The Juggernaut - Prime of the Warforged

[Lurzifer]

Well to compare this Melee Build to a Shiradi sorc/wiz is totally stupid to begin with.

To say Artificers are there for buffing everyone else, is stupid to begin with as well.

Coming to a build discussion and having no clue whatsoever what youre talking about well, go figure.

Haek

[Illiamfryn]

I would like you to compare this build with a 17 cleric/ 2 fighter/ 1 monk or druid (for rams might). Full strength build dps purpose.

Also it would be great if you posted a video of this build as a Fury ED so as to see the differences.

I like the concept but would really like to compare him with my 17/2/1 melee cleric. Moreover we all know that Blitz is working best when one is soloing. Please post a vid on fury if possible, and one using an epic sos.

Kindly requesting, not demanding. Thanks anyway

[Lurzifer]

Will give the request to one of the five esos juggs in my guild, since i dont have it -.-

[cdr]

You know your build is good when madmatt70 cares enough to come in and tell you that it's garbage and his dwarf copy of your build is clearly superior.

[Sonos]

Someone can heal themself on a pally or even with silver flame pots so how is this build really better then those or something like an 11 ranger 9 monk that can heal themselves close to at will and do all this stuff with more dps so how is this guy better then that in anyway. Basically its yahoos can not heal themselves so they need a mother hen to repair all the other yahoos..

Earlier you were asking how this build would benefit a party. Seems to me that it can do the dmg output AND offer a few decent party buffs. So which is it again?

You do not operate in a party very efficiently as in add something to the group or what have you.

Have you been let down by a Jugg? Were you sold a bill of goods and it let you down? Call our law offices at Dwarvenstein and Dwarvenstein. We'll fight for you!

But seriously, have you had problems with one of these "abominations" in your group? (It could happen easily, you have to be able to play it well too.)

[Orratti]

You can slap 2 pal/2 monk or 2 rgr/2mnk or 2 pal/2 rog or 2 rgr/2 rog on just about anything and make it work well and be versatile. Other than caster dcs and maybe max str not alot of drawbacks to any type of build gaining evasion and huge saves or gaining twf, evasion, and 1/2 the qualifiers to manyshot. Always nice to see someone catch on though.

[Sonos]

It's just nice to see an Arti being used that isn't just runearm xbow. It was intended to have melee build capabilities too and this hacks the code.

+1 to the OP

[Orratti]

It's just nice to see an Arti being used that isn't just runearm xbow. It was intended to have melee build capabilities too and this hacks the code.

+1 to the OP

I'm afraid I have to say this but only because the reverse is always so quickly thrown out there that I can't help myself.

If you want an archer that is melee capable build a ranger.

Pretty sure that it has been said that if you want to build a strict archer then build an Artificer.

and now back to topic

[Lurzifer]

I'm afraid I have to say this but only because the reverse is always so quickly thrown out there that I can't help myself.

If you want an archer that is melee capable build a ranger.

Pretty sure that it has been said that if you want to build a strict archer then build an Artificer.

and now back to topic

Rangers have **** selfhealing compared to jugg. Check.
Can an ranged xbow arti deal 120k dmg in 20 secs? I doubt it.
Does Ranger get any bonus to stunning blow or trip besides rams might with a wooping +1? Dont think so.

This build doesnt specialize at anything but does everything at a level that is almost specialized. And thats the catch my forum friend.
So if you want a character that is very useful in groups, extremly self sufficient, high dps in melee and ranged, can do traps and survive basically everything thrown in his way, well then you dont make a ranged arti or a ranger: You make a juggernaut.

And before you start with ranger can self heal too blablabla, nothing comes close on selfhealing than a reconstruct that hits for 450-470 base.

I rest my case, come back if you find a flaw or way to improve instead of jealous trashtalk. Ty and good night.

[Orratti]

Rangers have **** selfhealing compared to jugg. Check.
Can an ranged xbow arti deal 120k dmg in 20 secs? I doubt it.
Does Ranger get any bonus to stunning blow or trip besides rams might with a wooping +1? Dont think so.

This build doesnt specialize at anything but does everything at a level that is almost specialized. And thats the catch my forum friend.
So if you want a character that is very useful in groups, extremly self sufficient, high dps in melee and ranged, can do traps and survive basically everything thrown in his way, well then you dont make a ranged arti or a ranger: You make a juggernaut.

And before you start with ranger can self heal too blablabla, nothing comes close on selfhealing than a reconstruct that hits for 450-470 base.

I rest my case, come back if you find a flaw or way to improve instead of jealous trashtalk. Ty and good night.

Actually there is a pic on an old thread of mine of a ranger healing himself for 689 hps. I would link it if I was savvy to how to. I could give you the name of the thread though and you could see it for yourself. Sorry to get your skivvies in a bunch just pointing out the obvious about class mixes and being humorous about previous forum postings. Sleep well.

[WruntJunior]

Actually there is a pic on an old thread of mine of a ranger healing himself for 689 hps. I would link it if I was savvy to how to. I could give you the name of the thread though and you could see it for yourself. Sorry to get your skivvies in a bunch just pointing out the obvious about class mixes and being humorous about previous forum postings. Sleep well.

Problem with that amount of self-healing on a ranger is that it's not something you'll get every time. That's what I like about the heal and reconstruct spells: you can depend on at least an exact amount, and if it crits oh well, that's extra. With a cure spell or the like, you may roll especially badly or especially well.

Edit: Looking at that picture, it was a crit, with your average being much lower. That's like saying my sorc hits for 15k because energy burst hit for that once under perfect circumstances. >_>

[emptysands]

Actually there is a pic on an old thread of mine of a ranger healing himself for 689 hps. I would link it if I was savvy to how to. I could give you the name of the thread though and you could see it for yourself. Sorry to get your skivvies in a bunch just pointing out the obvious about class mixes and being humorous about previous forum postings. Sleep well.

Google was pretty quick:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=306940

It's not really a good comparison for WF vs Fleshie in this situation. While WF have less benefits than they did before, they still have some positives.

A WF arty with a Heal scroll and as good heal amp, would also be doing pretty well. CL11 +5 = 16 => max 150 HP * 175% (scroll mastery IV). Gives 262 base heal.

[Viisari]

Actually there is a pic on an old thread of mine of a ranger healing himself for 689 hps. I would link it if I was savvy to how to. I could give you the name of the thread though and you could see it for yourself. Sorry to get your skivvies in a bunch just pointing out the obvious about class mixes and being humorous about previous forum postings. Sleep well.

3 past lives.

That healing is with both feats, the above listed enhancements, a Dragontouched vestment with 10 & 20% healing amp, and Gauntlets of Eternity for that nice crit. A bit more gear and I could push it over 1000 for stunt healing like that.

So 35 spell points just for metamagics + spells normal cost and that's not even quickened yet which would total 45 SP just for metas. Also two item slots one of which is extremely sub-optimal.

My own terribly undergeared jugg reconstructs for about 430-450 hp atm and crits for ~1100 hp about 20% of the time if I recall right. This is while in dps gear and it's quickened while using less spell points than the ranger. Doesn't require any paladin past lives either. Now add to this that the ranger is using three feats to be able to use such cures reliably in any difficult content, jugg only has quicken for metas.

You know well thought out criticism is always nice but this is just you being silly, how about you think a little bit before talking the next time.

[Orratti]

Problem with that amount of self-healing on a ranger is that it's not something you'll get every time. That's what I like about the heal and reconstruct spells: you can depend on at least an exact amount, and if it crits oh well, that's extra. With a cure spell or the like, you may roll especially badly or especially well.

Edit: Looking at that picture, it was a crit, with your average being much lower. That's like saying my sorc hits for 15k because energy burst hit for that once under perfect circumstances. >_>

True it was a crit however the poster did say that he wasn't going all out as well. He could have done better if he had seen a need. Doesn't really matter though does it? Even without a crit it's enough. Either way it's not worth getting angry over is it.

[Sonos]

I'm afraid I have to say this but only because the reverse is always so quickly thrown out there that I can't help myself.

If you want an archer that is melee capable build a ranger.

Pretty sure that it has been said that if you want to build a strict archer then build an Artificer.

and now back to topic

OR if someone wanted to build a ranger, they would build a Ranger.

Thanks for the insight though. Super helpful.

Ranger- Here is some Camoflauge, barkskin, and some longstrider. Wewt!

Arti- Here is some Deadly Weapons, Metal types, alignment types. Armor buffs, Stoneskin, blur, raise dead, GH, GT... et al.

[aradelothion]

Not sure if this was asked and answered already; if so pardon the mindfart, I got sidetracked by all the hate posts =/ Anyway, assuming one doesn't have completionist, what would be the past lives you'd say are most beneficial?

[Pilgrim1]

Just out of curiosity, how is the arti platform better than wiz or sorc?

It seams to me that arti gets traps, umd, feets, and +2 attack/dmg. While compared to a wizard or sorcer who also gets much more spells and mana (PW stun, dance, displacment, haste, rage - not to mention dots and other no-save damage)?

It seams to me that you put the self sufficient platform of arti with some nice 2/2 splashes and leveraged it with a melee destiny. So how is this better than a melee/ranged caster?

PS. i like the build idea, don't take this as an attack.

Edit: Hell, you could take the caster platform and jump into shariy champion destiny and be a jugernaught/champion - seams the best of both worlds...
mmm... maybe ill try to make that, it sounds crazy fun.

[Orratti]

OR if someone wanted to build a ranger, they would build a Ranger.

Thanks for the insight though. Super helpful.

Ranger- Here is some Camoflauge, barkskin, and some longstrider. Wewt!

Arti- Here is some Deadly Weapons, Metal types, alignment types. Armor buffs, Stoneskin, blur, raise dead, GH, GT... et al.

Actually I only stopped to post in this thread because I smelled blood in the water. I took a break on the game for a few days and hung out on the forums. You post a few things and defend those posts for a few days and you get a little angry? Predacious? Defensive? I think I will just go with unfriendly.

Shouldn't have bothered to post as the only thing I care about artificers is that they carry deadly.

No matter the particulars of the build it is obviously going to be very capable given the class split and the soloability of just the main class. I'm glad you are happy with it and feel it worthy of sharing. That means it is able to do what you wanted and that is what counts.

[Machination]

Logic 101: do not compare apples to oranges

Propaganda 101: compare fresh apples to rotten oranges, deduce that all oranges tainted, and convince the public to burn all the oranges

Now what was this wizard spell casting vs. arti melee/ranged comparison all about anyway?

Bah and you have not obviously seen a real shiradi warfoge wizard because otherwise we would not be having this conversation. Anyone can heal themselves the rest is what makes a build.

[Machination]

Maddmatt,

You really should have a closer look and perhaps even play one. I just got mine to lvl 17 and well I have played pure ranger, ranger rogue, ranger monk rogue, ranger monk, and so far I can honestly say, there is a difference.

Knowing how scroll healing only goes on EE, i.e.: stupid UMD lag bug, interrupts, jumping around while swapping to scroll, and on and on, I can tell already that this will be far superior to play when capped. I could be wrong.

You talk about yahoos repairing yahoos, well you make a very good point that when there are multiple builds like this and with the shiradi wiz/sorc that you enshrined in your other post, there is a big synergy in mass repairs and able to spot repair. How would that work with a bunch of yahoo ranger monks that you describe as superior? Any synergy there?

Someone can heal themself on a pally or even with silver flame pots so how is this build really better then those or something like an 11 ranger 9 monk that can heal themselves close to at will and do all this stuff with more dps so how is this guy better then that in anyway. Basically its yahoos can not heal themselves so they need a mother hen to repair all the other yahoos..