus]

one other factor is that BF start at -2 dex instead of -2 wisdom. that can make it a bit more difficult with a BF to boost your stats enough to get both combat archery and zen archery, if going with a centered monk build.

don't know if anyone else pointed this out but its driving me crazy. The BF don't have a penalty to cha, BF have a -2 penalty to both dex and wis

[Tilten]

Thought I'd tack on my own.
I'm thinking of twisting in Turn Undead so I can put Divine Might to use. Thoughts? Is it worth it to lose Sense weakness or Primal Scream?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 16 Artificer) 
Hit Points: 294
Spell Points: 845 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 18
Will: 22

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         14                    19
Intelligence         12                    16
Wisdom                8                    11
Charisma             12                    15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    14
Bluff                 1                     3
Concentration         2                    32
Diplomacy             1                     3
Disable Device        5                    30
Haggle                1                     4
Heal                 -1                     1
Hide                  2                     5
Intimidate            1                     3
Jump                  3                    11
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         2                     5
Open Lock             6                    31
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                5                    13
Search                5                    27
Spellcraft            1                     4
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                n/a                   9
Use Magic Device      5                    26

Level 1 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 4 (Artificer)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Adept of Forms


Level 7 (Artificer)


Level 8 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Rapid Shot


Level 9 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 10 (Artificer)


Level 11 (Artificer)


Level 12 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Bow Strength
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Artificer)


Level 14 (Artificer)


Level 15 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 16 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 17 (Artificer)


Level 18 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms


Level 19 (Artificer)


Level 20 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Thinking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Thinking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Thinking (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Power Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Power Attack (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Power Attack (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcanotechnician (Art) - Arcanotechnician (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcanotechnician (Art) - Energy of Creation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcanotechnician (Art) - Energy of Creation (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcanotechnician (Art) - Energy of Creation (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcanotechnician (Art) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcanotechnician (Art) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcanotechnician (Art) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Battle Engineer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Infused Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Infused Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Infused Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Field Engineer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Field Engineer (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Field Engineer (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Battle Engineer (Art) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Clever Monkey (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Contemplation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Contemplation (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Contemplation (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)

[Thayion516]

Ok so it's been a while sense I've looked into a jugg because I didn't have the gear or sireth. I got the items I need now tho and am wondering for an updated pally version. I assume the use of Divine Might is good for us now? How about Master of Forms with center?

I'm not the best at building and matching feats so could I get a level progression with feats for a sireth and pinion using jugg, centered version with pally please?

Seems fitting in manyshot will be difficult due to less free feats then the ranger version?

[Thayion516]

This is what I've came up with. Feats are TIGHT!!! I was looking for maxing [W]Dice and Multipliers.

Paladin Centered version with Master of Forms for Earth stance (+1 multiplier to crits).
Manyshot with Pinion
Imp Blunt with Sireth
Can use Divine Might with twisting in Bane of Undeath.

Only possible open feat is the ED Feat at lv 28. Took First Blood but it was questionable.

Running LD primary destiny with Dance of Flowers, Bane of Undeath, Sense Weakness ... and if the 4rth Twist is open, Primal Scream

Best i can come up with. Opinions? If you see anything that can be made better please post!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

ThayJuggPal 
Level 28 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 16 Artificer \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 404
Spell Points: 1013 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 15
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             18                    29
Dexterity            12                    17
Constitution         14                    19
Intelligence         10                    15
Wisdom               10                    15
Charisma             12                    17

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               1                    12
Bluff                 1                    12
Concentration         2                    13
Diplomacy             1                    12
Disable Device        n/a                  35
Haggle                1                    12
Heal                  0                    11
Hide                  1                    12
Intimidate            1                    12
Jump                  4                    18
Listen                0                    11
Move Silently         1                    12
Open Lock             n/a                  31
Perform               n/a                  n/a
Repair                0                    12
Search                2                    35
Spellcraft            0                    11
Spot                  0                    11
Swim                  4                    18
Tumble                n/a                  n/a
Use Magic Device      3                    34

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 7 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 9 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 10 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 11 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 12 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Bow Strength
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


Level 17 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Adept of Forms


Level 19 (Artificer)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Artificer)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Rapid Shot


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: First Blood

[Thayion516]

Bump for new players. Still the best melee arty build imo.

[Soulfurnace]

Bump for new players. Still the best melee arty build imo.

I was about to disagree, but you said melee arti..

Eh, I'll let it slide.

[pappo]

I was about to disagree, but you said melee arti..

Eh, I'll let it slide.

I am still trying to understand how a build with so many ranged feats ends up as a THF Cleaver toon doing huge DPS.

[Soulfurnace]

I am still trying to understand how a build with so many ranged feats ends up as a THF Cleaver toon doing huge DPS.

The destiny mainly.

Also the str base helps..

[Rubix]

Was tinkering with the first look at the Harper Tree. All the forum hype one way or the other, it may open up some interesting build concepts for the Juggernaut. I don't know if it contradicts the NDA, so I won't put the link to the youtube vid here now, but I will say that the tree (as it stands now - it's bound to change again several times before it hits live) has some interesting synergy with BF Monk 2 / Ranger 2 / Arti 16 build ideas.

Thoughts?