The Juggernaut - Prime of the Warforged

[Varthalos]

With u20 in now i'm wondering if anyone knows if Bladeforged can LR out of that 1st pally level. If so would it be viable to make a Bladeforged version of the 2WF dual Nightmare build and what do people think the best feat/enhancement setup would be for this build?

[Firewall]

I did not try it myself yet but from what the forum (it was tested on Lamannia) and the release notes say it should be possible to LR a Bladeforged to get rid of the Paladinlevel.
I would not advise to dual-wield Nightmares anymore since with U20 they nerfed Life Stealing badly so that it now only has a CHANCE to drain levels on a crit. And this chance is reportedly between 20% and 40% so it is not worth using a build focused on one (badly nerfed) weapon if you ask me.

[Alavatar]

Iconics can LR out of their first level. I saw a Bladeforged pure wizard yesterday in the Hall of Heroes.

[Varthalos]

I would not advise to dual-wield Nightmares anymore since with U20 they nerfed Life Stealing badly so that it now only has a CHANCE to drain levels on a crit. And this chance is reportedly between 20% and 40% so it is not worth using a build focused on one (badly nerfed) weapon if you ask me.

It still seems that the best choice for melee weapons would be dual wielding bastard swords or dwarven axes due to the arti enhancements available up battle engineer. If this is so then even with the nerf are Nightmares still not the weapon of choice? The other choice would be to go back to a 2 handed setup and not take advantage of the enhancements offered in battle engineer or tempest but this seems like a weaker choice, is it not?

[Henky]

It still seems that the best choice for melee weapons would be dual wielding bastard swords or dwarven axes due to the arti enhancements available up battle engineer. If this is so then even with the nerf are Nightmares still not the weapon of choice? The other choice would be to go back to a 2 handed setup and not take advantage of the enhancements offered in battle engineer or tempest but this seems like a weaker choice, is it not?

Nightmare + First Blood EE on off-hand, +15% melee doublestrike? You can drain levels if it proc, and get an extra dps thanks to the doublestrike. And you still have the red slot on the main hand for the Reconstruction slot.

[Choopak]

With u20 in now i'm wondering if anyone knows if Bladeforged can LR out of that 1st pally level. If so would it be viable to make a Bladeforged version of the 2WF dual Nightmare build and what do people think the best feat/enhancement setup would be for this build?

2 questions: why bladeforged over warforged?
is this build still rocking as of now (with changes in enhancements and all)

[Ivan_Milic]

2 questions: why bladeforged over warforged?
is this build still rocking as of now (with changes in enhancements and all)

Because iconics start at lvl 15, so faster way to get to cap than to make new char and start from lvl 7, or tring and from lvl 1.
He made bf jugg because its faster and now he wants to get ranger instead of paladin lvls.
Yes it is, its still great.

[Choopak]

Because iconics start at lvl 15, so faster way to get to cap than to make new char and start from lvl 7, or tring and from lvl 1.
He made bf jugg because its faster and now he wants to get ranger instead of paladin lvls.
Yes it is, its still great.

Oki but is BF, really that better than WF? Seems pretty even to me, excpet for reconstruct SLA.
Hummm still a bit confuse: since U20 (like now) you can TR into an iconic race and restart level 15 (instead of level 1) right? Do you have to be level 20? or 28? Cause i have a WF FvS level 20 (use to be a lord of blade type), willing to respec (love to WF looks and abilities) Also, this toon is a 32 points guy, how many points will he get 34? or 36?
Thanks, and sorry for the noob questions

[Choopak]

Wow i read 12 or so pages and the more i read, the more i get confuse, lol!!!
I just came back from a long absence, how the game changed!!!
I have (had) a level 20 FvS, WF, melee THF. Now i love WF (puny fleshy) and would be happy to TR into another melee/ caster hybrid type. I already have MinII Gaxe,, caster stuff from TOD, and other decent gear. I was looking more for the OP version (with the pally splash) BUT: can't find the proper enhancements (the new format), dunno about all the new fancy weapons Sireth, Pinion, etc... and why you should have both a bow and a repeater. Not close to the TWF version (with ranger) just might require more farming for gear...
finely, i would love to keep it relatively simple, lol, and if possible w/o the need for 6 x +4-5 tomes (1 is doable)
Can a gentle soul help a WF lover

[Ivan_Milic]

Oki but is BF, really that better than WF? Seems pretty even to me, excpet for reconstruct SLA.
Hummm still a bit confuse: since U20 (like now) you can TR into an iconic race and restart level 15 (instead of level 1) right? Do you have to be level 20? or 28? Cause i have a WF FvS level 20 (use to be a lord of blade type), willing to respec (love to WF looks and abilities) Also, this toon is a 32 points guy, how many points will he get 34? or 36?
Thanks, and sorry for the noob questions

I wouldnt know, dont have bf.
Iconic True Reincarnation:
Iconic True Reincarnation is only available for characters currently on an Iconic life.
You must be at the level cap (currently 28, eventually 30) to Iconic True Reincarnate.
By looking at the enhancements bf seems better, sla recon, 12 prr and power of forge, along with everything else wf get.
Bf is a bit better, but not that much.

[kendo]

one downside to going BF would be the -2 to dex instead of chr. with the added levels to 28 and soon to 30, you would have the extra feats and ability level ups to take combat archery pretty easy on the WF. could still do it on the BF but have to make up the -2 dex.

and it would probably take at least a +3 LR to swap out the paladin level(s) to ranger, to get the right sequence of class taken at each level.

but I have been giving it serious thought also as getting reconstruct as a SLA at a much earlier level would be pretty nice as would skipping to level 15.

so along those lines -- are folks playing the ranger version adding in combat archery now? seems like that adds more to the build than anything else after OC

[Ivan_Milic]

one downside to going BF would be the -2 to dex instead of chr. with the added levels to 28 and soon to 30, you would have the extra feats and ability level ups to take combat archery pretty easy on the WF. could still do it on the BF but have to make up the -2 dex.

and it would probably take at least a +3 LR to swap out the paladin level(s) to ranger, to get the right sequence of class taken at each level.

but I have been giving it serious thought also as getting reconstruct as a SLA at a much earlier level would be pretty nice as would skipping to level 15.

so along those lines -- are folks playing the ranger version adding in combat archery now? seems like that adds more to the build than anything else after OC

Could try putting combat archery instead of epic toughness.
I think I will do it when my timer for lr resets.
Actually can put it in even with epic toughness.
But you need +4 and +5 tomes or 2 +4 tomes and put a point in 1 ability.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 Lawful Neutral Warforged Male
(2 Monk \ 2 Ranger \ 16 Artificer \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 488
Spell Points: 969 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 16
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             17                    27
Dexterity            17                    21
Constitution         16                    21
Intelligence          8                    12
Wisdom               10                    13
Charisma              6                    10

Tomes Used
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 2

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               3                    14
Bluff                -2                     9
Concentration         3                    14
Diplomacy            -2                     9
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                     9
Heal                  0                    10
Hide                  3                    14
Intimidate           -2                     9
Jump                  3                    17
Listen                0                    10
Move Silently         3                    14
Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                    10
Search               -1                    10
Spellcraft           -1                    10
Spot                  0                    10
Swim                  3                    17
Tumble                n/a                  n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Artificer)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


Level 4 (Artificer)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Adept of Forms


Level 7 (Artificer)


Level 8 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 9 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 10 (Artificer)


Level 11 (Artificer)


Level 12 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Artificer)


Level 14 (Artificer)


Level 15 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms


Level 16 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Precise Shot


Level 17 (Artificer)


Level 18 (Artificer)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 19 (Artificer)


Level 20 (Artificer)
Feat: (Artificer Bonus) Improved Precise Shot


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Toughness


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target

This is what Im thinking of doing on my centered jugg.
Not so sure about last feat, dont know what else to take, doubleshot is **** when you use bow mostly when manyshotting, pthf is meh, only 10% more glancing blow, could take that, but will try elusive target first.
Holy strike only on vorpal and only on evil targets, pthf does more dmg than holy strike.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

This is what Im thinking of doing on my centered jugg.
Not so sure about last feat, dont know what else to take, doubleshot is **** when you use bow mostly when manyshotting, pthf is meh, only 10% more glancing blow, could take that, but will try elusive target first.
Holy strike only on vorpal and only on evil targets, pthf does more dmg than holy strike.

What about Perfect Two Weapon Fighting. It grants 5% doublestrike to mainhand weapon even if it is a two handed weapon. That's pretty nice.

[Ivan_Milic]

What about Perfect Two Weapon Fighting. It grants 5% doublestrike to mainhand weapon even if it is a two handed weapon. That's pretty nice.

Hm, did you test it?

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Hm, did you test it?

Yes, the feat does apply the doublestrike when a two handed weapon is equipped. I have tested it.

[Ivan_Milic]

Yes, the feat does apply the doublestrike when a two handed weapon is equipped. I have tested it.

Then Im taking that.

[Choopak]

one downside to going BF would be the -2 to dex instead of chr. with the added levels to 28 and soon to 30, you would have the extra feats and ability level ups to take combat archery pretty easy on the WF. could still do it on the BF but have to make up the -2 dex.

and it would probably take at least a +3 LR to swap out the paladin level(s) to ranger, to get the right sequence of class taken at each level.

but I have been giving it serious thought also as getting reconstruct as a SLA at a much earlier level would be pretty nice as would skipping to level 15.

so along those lines -- are folks playing the ranger version adding in combat archery now? seems like that adds more to the build than anything else after OC

Well if you take the OP version (with pally) you're much better off with bladeforged, no more - 2 CHA!! If you use the ranger, TWF version, then regular WF seem better...
Anyone tried both version? Sorry if it has been answered already (it is 45 pages long)

BTW: starting as a pally (with BF), does this hurt the build badly? or you just loose a bit of skills and that's it?

[Firewall]

Oki but is BF, really that better than WF? Seems pretty even to me, excpet for reconstruct SLA.

Aside from the Reconstruct SLA which is quite awesome since it only costs 25 SP instead of 45 SP including Quicken and not sharing a cooldown with the spell so you can use both one after another don't forget:

-10% Slashing damage. When you take Slashing damage, you gain +1 PRR for 3 seconds (up to +20 PRR)

which is a nice addition to survivability.

[voodoogroves]

Aside from the Reconstruct SLA which is quite awesome since it only costs 25 SP instead of 45 SP including Quicken and not sharing a cooldown with the spell so you can use both one after another don't forget:

-10% Slashing damage. When you take Slashing damage, you gain +1 PRR for 3 seconds (up to +20 PRR)

which is a nice addition to survivability.

It also has a straight up PRR enhancement.

[Firewall]

It also has a straight up PRR enhancement.

The PRR Enhancement requires the Adamantine Body feat which most Juggernauts and even most other warforged don't take in favor of being centered for the benefits of mountain stance (which includes even more PRR) and having more Dodge bonus.

Another nice addition though if you take the Weapon Attachment is that you can gain Adamantine and a stacking Racial Seeker +2 on an attached weapon. Warforged on the other hand get one more +10 HP enhancement.